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Bringing this one way back from the dead. I was reading up on this because i've finished doing a 2008 3.2L swap in my 2008 Honda Element. The years may be the same, and a lot of the functionality transitioned over nicely but there are some things that didn't. One being some of the cluster features/functionality. The 2007-2011 Element, like the 2004-2006 do a lot of its communication (not functionality) over a line going to a multiplex control unit (MCU) aka UART Transceiver. This includes a number of things like the SRS (airbags), odometer, and a few other things that people mentioned earlier. The 2007-2008 and probably later models replaced the multiplex control unit communication with Canbus (CAN-H and CAN-L). While the 07-11 Element and 04-06 TL have that same canbus communication lines available, they were only sending a limited amount of information over it, for example RPM, Speed, etc.
The crazy part is, the systems could be working 100%, but since the communication packets are missing from the canbus transmission, it tells the ECU that something is wrong which then takes it as facts and reports CELS, ABS Lights, VSA lights etc. As someone mentioned, they appear to only communicate status to their respective places, but function as a completely isolated system. Take the ABS system for example, my ABS and brake (EBFD) lights are on in the Element cluster because I swapped the Element ABS module/pump with the TL one, which had a different plug that I re-pinned. The old pump sent communication over the multiplex line, the TL pump sends it over canbus. However, I took the car out on a rainy day to bleed the air past the ABS pump and it worked without any problem when i nailed the brakes. Knowing that the system was in tact and functioning I tried clearing the ABS/brake lights on the cluster by jumping pins 4 and 9 on the OBD port, ignition on with brake pedal down, wait for abs light to turn off, off pedal, wait for light to turn on, press pedal down, then two blinks and those lights are supposed to go off. But because the cluster gets its information about the ABS status from the mulitplex unit, that didn't even work - the lights just came on and stayed on. So I wired in an 07 cluster by tapping into the plug going into the Element cluster, just power, ground, can-H and can-L (so two clusters at the same time). I did the same exact procedure to clear the ABS/brake lights and it worked on the TL cluster, those lights turned off, but same outcome on the Element cluster.
The airbags are the same story. On the Element cluster there is no problem, but on the TL cluster the airbag light is on. I looked up the wiring schematic and sure enough, the 07-11 Element SRS computer uses a communication line to the multiplex unit, but the 07-08 uses can-H and can-L. Surprisingly all other wires and sensors are identical between the Element and TL, so I can be 100% certain the same goes for the 04-06 and 07-08 TL. The only wires that are different are the multiplex wire, and indicator light wires going into the cluster. I'm talking EVERY OTHER WIRE is there. So again, since these critical systems are isolated, they may be 100% working, but if the data isn't where it should be over the right line - the cluster is going to complain about it and you get lights on the cluster and beeps.
So as far as the 04-06 and 07-08 SRS modules being swapable/plug and play, the plugs are the same physically, but those can lines are missing. However, you can simply run can-H and can-L wires from the SRS computer to anywhere else on the canbus network and it'll join the party and the SRS light won't be there anymore or you will be able to clear it if its stored.
So i'm going to pick up an 07-08 SRS computer and do this!
TechMechanic,
⬆️Thanks for that explanation. At the risk of thread jacking, I think I have a couple similar issues with my ‘05 Navi to ‘08 Navi conversion, and part of it is the difference in communication busses between 04-06 and 07-08.
You sound like you are trying to do a swap without any oem schematics or pinouts..
Originally Posted by TechMechanic
Bringing this one way back from the dead. I was reading up on this because i've finished doing a 2008 3.2L swap in my 2008 Honda Element. The years may be the same, and a lot of the functionality transitioned over nicely but there are some things that didn't. One being some of the cluster features/functionality. The 2007-2011 Element, like the 2004-2006 do a lot of its communication (not functionality) over a line going to a multiplex control unit (MCU) aka UART Transceiver. This includes a number of things like the SRS (airbags), odometer, and a few other things that people mentioned earlier. The 2007-2008 and probably later models replaced the multiplex control unit communication with Canbus (CAN-H and CAN-L). While the 07-11 Element and 04-06 TL have that same canbus communication lines available, they were only sending a limited amount of information over it, for example RPM, Speed, etc.
The crazy part is, the systems could be working 100%, but since the communication packets are missing from the canbus transmission, it tells the ECU that something is wrong which then takes it as facts and reports CELS, ABS Lights, VSA lights etc. As someone mentioned, they appear to only communicate status to their respective places, but function as a completely isolated system. Take the ABS system for example, my ABS and brake (EBFD) lights are on in the Element cluster because I swapped the Element ABS module/pump with the TL one, which had a different plug that I re-pinned. The old pump sent communication over the multiplex line, the TL pump sends it over canbus. However, I took the car out on a rainy day to bleed the air past the ABS pump and it worked without any problem when i nailed the brakes. Knowing that the system was in tact and functioning I tried clearing the ABS/brake lights on the cluster by jumping pins 4 and 9 on the OBD port, ignition on with brake pedal down, wait for abs light to turn off, off pedal, wait for light to turn on, press pedal down, then two blinks and those lights are supposed to go off. But because the cluster gets its information about the ABS status from the mulitplex unit, that didn't even work - the lights just came on and stayed on. So I wired in an 07 cluster by tapping into the plug going into the Element cluster, just power, ground, can-H and can-L (so two clusters at the same time). I did the same exact procedure to clear the ABS/brake lights and it worked on the TL cluster, those lights turned off, but same outcome on the Element cluster.
The airbags are the same story. On the Element cluster there is no problem, but on the TL cluster the airbag light is on. I looked up the wiring schematic and sure enough, the 07-11 Element SRS computer uses a communication line to the multiplex unit, but the 07-08 uses can-H and can-L. Surprisingly all other wires and sensors are identical between the Element and TL, so I can be 100% certain the same goes for the 04-06 and 07-08 TL. The only wires that are different are the multiplex wire, and indicator light wires going into the cluster. I'm talking EVERY OTHER WIRE is there. So again, since these critical systems are isolated, they may be 100% working, but if the data isn't where it should be over the right line - the cluster is going to complain about it and you get lights on the cluster and beeps.
So as far as the 04-06 and 07-08 SRS modules being swapable/plug and play, the plugs are the same physically, but those can lines are missing. However, you can simply run can-H and can-L wires from the SRS computer to anywhere else on the canbus network and it'll join the party and the SRS light won't be there anymore or you will be able to clear it if its stored.
So i'm going to pick up an 07-08 SRS computer and do this!
Hi Chad, if that reply was for me, the answer is no, I have the schematics for both systems, and all the parts. What I was trying to do was piece it together over a couple weekends because the TL is my only ride.
Ive had the ‘08 Navi drive in it for a while now, PnP as it is. I added the back up camera a couple weeks ago. Yesterday I wanted to swap the 05 touchscreen out for the 08 and maybe the radio too. I repinned the display connector A wires into the 08 22-pin connector. I then realized that display connector E(blue on the 08, green on the ‘05) is exactly the same connector and pinout for both displays, the only difference between the green and blue being the location of one of the alignment rails. Being lazy, I labeled both connectors, cut the rail off the 05 connector.
However, the 08 display will not come on, nor will the hvac controls work.
as I don’t have the time this weekend to do the rest of the swap(XM Receiver, HFL Module and the new comms wiring, I was hoping I could just install the display and radio, but I don’t know if they will function without the rest of the ‘08 hardware.
Anyone know if this is possible?
if not, I’ll take a night this week and build the wiring for the HFL module and XM receiver and try to do it all in one shot next weekend.
Thanks for any help or advice
John
Last edited by JohnGreen; 06-30-2019 at 11:46 AM.
Reason: Adding info
Probably have your connectors reversed. There is some wrong information on the web. haha
Originally Posted by JohnGreen
Hi Chad, if that reply was for me, the answer is no, I have the schematics for both systems, and all the parts. What I was trying to do was piece it together over a couple weekends because the TL is my only ride.
Ive had the ‘08 Navi drive in it for a while now, PnP as it is. I added the back up camera a couple weeks ago. Yesterday I wanted to swap the 05 touchscreen out for the 08 and maybe the radio too. I repinned the display connector A wires into the 08 22-pin connector. I then realized that display connector E(blue on the 08, green on the ‘05) is exactly the same connector and pinout for both displays, the only difference between the green and blue being the location of one of the alignment rails. Being lazy, I labeled both connectors, cut the rail off the 05 connector.
However, the 08 display will not come on, nor will the hvac controls work.
as I don’t have the time this weekend to do the rest of the swap(XM Receiver, HFL Module and the new comms wiring, I was hoping I could just install the display and radio, but I don’t know if they will function without the rest of the ‘08 hardware.
Anyone know if this is possible?
if not, I’ll take a night this week and build the wiring for the HFL module and XM receiver and try to do it all in one shot next weekend.
Thanks for any help or advice
John
If I remember correctly, the FCAN is already connected to the 05 TL speedometer. But the Control of the airbag light is operated on the 05 with a dedicated wire between the SRS unit and the speedometer. The 05 SRS sending unit does not send the "airbag off" signal to the speedo on the FCAN. It sends it on that dedicated wire. So, for the TL conversion, all you need to do is install a 07/08 SRS unit, install the new speedo, and re-pin the 05 connector that plugs into the SRS unit so that the SRS unit is also plugged into the FCAN. Just make sure the SRS unit and the Speedo are both on the FCAN and it will work. So you need to run a new wire or 2 from the SRSunit to any place on the FCAN bus. A bus is a bus. You can be anywhere on it and it work. But don't reverse the FCAN + and -. Because it will set off the VSA after you drive. It wont give any errors just sitting and idling, but when you start driving the VSA light will Pop on. This happens when a device on the FCAN bus (in this case the SRS unit) and the +/- are reversed. It creates a conflict or miscommunication. As for the Honda Element, I have no idea how it works because I do not have those schematics..
As far as differences between the "bus protocol" between the 05 and the 08.. They are the same. Just maybe a different name. The TL also has a B-CAN. stands for Body-Control Area Network. I never have touched that.. even with TPMS. ( i think.)
Originally Posted by TechMechanic
Bringing this one way back from the dead. I was reading up on this because i've finished doing a 2008 3.2L swap in my 2008 Honda Element. The years may be the same, and a lot of the functionality transitioned over nicely but there are some things that didn't. One being some of the cluster features/functionality. The 2007-2011 Element, like the 2004-2006 do a lot of its communication (not functionality) over a line going to a multiplex control unit (MCU) aka UART Transceiver. This includes a number of things like the SRS (airbags), odometer, and a few other things that people mentioned earlier. The 2007-2008 and probably later models replaced the multiplex control unit communication with Canbus (CAN-H and CAN-L). While the 07-11 Element and 04-06 TL have that same canbus communication lines available, they were only sending a limited amount of information over it, for example RPM, Speed, etc.
The crazy part is, the systems could be working 100%, but since the communication packets are missing from the canbus transmission, it tells the ECU that something is wrong which then takes it as facts and reports CELS, ABS Lights, VSA lights etc. As someone mentioned, they appear to only communicate status to their respective places, but function as a completely isolated system. Take the ABS system for example, my ABS and brake (EBFD) lights are on in the Element cluster because I swapped the Element ABS module/pump with the TL one, which had a different plug that I re-pinned. The old pump sent communication over the multiplex line, the TL pump sends it over canbus. However, I took the car out on a rainy day to bleed the air past the ABS pump and it worked without any problem when i nailed the brakes. Knowing that the system was in tact and functioning I tried clearing the ABS/brake lights on the cluster by jumping pins 4 and 9 on the OBD port, ignition on with brake pedal down, wait for abs light to turn off, off pedal, wait for light to turn on, press pedal down, then two blinks and those lights are supposed to go off. But because the cluster gets its information about the ABS status from the mulitplex unit, that didn't even work - the lights just came on and stayed on. So I wired in an 07 cluster by tapping into the plug going into the Element cluster, just power, ground, can-H and can-L (so two clusters at the same time). I did the same exact procedure to clear the ABS/brake lights and it worked on the TL cluster, those lights turned off, but same outcome on the Element cluster.
The airbags are the same story. On the Element cluster there is no problem, but on the TL cluster the airbag light is on. I looked up the wiring schematic and sure enough, the 07-11 Element SRS computer uses a communication line to the multiplex unit, but the 07-08 uses can-H and can-L. Surprisingly all other wires and sensors are identical between the Element and TL, so I can be 100% certain the same goes for the 04-06 and 07-08 TL. The only wires that are different are the multiplex wire, and indicator light wires going into the cluster. I'm talking EVERY OTHER WIRE is there. So again, since these critical systems are isolated, they may be 100% working, but if the data isn't where it should be over the right line - the cluster is going to complain about it and you get lights on the cluster and beeps.
So as far as the 04-06 and 07-08 SRS modules being swapable/plug and play, the plugs are the same physically, but those can lines are missing. However, you can simply run can-H and can-L wires from the SRS computer to anywhere else on the canbus network and it'll join the party and the SRS light won't be there anymore or you will be able to clear it if its stored.
So i'm going to pick up an 07-08 SRS computer and do this!
Probably have your connectors reversed. There is some wrong information on the web. haha
I thought the same thing at first, especially with 2 identical 22P green connectors, but I verified they were pinned properly and attached to the proper plugs.
looks like I’ll have to add the ‘08 HU in order to get the display to operate.
Mill repin the factory radio harness to the 08 40-pin connector while I do the laundry and see if that takes care of it.....hopefully. I think it should, I’ll just lose the HFL until I swap it and the XM receiver out next week.
Are you saying you do not have the 08 Main Display? (What is HU according to the Helm book?)
Originally Posted by JohnGreen
I thought the same thing at first, especially with 2 identical 22P green connectors, but I verified they were pinned properly and attached to the proper plugs.
looks like I’ll have to add the ‘08 HU in order to get the display to operate.
Mill repin the factory radio harness to the 08 40-pin connector while I do the laundry and see if that takes care of it.....hopefully. I think it should, I’ll just lose the HFL until I swap it and the XM receiver out next week.
No, I have everything for the 08. Touch screen Display, cd changer/radio(or HU/Head Unit), Navi drive, HFL/Bluetooth module and all the 08 connector pigtails for every piece of hardware.
The 04-06 display has a 14 pin and a 22 pin connector. The 07-08 display has two 22 pin connectors. Connector “E” is a blue 22 pin on the 08, and a green 22pin on the 06. They are wired exactly the same, but the green connector on the 04-06 doesn’t fit because one of the alignment rails is different, however you can shave that rail off with a razor blade and it will fit the 08 display. Connector “A” on the 04-06 is 14 pins. the 07-08 uses a 22pin connector”A” this has to be changed, but it’s easy because the Order of the wires is exactly the same, only the spacing of the wires is different in the 22pin connector
I think I bought a radio that had a pigtail from an 08.. So I used that connector and used some of the little wires below and plugged them into my OEM harness . That way I did not cut the harness.
These are male to female.. but they make them male to male too. And Fry's electronics sells them too. You can also just make it "Male to Blunt" by cutting and stripping the wire in the middle.
This way you can plug right into the hardness. And secure it with duct tape. sounds cheezy but it works. Or you can just cut your oem harness.
12-25-2014, 01:22 AM
