phatbastard

I have a 06 TL with only 24,000 miles and the clutch shit the bed. I was driving normal and got this burning smell and then noticed my car was near impossible to get into gear. Luckily i was a mile from the house and was able to drive in 1st gear to home.

Acura tore my car apart and originally told me that the seal for the msater cylinder leaked and caused this problem and is covered under warranty. Now they are stating that this was not the problem and my clutch is burned along with housing and the flywheel and are now trying to make it sound like it was my fault and brings the warranty into question.

The service advisor said he would call an acura rep to come out and look at the car tomorrow and make a decision. Honestly I baby this car and know it couldnt be my fault, but sounds like they are trying to back pedal out of the first reason why this problem happened. Any ideas on what to do?

1fsthatch

damn good luck

laidback93

That sucks. Keep us posted.

phatbastard

My service adviser called an acura rep because any time its something with normal wear and tear they have to run it through acura for a warranty repair. The service adviser said its never good when the acura rep wants to actually look at the car. He will be out on Friday to look at the car.

I think its strange when they tell me the master cylinder leaked and caused this and now since it is such an expensive repair they are trying to blame me for it...

lusid

f'n dealerships.. goodluck man

6spMike

My 06 failed at 18k miles, I couldn't get it in gear. I bought it new.
I never got the burning smell, but when they took it apart the clutch had heat marks.
They replaced it under warranty after I was very nice and asked why the clutch wouldn't release enough to get it in first gear when it wasn't worn past the service limit.
Mine was engaging very close to the floor before this happened.
It seems OK now at 40k, but it still makes me nervous. I baby the car too.

bimmerman

When the clutch engages closer to the floor does this indicate it is worn? Mine is not at the floor but it is pretty low. I did not think it was abnormal as all my Civic were like that and so was a 6 spd Accord I drove.

01tl4tl

The gen3 TL has a very trick clutch- $2500 to replace the complete system!
The pressure plate is made so it self adjust inside as it wears down and the pedal feel stays good till the last shift- then it stops and does what you describe
Most cars get weak pedal to let you know!

Its possible the tech found evidence of low clutch fluid and checked the master and slave for leaks for loss of pressure during activation-
the rubber valves inside may have failed and/or leaked causing insufficient pressure to the clutch

Acura has a prob with things in the trans and with the clutch, so the reps are checking them out to find the problem and fix it for you, and everyone else

I have seen these go out as low as 18k- when the former owner was 18~

01tl4tl

note- dont sit with your foot on the clutch at stoplights or stop and go traffic- that will burn and eat expensive parts
Use it and let it rest

BMT62688

i just got my clutch replaced and my flywheel was resurfaced on my 05 tl it was 1310 for that at an acura dealer

SouthernBoy

The only major part that will suffer a shorter life from this activity is the release bearing. But you're right. It is not a good thing to do at all.

SouthernBoy

No, not necessarily. I own an '04 manual and an '05 automatic (the wife's). When I bought my '04 manual, right away, as in while sitting on the dealer's lot, I noted that initial engagement begins very early in the clutch pedal travel. Just to clarify things, pedal travel is the distance the clutch pedal moves from the point of full depression (hitting the stop pad) to full release. Take up is the distance it travels from the point of initial engagement to full engagement, something which should always be shorter than the travel. The TL clutch pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup with initial engagement on every one I've driven, starting early in the travel.

Symptoms of the onset of a worn clutch are; no toe play, slipping, odor, a loss of that "grabbyness" feel one senses in a normal clutch.

NedShneebly

holding pressure on the shifter isn't good either.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I just got my clutch and flywheel replaced, but I'm boosted. Stock lasted for 4 years of which 2.5 were s/c. Total for parts was $754.80 from Tim @ HAW and that included clutch, FW, and T/O bearing. Total for labor was $1119.98 for 12 hours. That included changing out the clutch and fw, replacing my front cat and spark plugs, and also removing the s/c and putting it back on. Not too bad if you ask me.

SouthernBoy

Right.

Resting your hand on the shifter, and forearm on the console pad, is Ok as long as you don't move the shifter.. not even a little when the clutch is fully engaged and you are in neutral at a stop. The reason is because moving the shifter moves the synchronizers of the subject gears toward each other so they can begin to match shaft speeds within the transmission. Since this cannot happen when in neutral and stopped with the clutch engaged, all the synchronizers will succeed in doing is wear more material from their mating surfaces.

Very bad thing.

phatbastard

Still waiting on my call, the service adviser said everything was just completely burned. I cant recall all the parts he mentioned but he said something about blue burn marks which he said was really bad.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I had the blue burn marks too.

hamsup

well i know mine aint dead yet...but its slipping into 3rd and 4th and i could go right into 5th before it catches...
well while boosting anyways
driving normal is ok...still not much problems..
but ever since putting the S/C in..i've noticed it wearing out much faster..
at first i thought it was the tranny not able to hold up to the power...but at the same time..its the clutch, not grabbing the power

RC51Ryder

I did not know this. I mainly do it out of habit to make sure I'm in neutral sometimes. This will be a hard habit to break.

SouthernBoy

Yeah, you have to understand what's going on in there to also understand the do's and don'ts of operating a manual transmission. What we have is called a "constant mesh" manual transmission. This is nothing new. The technology is well over 50 years old.

With constant mesh transmissions, when you shift gears, you are not actually shifting gears at all. The gears themselves are always in a constant and fixed position, meshed with other gears. They do not move when you operate your shifter. What you are actually doing when shifting is moving a collar which has dog teeth into a hub which is part of a given gear. This is what transfers power from the input shaft through the gears to the output side of the transmission.

As you start to move your shifter, synchonizers, which are generally made of brass, contact one another and act as small clutches. They help match the speed of the gears so that the collar can smoothly be inserted into the hub. The last step is for the blocker rings to mesh and then the shift can be completed.

So when you apply pressure to a shifter while the clutch is engaged and the transmission is in neutral, the synchronizers of the gear to which the pressure is being applied will contact but will not be able to match shaft speeds because the transmission input shaft is still spinning do to clutch engagement.

Hope this helps. Here's a link that does a pretty good job of explaining things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission

phatbastard

***UPDATE****

So they are going to pay for labor and not the parts. Parts come out to $1400 bucks ouch!!! Seriously though i have owned 4 acuras and this makes me not want to buy another one. At 24,000 miles i dont care what happens they should pay for it....

They lost a acura customer on this one because i honestly didnt do a damn thing to burn a clutch and I have owned 6 cars that were all standard.

RC51Ryder

I wouldn't pay. Maybe you could talk to someone at Acura/Honda corporate. Keep going until you get the answer you want.

bimmerman

With mileage that low I would be fighting if having to pay one dime.

phatbastard

Wow I am fighting this and just spoke with an acura service person. She told me they took pictures of my car and had a feeling I would be calling. You are not going to believe this she told me they took pictures of my tires and it looks like I needed new tires and they suspect I was racing the car because my tires were really low on tread. I have low profile tires and installed them when my car had about 50 miles and my car now has 24,500 miles and i lived in the hot desert of vegas for 2 years with those tires. Yes its melts the tires, but even so at 24,500 miles low profile tires are about shot, your lucky to get 30,000 miles.

I cant believe they implied I was racing the car because my tread wear is low on the tires. I am royally pissed!

NedShneebly

Man, maybe the economic impact has got dealers reverting to their dirtiest tactics. I've heard average new car is selling anywhere from 15-25% below MSRP. They're hurting, dude. You're going to have to work that much harder not to get shafted.

01tl4tl

they took pictures so engineers can see if its a factory level problem thats going to cause many clutches to fail
IN order to appear generous in the whole matter- knowing you wanted them to pay more,,,they looked for evidence you hot rod the car and may have actually been the source of wear. But they generously hooked you up -this time
That would also help the engineers to dissect the prob.

Be sure to keep your foot off the pedal when its not in use- vegas traffic being pretty heavy, pushing the pedal causes wear, holding the pedal causes wear.
Use the brakes to slow the car down,
the transmission is for being in the correct gear to apex on the torque band/throttle and accellerating off the corner

Note good sticky tires are lucky to last 20-30k miles, look at the treadwear rating on the tire- 320 is low, anything under that is super sticky and 20k is good lifespan

Majofo

M*$%k.. I keep getting error message on posts.. ahh..

anyways.. short and sweet..

They know you want your car back and they're trying to stick it to you. Call Corporate, threaten them that you'll go to the Texas AG Office and file a complaint with their consumer protection agency. Then tell them it is illegal for them to not repair a car fully under warranty if you can prove routine maintenance since you are protected under TX Lemon Law.

I'd even go further and say you will be finding consultation in the matter and file a suit claiming lost wages and bill them your ATTY fees. Don't let them play games with you.. even if you're bluffing.. they have burden of proof. You need to be prepared to fight!.. they already know they're going to lose if they try.


Remember: IT'S NOT PERSONAL.. IT'S BUSINESS.. (nobody's your friend in this.. except us.. lol)

phatbastard

She asked me questions like how many acuras have I owned in the past did I buy them brand new were they in my name, were they pre-owned etc. I was like what does that have to do with the clutch on this car....

Majofo

that's hilarious.. they're getting a customer history on you. Tell them you've owned 5 Honda products and have never experienced something like this. They know what comes next: "This experience will deter me from buying another Honda product again.. I'm going to get me a LEXUS / INFINITI" lol.. be real cool but remember that no one is your friend in this.

phatbastard

Just got off the phone with them and they tried to play hard ball back. They said do what you have to do mister we are more then generous for paying for the labor. But, I was like yea right and then go ahead and over charge me for parts. They said they would pay for labor if i pay for parts.

I told her basically exactly what you stated in your above post Majofo and she went hesitant but didnt budge and said she would note her account.

Majofo

They're playing the waiting game. The economy is tough but to not do warranty work is outrageous.. I'm SOL cuz my car is 87k but you have a 24k mile car.. totally ridiculous. Don't sweat it.. Try to get this in email correspondence as a burden of proof.. I'm sure most of this is telephonic.

Next move. Get a hold of the Texas AG CPA.. Here's the link:


Main Page: http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
Complaint Page: http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/complain.shtml
BBB: http://welcome.bbb.org/

Lemon Law Main Page: http://www.txdot.gov/drivers_vehicle...aw/default.htm
Lemon Law Complaint Form: http://www.dot.state.tx.us/txdotefor...vletConfig.xml

You should not have to pay $1.4k for something that should be free. I don't know your situation or how difficult it will be for you without your wheels but get informed!

I had to fight a month before getting money back on my deal (dealer sold me a TL with bad tranny-undisclosed). I pressed the A*hole and he eventually gave to save the "good name" of his busines. I let him know that I didn't give a damn about the car and it didn't mean a thing to me if I had to fight him in court for the next year. I'm not a rich guy but remember: THE CONSUMER HAS RIGHTS!!

It hardly cost anything to take this to mediation, and once it has been mediated.. Acura will comply.. I don't see any reason how Acura could win.

Majofo

Here's the BBB Complaint Page:
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx

Both BBB and the TX AG CPA will do mediation. If that doesn't work then you can lawyer up but that can be an expensive risk.

phatbastard

Thanks for the advice majofo...

Majofo

I'm just lending some personal experience. I had a bad feeling in my stomach for some time over my AT tranny, sometimes I wish I asked for more, but once you come to an agreement there's no going back.

I'm here for support, I'm sure there are other Aziner's who can give some good advice. You also may want to ask some experienced tech's in the forum if they have seen this problem before.

btw, were you talking to the service manager at your dealership or the district manager / corporate? Remember it's all business for them, they think you'll be easy because you're young.. but you have ammo.. it's not until you get some reputable people behind you before they may fold..

and for $1.4k you can get an independent shop to do it labor included I bet, and warrantied (but def not recommended on a warrantied car).

phatbastard

Well i was talking to the service manager from the dealership and i was also talking to corporate. Corporate is the one that told me about tires being worn, we are more then generous for paying for labor. How many acuras have you owned? In all honesty the guy from the dealership said i dont care who pays me i am getting paid either way, now over the phone he sounded like he was on the customer side but no telling what he said to the corporate acura rep.

Todays was the first day to talk to corporate and they will not budge.

phatbastard

Well i am hoping to just pay the 1.4k and then be reimbursed later on after fighting this. The car has been at the dealership for almost 2 weeks now and they cant even provide a loaner at the moment because they say the are all backed up because of recalls what rubbish...

Majofo

IMO.. if you have alternate wheels.. I'd get it out of there and to your house. File for mediation with TX AG. It should be a done deal within a month or two.

Believe me.. if you pay for it you have no leverage.. They are banking on you just paying instead of fighting. I know it is a HUGE hassle but I would contest it with the AG Office & BBB.

American Honda budgets for warranty and goodwill claims. In a downturn / bad economy they are tight wads.. like an insurance claims adjuster.. the service mgr / business mgr job is to save money. But if BBB or the TX AG slaps their hand, they'll play nice.

btw.. that service mgr is a real d1ck.. "i don't care who pays me".. what an a$s..

robocam

I'm curious to know what ended up happening here.

nj2pa2nc

I am quilty of keeping my foot on the clutch at stoplights-Owned numerous vehicles with manual transmission-most of them had way over 100K miles. Never had to replace the clutch (knock-on-wood) My 06 6MT tsx has over 120K problem free miles.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

After 2 1/2 years wonder if he's still around.

Keeping the clutch pedal depressed when stopped for an extending period of time doesn’t cause a problem with the disc, but just remember, both the throwout bearing and pilot bearing are spinning constantly while doing this.