robocam

My 06 MT w/103k miles just started acting funny yesterday. I was doing a full-throttle 1-2 shift, and for some reason, the dogteeth ground during the upshift into 2nd. Then I noticed that from then on, it was difficult to shift into 1st from a stop. I tried another full-throttle 1-2 shift, and the shift was fine with no grinding. Any idea what's wrong?

Here's what I've noticed. If the car is standing still, the first attempt to get it into 1st is difficult, but after I get it into first, I can take it in and out of 1st smoothly. If I release the clutch pedal while in neutral and depress it again and then try to shift into 1st, it is difficult again. I assume this is because the plate is moving again since I just engaged it to the engine. Sometimes there is a little difficulty engaging 2nd gear after shifting out of 1st, and remember, this is all while the car is standing still.

I'm running the GM friction modified fluid (since about 25k miles ago). I wonder if the synchros are beginning to wear out. Is the only way to fix this to replace the gearsets? I think my clutch is beginning to go too. I've noticed that recently, it's been more difficult to chirp the tires shifting from 1st to 2nd.

So here's where I need advice. Should I have the Acura dealer replace the clutch and replace the gearsets, or should I bring it to a transmission shop? I doubt the local Acura dealer here has ever opened an MT transmission before, so I don't know if I trust them. It would seem logical to assume that a transmission shop should know best based on experience. They've seen so many transmissions, but then I don't want them to forget to plug something back in, so that's where Acura should know best.

I'm also thinking about replacing the transmission fluid to see if that fixes anything.

Is there anything else in the transmission that I should ask them to replace other than the clutch and gearsets?

Thanks in advance.

cpm06wdptl

It sounds to me like it is solely a clutch issue. When the clutch is starting to wear thin it will cause difficult shifts. I would get the clutch replaced and see if it is still having the same problem. Don't over diagnose things. If a light bulb goes out you replace the light bulb not the entire wiring harness. Start small. The clutch will be a lot cheaper than getting the tranny rebuilt

robocam

That's an interesting theory. Can you tell me how the clutch might cause difficult shifts? Thanks

ez12a

Do the fluid before making your next decision. Could even be a failing clutch cylinder.

robocam

You're right. I should change the fluid first. Wouldn't a failing clutch part cause problems in all the gears?

ez12a

it could, in my old 93 integra a spring popped out of the clutch disk and got in the way of the clutch movement so it would never really fully disengage. I had all sorts of hard shifts until this was fixed. I'm not entirely sure how the TL clutch disk is designed. I dont think it has the dampening springs like the integra did.

how far is the clutch pedal engagement from the floor?

robocam

I was thinking about your question about how far the engagement is from the floor, and then this happened to me today.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/6mt-couldnt-shift-into-1st-neutral-clutch-pedal-also-sometimes-feels-stiff-838736/#post13362458

Did you suspect any of these symptoms?

I wonder if simply replacing the clutch will fix everything or if other stuff needs to be replaced. I don't want the dealer to replace the clutch master cylinder when it isn't bad and then tell me I need something else replaced.

robocam

I'm again thinking about having my manual transmission worked on. I'm at about 108k miles (was at 103k when I first posted about this).

I had the clutch/flywheel replaced at 104k miles along with new GM friction modified fluid. It's still not smooth going into 1st sometimes, so I have to push the shifter with more force to get it into gear.

Also, once in a while when I make a high-RPM 1-2 upshift, the dogteeth grind, and I can't get it into gear right away. It's as if something in the synchro is worn. This also started happening to my previous car as the transmission got older.

What I was thinking about doing was to call transmission shops around town to see how much they would charge to replace the gear sets related to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Should they replace all of them since they're in there already?

Do you think that would fix the problem? Are the synchros part of the gear sets? Or can the synchros be replaced without replacing entire gear sets?

What other parts should they replace while the transmission is open?

Thanks in advance.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Here is what's available from the factory

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

^Yeah, the synchros can only be replaced with the corresponding whole gearset. The 1st/2nd gearset will probably solve your problems. I would think that a clutch problem would manifest in all gears, rather than only in 1st and 2nd.

You should try calling/emailing Honda of America to see if they will supply the 3rd gearset free of charge, if you pay for the labor, since there is a known problem (TSB).

Also, I would ask the shop (Aamco or Acura dealership) if they have torn apart a Honda 6MT; you might have better luck at a Honda dealership. I believe the Civic SI and S2000 have similar transmission internals.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

On the CL side, the high-RPM 1-2 upshift grind issue could be reduced/eliminated by removing the clutch damper; however, on the clutch master cylinder parts breakdown for the 06 TL-6, said clutch damper appears to have been eliminated, so that is a dead end.

If you have the transmission cracked to replace the 1st/2nd gearset, and being at 108K, it would be prudent to have the differential bearings replaced as well.

NVA-AV6 mentions in other threads that the differential bearings on the Honda MT's are prone to wear.
#7 & #8 on the link below:

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

In addition, whomever you have work on your transmission, try to make sure, within reason, that they are familiar with these trannys. Reason being is that there are all kinds of lash/preload adjustment steps that need to be carried out during the rebuild that have a direct affect on longevity.

Good Luck!

robocam

When I first bought my 06 TL used at 77k miles in 09, I brought it to my dealer to see if they would perform the 3rd gear replacement under goodwill (it says in the TSB that this repair may be eligible for goodwill consideration). They told me they would not do it under goodwill and basically said that I might want to try again after I've spent more money (which is understandable and they said it in a nice way). Well, it's 30k miles later now, and after my head repair is done, I will have spent over $5000 at that dealer. I asked them if they could ask Acura again, and they told me that my 3rd gear has to act up again in order for them to make that request. This means I have to drain the GM fluid and put in Honda fluid to see if my 3rd gear acts up again. This is such a hassle. I wish they could use the original diagnosis from 2+ years ago.

Didn't Honda modify their manual transmission fluid to reduce the 3rd gear problem? I wonder if it will be as easy to prove I have the 3rd gear problem with the new Honda fluid. I guess the only way to find out is to try it. I'm just asking myself if this is worth all the hassle. What if they still turn me down? Then I would have wasted $45 worth of GM fluid and all this time plus maybe an $82 diagnostic fee.

My reason for going with Aamco is because I figured a transmission shop would have far more experience working on transmissions. I asked a specific Aamco about their transmission builder, and they told me he has over 20 years of experience. The dealer I go to barely sees MTs (maybe 1% of the TLs they see are MTs), and I doubt they have to work on many of their transmissions at all. When I brought it in for the 3rd gear issue, it seemed like they didn't really know about it.

Plus there's also the difference in cost. 12.9 hours at $90/hour vs $136/hour. That's a $593 difference. Well, come to think of it, that's not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Maybe I'll call the dealer for a quote tomorrow. But then I think you can buy a lifetime warranty for Aamco's work. Decisions decisions.

mynameisraj

I always shift into second then into first at a stop. Are you doing this? I have always had trouble in any car shifting directly into first, so this has become habit for me.

No idea about the shift to second, but I figured I'd chime in with this tip for when you're stopped.

robocam

That's interesting. Before, I had no problem shifting into first. Now, I have difficulty shifting into 1st even when I'm not moving.

Acutron

Not sure who all is experiencing this issue, but my woes started when I had the 3rd gear TSB done. Gears 1 - 3 were notchy, then when I got the car back after 3rd gear TSB, the car would not shift into 1st or 2nd. So I left the car there another 10 days. I also have gear whines in 4th, 5th between 2000 and 2500 RPMS. Since I got the car back I still have trouble shifting into 1st gear, I now have a gear whine in 2nd, 4th, and 5th, and have a case open with Acura client relations becasue this is flat out bull shit. I now have to take the car out of town to another dealership as I refuse to go back to my local one. I gave the my car and explained the issues, not I will admit 3rd gear feels OK, but that is besides the point. My car is an 08 Type S but same parts as far as the transmission. I will update after Wednesday if it's worth it. Where I stand now a car with not even 32,000 miles on it should not have these type of issues. I made that point very clear with client relations. We will see, as I have the feeling I will be waiting with baited breath.

robocam

Sorry to hear that. This is exactly what I'm afraid of. How's it doing now? Was the other dealer able to fix it?

Acutron

So it's currently at the other dealership. has been there since last Wednesday. They say they can hear the gear whines but they are 'subtle' . Which is BS b/c I can hear with with the stereo on. They say they are unable to duplicate the issue except when the tech does not fully engage the clutch. Which I could not believe she would tell me that. As if I don't know how to drive the damn car. I am waiting for them to get back to me today and I will go form there. I can't believe they would waste so much of my time and theirs when they could have just replaced the damn hear box and this could be over and done with. Looks like this is the last shitty Honda product I ma buying because I 100% guarantee you that if Acura would be upfront about this car's issues, they would not have sold as many as they did. I am finally figuring out that the 'S' in TYPE S stands for SHIT.

nothome17

Tell me about it, I have a Type Shit to and it has been nothing but a bottomless money pit. Honda Quality has gone down. Honda has had transmission problems for years now starting back from the 90's where people have had to use GM Sychromesh to fix tranny issues.

robocam

Were you able to have it fixed?

robocam

Well that dreaded day has finally come.

I just wanted to link my previous transmission thread (this one) to my new one with an update on the details and cost of the repair.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/any-idea-whats-wrong-my-manual-transmission-06mt-898561/