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Ahh, I see. If you don't have another flywheel to compare, the J32 crank mating surface to clutch mounting surface should be 54 mm distance.
Wow, that actually helped a lot. Thanks. There's only one problem: the distance on my flywheel is exactly what you specified, so I'm a bit lost. By any chance, maybe you also know what the gap is between the ring gear and the engine block?
Ahh, I see. If you don't have another flywheel to compare, the J32 crank mating surface to clutch mounting surface should be 54 mm distance.
Love the car BTW, I have a 2005 Acura TL 6 speed, and the clutch will start to slip in only on a spirited 2nd to 3rd shift, or 3rd to 4th. However not in any other gear or during normal driving, instead of spirited. I plan on getting a new clutch, and it is a weekend car, not my daily, but I am stuck with what I want and what I can afford. Do you have a recommendation, I would love to upgrade flywheel to Single Mass, but that takes the total up into the $1200+ range. I found a clutch that would work with the stock flywheel, but do you think is worth it, or just continue to save up? I will be using the car for spirited driving on the weekends, and some local circuit racing every now and then.
Can I combine this clutch with my stock OEM flywheel, and be just fine for now? At least until I get money to upgrade flywheel, but then I won't be able to use this clutch with a single mass flywheel....would I?
Wow, that actually helped a lot. Thanks. There's only one problem: the distance on my flywheel is exactly what you specified, so I'm a bit lost. By any chance, maybe you also know what the gap is between the ring gear and the engine block?
You haven't ruled out the new pressure plate yet.
Put the pressure plate on the flywheel without the disc and measure the total stack-up height, from the crank mating surface of the flywheel,
to the part of the pressure plate that sticks out the furthest. If it's more than 93 mm, then the pressure plate is interfering with the clutch case.
You haven't ruled out the new pressure plate yet.
Put the pressure plate on the flywheel without the disc and measure the total stack-up height, from the crank mating surface of the flywheel,
to the part of the pressure plate that sticks out the furthest. If it's more than 93 mm, then the pressure plate is interfering with the clutch case.
I actually went with the stock PP, so it should be all good. I reckon a quick grind should fix everything
Love the car BTW, I have a 2005 Acura TL 6 speed, and the clutch will start to slip in only on a spirited 2nd to 3rd shift, or 3rd to 4th. However not in any other gear or during normal driving, instead of spirited. I plan on getting a new clutch, and it is a weekend car, not my daily, but I am stuck with what I want and what I can afford. Do you have a recommendation, I would love to upgrade flywheel to Single Mass, but that takes the total up into the $1200+ range. I found a clutch that would work with the stock flywheel, but do you think is worth it, or just continue to save up? I will be using the car for spirited driving on the weekends, and some local circuit racing every now and then.
Can I combine this clutch with my stock OEM flywheel, and be just fine for now? At least until I get money to upgrade flywheel, but then I won't be able to use this clutch with a single mass flywheel....would I?
Have you removed the check valve in the clutch slave cylinder? If yes, then have you swapped the clutch master cylinder with one that doesn't have a delay valve?
Few Honda/Acura V6 enthusiasts are aware of the CMC delay valve. Fortunately there is a direct swap available without the delay valve. Honda part number 46920-S5A-G06.
You haven't ruled out the new pressure plate yet.
Put the pressure plate on the flywheel without the disc and measure the total stack-up height, from the crank mating surface of the flywheel,
to the part of the pressure plate that sticks out the furthest. If it's more than 93 mm, then the pressure plate is interfering with the clutch case.
So do you maybe by any off chance know the gap between the ring gear and engine block? I'll take the flywheel in for a 1-2 mm grind tomorrow, and I'll factor in 0,5 mil difference to compensate the thickness of the clutch disc (so that they grind the PP mounting surface 0,5 mil less than the friction surface).
So do you maybe by any off chance know the gap between the ring gear and engine block? I'll take the flywheel in for a 1-2 mm grind tomorrow, and I'll factor in 0,5 mil difference to compensate the thickness of the clutch disc (so that they grind the PP mounting surface 0,5 mil less than the friction surface).
Have you removed the check valve in the clutch slave cylinder? If yes, then have you swapped the clutch master cylinder with one that doesn't have a delay valve?
Few Honda/Acura V6 enthusiasts are aware of the CMC delay valve. Fortunately there is a direct swap available without the delay valve. Honda part number 46920-S5A-G06.
I am doing the check value delete on the slave cylinder this weekend, and planning on grabbing the Master cylinder without the delay value tomorrow. So will have both of those knocked out this weekend, then installing Tien Flex Z Coilover kit - Shunk2 Camber kit next weekend. But what are your thoughts on the Dual Mass flywheel combined with the FX350 from Clutch Master? Or again should I save and get a single mass lightweight Flywheel?
If you are using the stock flywheel, then just use a stock clutch kit. If you aren't boosted, then you don't need a beefier clutch.
Some people think they need an uprated clutch if they are going to do some track events, but that's a misconception. The clutch
clamping load and friction coefficient simply need to handle the engine torque. A track event could potentially cause more heating
of the clutch components, but it depends on several factors. The disc material is probably the most significant factor when it comes
to heat dissipation. Some companies utilize discs with Kevlar, but it comes at a cost. The engagement is more aggressive, meaning
it's more "bitey" and is kind of annoying to drive on the street. I personally prefer organic material as it has a smooth engagement.
If you are using the stock flywheel, then just use a stock clutch kit. If you aren't boosted, then you don't need a beefier clutch.
Some people think they need an uprated clutch if they are going to do some track events, but that's a misconception. The clutch
clamping load and friction coefficient simply need to handle the engine torque. A track event could potentially cause more heating
of the clutch components, but it depends on several factors. The disc material is probably the most significant factor when it comes
to heat dissipation. Some companies utilize discs with Kevlar, but it comes at a cost. The engagement is more aggressive, meaning
it's more "bitey" and is kind of annoying to drive on the street. I personally prefer organic material as it has a smooth engagement.
Ok, no I am not boosted, just minor bolt on's and then plan on adding some more, but the TL shouldn't get over 300hp without boosting. I just want something that can take punishment on the track but run like a daily, as long as it can hold up for another 60k and the quick 2 to 3 shifts. This stock clutch lasted 104k, so not bad I say... So I am going to check the stock Flywheel, (which should be fine) and replace the clutch set, with a decent OEM like Exedy. Isn't LUK also OEM or am I wrong? Just as long as it
The stock clutch and flywheel are made by LuK. Most, if not all, stock clutch kits are just re-branded LuK parts.
Your current clutch may be fine. Evaluate it after replacing slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder.
You haven't ruled out the new pressure plate yet.
Put the pressure plate on the flywheel without the disc and measure the total stack-up height, from the crank mating surface of the flywheel,
to the part of the pressure plate that sticks out the furthest. If it's more than 93 mm, then the pressure plate is interfering with the clutch case.
Hey man. Can I ask you a question? Is it possible to replace the clutch fork without removing the box on our 6-speeds?
I don't know. I've always had the fork/release bearing installed before mating the trans up to the engine. Maybe someone else knows?
I actually tried doing it yesterday, the fork can, in fact, be removed through the hole in the clutch case, but it seems to be impossible to detach it without sliding the release bearing away from the transmission. So I'm gonna say no.
Have you removed the check valve in the clutch slave cylinder? If yes, then have you swapped the clutch master cylinder with one that doesn't have a delay valve?
Few Honda/Acura V6 enthusiasts are aware of the CMC delay valve. Fortunately there is a direct swap available without the delay valve. Honda part number 46920-S5A-G06.
Dude thanks for the part number!! So the 01-05 Civic manual CMC has the same design and shape as our TL's or any other 1st gen Acura RSX and TSX for that matter minus the diaphragm... nice!
Suprised to see that the honda part actually costs more then the original Acura CMC but I'll look into how this unit compares to the Ktune CMC. I'll ask them who makes their CMC's for them.
A word of caution about using the non-damped CMC. The damper is there for NVH. Without it you will experience pedal buzz. If you have a dual-mass flywheel (stock) then it's minimal.
If you have an aluminum flywheel such as an Aasco flywheel, then it could be objectionable. I have an Aasco flywheel and it's a bit annoying at higher revs, but I can live with it. The overall
shifting process is much more precise without the damper. Generally speaking, the damper slows down pressure increases/decreases, thereby greatly reducing vibration transmitted through
the pressurized fluid.
A clutch with higher clamping load will result in the damper slowing the pressure increase/decrease even more and may result in the trans not wanting to go into gear and thus missed shifts.
Some people experience this even with a stock clutch, so a non-damped CMC is advantageous for spirited driving and racing. You just have to decide if you can tolerate the pedal buzz.
The Civic CMC is made by Nissin and can be found through aftermarket parts retailers such as Partbull for much less. I can verify that the Adler part is in fact a Nissin part.
The outlet fitting on the non-damped CMC sits lower, so a bit of clutch line tweaking is needed. Actually, quite a bit of tweaking, but it fits fine. Just make sure it clears the brake booster
and doesn't touch the body. It's isolated for a reason. I highly recommend removing the brake booster. It makes the CMC swap substantially easier.
When you describe the potential clutch pedal buzz, are you referring to a 4-Cylinder car or a car like the TL with a V6 motor? I ask because I can imagine a huge difference in vibrational impulses between the two; what with the classic "torque reversals" of 4-cylinder/4-stroke engines being rather severs and such torque gaps in 6-cylinder/4-stroke engines being virtually eliminated.
A word of caution about using the non-damped CMC. The damper is there for NVH. Without it you will experience pedal buzz. If you have a dual-mass flywheel (stock) then it's minimal.
If you have an aluminum flywheel such as an Aasco flywheel, then it could be objectionable. I have an Aasco flywheel and it's a bit annoying at higher revs, but I can live with it. The overall
shifting process is much more precise without the damper. Generally speaking, the damper slows down pressure increases/decreases, thereby greatly reducing vibration transmitted through
the pressurized fluid.
A clutch with higher clamping load will result in the damper slowing the pressure increase/decrease even more and may result in the trans not wanting to go into gear and thus missed shifts.
Some people experience this even with a stock clutch, so a non-damped CMC is advantageous for spirited driving and racing. You just have to decide if you can tolerate the pedal buzz.
The Civic CMC is made by Nissin and can be found through aftermarket parts retailers such as Partbull for much less. I can verify that the Adler part is in fact a Nissin part.
The outlet fitting on the non-damped CMC sits lower, so a bit of clutch line tweaking is needed. Actually, quite a bit of tweaking, but it fits fine. Just make sure it clears the brake booster
and doesn't touch the body. It's isolated for a reason. I highly recommend removing the brake booster. It makes the CMC swap substantially easier.
Ya i noticed that the connector that goes into the cmc carried different part numbers between the civic and TL units. hmm ill have to drive my non dampened J32 Accord with the aluminum flywheel and UR crank pulley and see if it buzzes don't remember anything of the sort standing out, but I'll revisit her and see. good tip on the brake booster removal. the TL CMC removal seems more difficult then my CG Accord chassis.
i'll go look up the part on partbull then, i was also considering an Exedy unit for like $30shipped.
How did you go about verifying that the adler part was indeed made by Nissin? was their Nissin name stamped on it or some other way?
Last edited by Accord_V6_400m; 06-20-2018 at 05:29 PM.
When you describe the potential clutch pedal buzz, are you referring to a 4-Cylinder car or a car like the TL with a V6 motor? I ask because I can imagine a huge difference in vibrational impulses between the two; what with the classic "torque reversals" of 4-cylinder/4-stroke engines being rather severs and such torque gaps in 6-cylinder/4-stroke engines being virtually eliminated.
J37 and J32.
The Civic CMC outlet fitting is the same except for the thread. The Civic has a 12mm fitting on the clutch line and all the damped applications have a 10mm fitting.
It's probably a good idea to get a new fitting if doing a CMC swap.
The Nissin logo is cast into the CMC body. I bought one from a Honda dealer and one from Partbull. They are identical and both made by Nissin.
Here is what it looks like with the non-damped CMC:
Last edited by Euro-R_Spec_TSX; 06-20-2018 at 05:39 PM.
The Civic CMC outlet fitting is the same except for the thread. The Civic has a 12mm fitting on the clutch line and all the damped applications have a 10mm fitting.
It's probably a good idea to get a new fitting if doing a CMC swap.
The Nissin logo is cast into the CMC body. I bought one from a Honda dealer and one from Partbull. They are identical and both made by Nissin.
Here is what it looks like with the non-damped CMC:
Ah cool so ordering the Adler part will net me a Nissin CMC. Awesome job with that picture got to give it to you for the details and quality pics you provide.So the Civic CMC has a larger opening with the corresponding Civic clutch line connector being larger to of course accommodate this while maintaining the same thread diameter and pitch needed for the stock TL clutch line fitting I assume or did you modify something on the line side as well?
Ever take apart the stock CMC to see how the internals look like? I plan on doing so when put in the Civic master.
The two connector fittings are the same on the end that inserts into the CMC. The threaded fittings on the clutch line are different between the Civic and the damped applications.
I still have the original CMC but haven't taken it apart.
The Civic connector fitting is the black one, both are aluminum. The new CMC will come with a new seal but you will need another U-clip. You should install the connector fitting
into the CMC before installing in the vehicle because it's impossible to get at the U-clip end to spread it apart once installed.
The two connector fittings are the same on the end that inserts into the CMC. The threaded fittings on the clutch line are different between the Civic and the damped applications.
I still have the original CMC but haven't taken it apart.
The Civic connector fitting is the black one, both are aluminum. The new CMC will come with a new seal but you will need another U-clip. You should install the connector fitting
into the CMC before installing in the vehicle because it's impossible to get at the U-clip end to spread it apart once installed.
Sweet I bought the Adler unit off partbull eagerly waiting its arrival
Would you recommend a new clutch line connector as opposed to reusing the one on the old CMC? Did it get a little stripped in the removal process? Thinking of getting the braided line from the CMC to slave now.
You being in SoCal, your original connector fitting is probably fine. My TSX had 6 winters on it before I bought it, so I always get new parts before working on it just in case.
Below are my notes from the CMC swap (assuming you also remove the brake master cylinder and booster):
Have an ample supply of disposable nitrile gloves, paper towels and brake fluid.
Have some pig-mat or other oil absorbent pads.
Put a plastic bag under the pig-mat as it may saturate and leak through.
Make sure you have a vacuum bleeder to evacuate the reservoirs and lines.
Make sure the tweaked clutch line doesn't touch the body or brake booster.
The new CMC outlet is 0.8" lower and maybe about 5 degrees different angle.
The clutch pedal feels about the same.
Since you have full access to the CMC, you don't need to remove the clutch line.
Just unscrew the line fitting from the connector fitting. Install a new connector
fitting in the new CMC (with new clip) before installing. This is just my recommendation.
You will have to do the line tweaking with one hand as it's very difficult to get both
hands in the cavity, even while laying on top of the engine. You should be able to
finish the whole project in one day, including bleeding the clutch line and brake lines.
You will go through several bottles of brake fluid when bleeding the brakes to get the
air out of the system. I went through almost 4 bottles of Redline RL-600 for the whole
job (clutch and brake system). https://www.redlineoil.com/rl-600
Finally did the master install yesterday! Car shifts beautifully, I can actually spin going into second even with the stock clutch. I ended up replacing the whole line which made install much easier. Didn't take any brake components off. Just involved the stock master and snaked it out backwards. Strut did come out of course.
just need new fluid. Before I did this my third gear started popping out and 4th gear grinds a bit.
the third gear problem is pretty much gone 4th gear is better but still some grind. Going to change out the MTF fluid to a synchromesh fluid.
Disassembled the stock diaphragm and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary at least to me.
would recommend getting a new coupler and u clip to avoid dealing with the corroded stock pieces. That way you can have a ready to go unit that isn't depending on any parts from the old unit.
Yes. Application is AWD. I have driven the car now and everyone works great!
I wanted to know if in the long run , your setup is always perfect ?
I'm getting ready installed a clutch kit and flywheel of J35 in my Tl J37 sh 2010.
I was browsing Heeltoe recently and noticed this super
light looking flywheel.
Does anyone have a review on this? What “stage” is this?
I would be concerned as to how the J-series engine would respond to not having a dampened flywheel. I would be careful that this isn't a flywheel that was designed for another Honda engine that might have the same fitment as J-series, but doesn't require the dampening. Something like the K20C comes to mind.
There really is no such a thing, the term "stage" as it relates to automotive parts is simply a made-up and completely undefined term.
It's stage 2.625.
Why? Because I just arbitrarily made the decision that it is.
And that is the same method that marketing uses for "performance" automotive parts. Because someone with no credentials said that it is.
Why? Because I just arbitrarily made the decision that it is.
And that is the same method that marketing uses for "performance" automotive parts. Because someone with no credentials said that it is.
I think the only "stage" some of us can claim with any authority is "Stage 0". Why? Because some of us have bone-stock cars.
Seems like there will be something offered from the new k20c (civic type R, accord sport 2.0t) that can work.
Are you sure you "love" how overpriced XLR8 stuff is?
I don't care for XLR8 parts. They don't appear to do real engineering when designing there products.
I don't care for aluminum flywheels either, but they are what's available. And AASCO is high quality and well designed.
I've had them machine a couple J-series flywheels for me and I like working with them. FYI, if anyone wants a very nice
clutch/flywheel setup for J-series consisting of a custom AASCO flywheel, Exedy pressure plate and custom high performance
organic disc, then contact me. A member on the forum has a kit that I designed and couldn't be happier with it.
I would really prefer a one-piece CNC machined chrome-moly flywheel like the OEM K20A flywheels on the Type-R engines.
I thought the K20C has a dual mass flywheel? Have you checked one out? Let me know because if you haven't, then I
might have to buy one and analyze it.
I don't object to the notion of a dual mass flywheel as it reduces shock to the drivetrain, but the OEM dual mass flywheels
are incredibly heavy. See my initial posts in this thread. They are around 30 lbs. The aluminum flywheels are around 15 lbs.
I think 15 lbs is too light for the vehicles the J-series are found in. I think 20 lbs would be the ideal weight. Also, the LuK
flywheels have a lot of slop between the masses. At least the J37 dual mass flywheel (made by Exedy) has tension on
the internal springs at all times.
Are you sure you "love" how overpriced XLR8 stuff is?
I don't care for XLR8 parts. They don't appear to do real engineering when designing there products.
I don't care for aluminum flywheels either, but they are what's available. And AASCO is high quality and well designed.
I've had them machine a couple J-series flywheels for me and I like working with them. FYI, if anyone wants a very nice
clutch/flywheel setup for J-series consisting of a custom AASCO flywheel, Exedy pressure plate and custom high performance
organic disc, then contact me. A member on the forum has a kit that I designed and couldn't be happier with it.
I would really prefer a one-piece CNC machined chrome-moly flywheel like the OEM K20A flywheels on the Type-R engines.
I thought the K20C has a dual mass flywheel? Have you checked one out? Let me know because if you haven't, then I
might have to buy one and analyze it.
I don't object to the notion of a dual mass flywheel as it reduces shock to the drivetrain, but the OEM dual mass flywheels
are incredibly heavy. See my initial posts in this thread. They are around 30 lbs. The aluminum flywheels are around 15 lbs.
I think 15 lbs is too light for the vehicles the J-series are found in. I think 20 lbs would be the ideal weight. Also, the LuK
flywheels have a lot of slop between the masses. At least the J37 dual mass flywheel (made by Exedy) has tension on
the internal springs at all times.
I am member mentioned with the the clutch kit he designed. It is on a j36 making 325/287 and holds the power quite nicely with stock pedal feel. It also gets rid of the garbage sac that the stock clutch has. That clutch disc takes up the complete surface area of the flywheel . Amazing quality. Do not hesitate to work with Eric, he knows his stuff!
Because Bense got me curious about the K20C clutch setup...
The K20C in the Accord Sport has a dual mass flywheel, so I have no interest in it.
The K20C in the Civic Type-R has a single mass flywheel and it weighs 19 lbs.
The Type-R flywheel, pressure plate and disc are all made by Exedy. The disc has
a 240 mm OD, same as J-series discs, but the hub is larger diameter and can't be
used with any J-series pressure plates. This is likely due to having only 4 springs.
I prefer a disc with 6 springs as it tends to be more compact. The flywheel will bolt
up to a J-series crank as would be expected since the J-series and K-series share
the same bolt pattern. However, a 5 mm spacer would be needed to get the pilot
bearing at the correct distance. The pilot bearing ID is the same as a J-series, so
it's feasible that the flywheel and clutch setup could be used on a J-series.
Issue 1.
The starter gear on the Type-R flywheel is close to the engine, like the J32A3 and
J30 flywheels (older style clutch case). Also, I don't have a J32A3 flywheel laying
around, so I can't measure the distance from the crank mating surface to the top
of the starter gear.
Issue 2.
The starter gear on the Type-R flywheel has angled teeth, whereas the J-series
flywheels have straight cut teeth.
The short answer to flexer's question is NO. Even if it's determined to be possible
to use the Type-R flywheel and clutch setup on a J-series, it would only be for
the older style clutch case applications.
In order to use the Type-R flywheel and clutch setup on a J-series, the starter
gear would have to be at the correct height after bolting the flywheel onto the
crank with a 5 mm spacer first. Second, the gear on the J-series starter would
have to match the gear on the K20C starter. Although it's possible, it might be
wishful thinking that the K20C starter gear could be swapped onto a J-series starter.
I got some measurements for a J32A3 flywheel and the height of the ring gear is 12 mm. So, with the requisite 5 mm spacer the height would be 17 mm.
The Type-R flywheel ring gear has a 14 mm height. Too much mismatch there, plus the J32A3 has a slightly smaller diameter ring gear. I think it's pointless
to investigate further.
04-05-2018, 07:54 AM
Hey Euro Quick Question
