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From what I read and have been told, the temperatures there are more than they can handle (being right off the head in he stock location)
Everything I've seen is that its a backpressure issue and not the heat. I think AEM has a max exhaust temp of over 1800F. If you are getting to that, your car has other issues.
AEM makes a badass 4 channel digital o2 sensor setup. If you have a v8, you'd use two of them. Unfortunately with our single exit head, we couldn't use it, but the entire idea of it is to have one o2 right off the exhaust port. It has an optional backpressure compensation module as well for FI. They don't mention anything about excessive heat pre-turbo.
However, unless you are using an aftermarket wideband in place of the oem one and sending that signal back to the stock ecu (not sure if that is even possible on the Flashpro since I have no plan to do that), I'd keep the OEM sensors in the stock placement and put a wideband in the downpipe, about 18-20in away from the turbo.
Everything I've seen is that its a backpressure issue and not the heat. I think AEM has a max exhaust temp of over 1800F. If you are getting to that, your car has other issues.
AEM makes a badass 4 channel digital o2 sensor setup. If you have a v8, you'd use two of them. Unfortunately with our single exit head, we couldn't use it, but the entire idea of it is to have one o2 right off the exhaust port. It has an optional backpressure compensation module as well for FI. They don't mention anything about excessive heat pre-turbo.
However, unless you are using an aftermarket wideband in place of the oem one and sending that signal back to the stock ecu (not sure if that is even possible on the Flashpro since I have no plan to do that), I'd keep the OEM sensors in the stock placement and put a wideband in the downpipe, about 18-20in away from the turbo.
This was all pre-hondata work. Aftermarket is only there because I had it and is only used for visual confirmation that I'm in the ballpark.
I can't see any reason to use another O2 sensor even if you could. From what understand, the 5 wire is a proprietary design.
This was all pre-hondata work. Aftermarket is only there because I had it and is only used for visual confirmation that I'm in the ballpark.
I can't see any reason to use another O2 sensor even if you could. From what understand, the 5 wire is a proprietary design.
This is off the Innovate site. I remembered seeing this when I was looking into their stuff. I never measured the temps in that location but I thought I remembered someone saying that it would be close......
Again, a moot point if running Hondata and we all mounted our widebands far away from any heat like that.
The Bosch LSU4.2 wide-band O2 sensor (shipped as part of the LM-1 kit) is rated to operate at an exhaust gas temperature of < 1300 degrees (F), and a sensor housing temperature of < 900 degrees (measured at the bung) for maximum accuracy and control. When either of these operating temperature ranges is exceeded, the sensor can no longer be accurately controlled. Further, operating at or over these temperatures for any length of time can significantly reduce the lifetime of the sensor. The LM-1 is designed to display an error message under these conditions (currently 08- Sensor Timing Error) rather than provide inaccurate readings. For some turbo vehicles, rotary engines, and other setups, this error message can be encountered with annoying frequency.
That must be a limitation on the innovate controller then. The Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor (older model and the improved 4.9 is what should be considered if buying new) has an operating temp of 930 degrees (c) which is 1706 degrees (F). The max temp for a short time is 1030 (c) or 1866 (F).
AEM uses the same LSU 4.2 sensor and their manual states the exhaust temp limit is 1030(c), which corresponds with Bosch's datasheet.
So we installed a deatchworks DW300 rotary fuel pump and wired it with 10 gauge wire to the battery and relay and 10 guage ground from pump to the chassis ground but now we are getting a code for fuel pump module malfunction how did you guys wire your fuel pump ?
I've been wiring like this for a long time but never had a code before
So we installed a deatchworks DW300 rotary fuel pump and wired it with 10 gauge wire to the battery and relay and 10 guage ground from pump to the chassis ground but now we are getting a code for fuel pump module malfunction how did you guys wire your fuel pump ?
I've been wiring like this for a long time but never had a code before
Type S has a fuel pump control module that you don't want to use. I used the existing fuel pump circuit for the 06 and also added the control module to clear that error.
FlashPro now has the ability to disable that 'feature'.
Ok we figured it out the original fuel pump power and ground must run the relay if a ground is run from chassis to the relay it will set a fuel pump module DTC, works good now all 10 gauge wire from battery to inside of the fuel pump module and out to chassis ground here is a diagram of how it is wired
When you were still planning the remote mount, what did you think of for protecting the turbo from road debris? Also, did you think of a solution for driving in wet conditions if the turbo is pulling in air from under the car, wouldn't the amount of water under the car while driving be detrimental to the turbo?
Also, I have been looking at the Comp Turbos, and while they have the oil-less upgrade, those turbos still need water cooling, would running a coolant line there from the engine bay work?
Last edited by maddogtheta; 11-09-2014 at 09:42 PM.
Reason: added content
When you were still planning the remote mount, what did you think of for protecting the turbo from road debris? Also, did you think of a solution for driving in wet conditions if the turbo is pulling in air from under the car, wouldn't the amount of water under the car while driving be detrimental to the turbo?
Also, I have been looking at the Comp Turbos, and while they have the oil-less upgrade, those turbos still need water cooling, would running a coolant line there from the engine bay work?
We were going to go to STS to get the comp turbo they know what housings and wheel size to use, the oiless turbo would need a small electric water pump to circulate the water from the engine to the turbo, we where going to make an aluminium skid plate under the turbo, the air intake fiter would need a box encosing it and pulling air from above the rear subframe so it would not have problems with water, no intercooler is need but we were going to put one in anyway, STS leaves all of the converters in place but we were going to remove the pre cats anf put a spun metallic one if front of the turbo, heat wrap all of the pre turbo pipes to keep as much thermal energy in the exhaust as possible. I think it would have worked very good but my son wanted it under hood so we went that way
We were going to go to STS to get the comp turbo they know what housings and wheel size to use, the oiless turbo would need a small electric water pump to circulate the water from the engine to the turbo, we where going to make an aluminium skid plate under the turbo, the air intake fiter would need a box encosing it and pulling air from above the rear subframe so it would not have problems with water, no intercooler is need but we were going to put one in anyway, STS leaves all of the converters in place but we were going to remove the pre cats anf put a spun metallic one if front of the turbo, heat wrap all of the pre turbo pipes to keep as much thermal energy in the exhaust as possible. I think it would have worked very good but my son wanted it under hood so we went that way
Awesome info! Thanks! I wish I had known about STS before! I'm going to call them and figure out how to get a rear mount turbo into my Type S ASAP It sounds like you and your son already did a lot of research on this, I want to thank you for that as well.
I've already replaced my pre-cats so I don't have to worry about that, and I've got a flashpro for tuning, it's interesting that an intercooler wouldn't be needed, I guess with the intake gas travelling all the way from the rear of the car it has time to cool down. It'd be interesting to know how much of a difference an intercooler would make additionally to the rear mount turbo.
Last edited by maddogtheta; 11-10-2014 at 11:21 AM.
Reason: fix spelling error
Awesome info! Thanks! I wish I had known about STS before! I'm going to call them and figure out how to get a rear mount turbo into my Type S ASAP It sounds like you and your son already did a lot of research on this, I want to thank you for that as well.
I've already replaced my pre-cats so I don't have to worry about that, and I've got a flashpro for tuning, it's interesting that an intercooler wouldn't be needed, I guess with the intake gas travelling all the way from the rear of the car it has time to cool down. It'd be interesting to know how much of a difference an intercooler would make additionally to the rear mount turbo.
yeah i heard that some people when doing a remote mount just using a finned charge pipe in place of an intercooler, and yeah definately want to call up sts if you get the time that is just about all they do is remote mounts.
the build has begun, the next time i start my car, she'll be boosted.
here's a pic of the manifold pieces, oil, and coolant lines and fittings.
Very cool! I'm excited for you. I can't wait to see the finished project as I'm sure you are as well. Where did you get the manifold pieces and everything else?
Very cool! I'm excited for you. I can't wait to see the finished project as I'm sure you are as well. Where did you get the manifold pieces and everything else?
the flanges are P2R, the pipes came from treadstone, vibrant, Prl motorsports,
and a few other places.
the flanges are P2R, the pipes came from treadstone, vibrant, Prl motorsports,
and a few other places.
So you didn't have to get any custom piping? I still need to get in touch with STS turbo about the rear mount turbo. A trip to Utah may be in my future
Looks damn pretty. I always love watching a turbo set up being custom built from scratch, but it looks like you guys have everything planned out already and won't run into a lot of fitment issues. Honestly looks like a company put together a kit for the TL and all you do is weld it up. Congrats UTAH's looking forward to the start-up
I was able to talk to STS today. Great guys over there, John had some great ideas and insights about doing a remote mount. His suggestion was putting the turbo where the driver's side muffler is, and the waste gate and blow off valve on the passenger side muffler area. I'm still debating that installation or putting it where the mid-muffler is like you were planning Utah Type S.
It also sounds like their universal installation kit will provide a lot of the needed piping and fittings so the custom installation should be less complicated. I think I'll probably go with an oil cooled turbo as the oil-less one is an extra 1k.
John also mentioned that above 5psi an intercooler was needed. I'm planning on going over 5 psi so I'm going to need an intercooler as well as new fuel injectors.
Looks like my wallet is going to be getting lighter soon...
I was able to talk to STS today. Great guys over there, John had some great ideas and insights about doing a remote mount. His suggestion was putting the turbo where the driver's side muffler is, and the waste gate and blow off valve on the passenger side muffler area. I'm still debating that installation or putting it where the mid-muffler is like you were planning Utah Type S.
It also sounds like their universal installation kit will provide a lot of the needed piping and fittings so the custom installation should be less complicated. I think I'll probably go with an oil cooled turbo as the oil-less one is an extra 1k.
John also mentioned that above 5psi an intercooler was needed. I'm planning on going over 5 psi so I'm going to need an intercooler as well as new fuel injectors.
Looks like my wallet is going to be getting lighter soon...
They have a very good reputation around here (STS is 15 minutes from my house) if you are mounting it where the mid muffler is you almost have to do the oiless turbo just not enough room for the scavenge pump ETC. I realy like the injectors we got from Fuel injector connection great idle for big injectors just like stock, the CX racing intercooler fits perfect and you just cant beat the price and we don't need a crazy expensive cooler for the modest boost levels we will be running, we where going to run the charge pipe over the transmission and through the hole where the stock air intake goes (follow the transmission shift cable route over top of the subrame)
They have a very good reputation around here (STS is 15 minutes from my house) if you are mounting it where the mid muffler is you almost have to do the oiless turbo just not enough room for the scavenge pump ETC. I realy like the injectors we got from Fuel injector connection great idle for big injectors just like stock, the CX racing intercooler fits perfect and you just cant beat the price and we don't need a crazy expensive cooler for the modest boost levels we will be running, we where going to run the charge pipe over the transmission and through the hole where the stock air intake goes (follow the transmission shift cable route over top of the subrame)
thanks for the tips, it sounds like I'll have to go with the turbo in the muffler spot, although my ocd makes me want to go twin turbos in the muffler spots...
so ive been making room, all the wiring has been moved out off the way and tucked back
moved the fuze box down behind the transmission
and my dad took the exhaust flange to his work, and tacked on the first little bit of pipe, had to trim the fan shroud a little bit
you cant see it, but the fan had to be bent in closer to the radiator.
maybe a slim fan in my future?
i also put an intake manifold spacer on to get a bit more clearance.
the only issue im having with that is hood clearance, getting ready to trim some of the supports off to make room for the elevated i.m.
any other ideas on creating more clearance besides hood spacers? not a big fan
Last edited by UTAH Type-S; 11-15-2014 at 11:57 PM.
so ive been making room, all the wiring has been moved out off the way and tucked back
moved the fuze box down behind the transmission
and my dad took the exhaust flange to his work, and tacked on the first little bit of pipe, had to trim the fan shroud a little bit
you cant see it, but the fan had to be bent in closer to the radiator.
maybe a slim fan in my future?
i also put an intake manifold spacer on to get a bit more clearance.
the only issue im having with that is hood clearance, getting ready to trim some of the supports off to make room for the elevated i.m.
any other ideas on creating more clearance besides hood spacers? not a big fan
Very cool! Are you running the turbo just off of the front side where the pre-cat was?
I can't wait to see the finished turbo install! You and your dad are awesome!
The manifold fabrication is coming along, we finished the hard part the manifold flanges and the T4 twin scroll flange, the T4 flange was a pain in the arse getting those big pipes hammered down to the small twin scroll size was tough had to be done with a big hammer and anvil my hand hurts from holding the pipe and hammering it into the small rectangle shape, they will flow very good and made of schedule 10 304 stainless steel so they will be super durable and not crack, now the easy part connecting them with a v band clamp so it will be two pieces and 2 flex pipes to give it room to expand and contract from the heat, we are going to mount the turbo intake filter pointing forward the intake riser from a pilot makes this possible.
So to make the pilot manifold riser fit we had to cut the hood up a little bit. Luckily its no where it could be seen
just some of the support down the middle.
to keep the hood strong we filled the remianing supports with flame resistant polyurethane foam.
its still curing as we speak but it should work
Will post pics of the mess when i get home
so heres the mess i was talking about, im in the process of cleaning it up,
i have most of the big stuff removed, and ill be putting the hood liner when its all done so most of what i miss wont be seen any way
got the twin scroll flange on the turbo, looks pretty beach'n,
and here it is mounted, we made a bracket off the transmission mount
and yes the hood closed without issue.
pardon all the blue tape
Looking great! I'm as excited as you are to see the final result.
Thank's my son is really taking his time to do it correctly and look clean and mean
I was curious - are you running 2.5in or 3in charge piping? I think that intercooler comes with 3in inlet and outlets doesn't it?
Thank's my son is really taking his time to do it correctly and look clean and mean
The charge pipes and intercooler are 2.5 we might run a 3.0 pipe to the throttle body for looks more than anything
Looking great! I'm as excited as you are to see the final result.
I was curious - are you running 2.5in or 3in charge piping? I think that intercooler comes with 3in inlet and outlets doesn't it?
Thank you im at the piont now where im getting nervous about the results
my charge pipe is iether 2.5 or 2.75 I cant remember. But we'll probably use a 3" into the intake manifold for aesthetic purposes
Looks great! I'm excited to see the turbo actually mounted in the engine bay. I'm assuming the spilt pipes are for each side of the exhaust to come into the turbo.
You and your dad are doing an awesome job. Keep up the good work!
got the front half of the turbo manifold mocked and taped up here
and here is the same shot. only its been tacked up and polished by my dad
and a closeup of the turbo (my personal favorite)
What boost levels are you shooting for? I went through a bunch of different air filters trying to eliminate surging. What worked for me was a 9" cone filter on a 12" long 4" diameter tube. Took up a lot of space and my inlet is oriented on the other side of what you show.
Looks like you're leaving enough space to put in an elbow if you find the same and need to lengthen the intake piping.
What boost levels are you shooting for? I went through a bunch of different air filters trying to eliminate surging. What worked for me was a 9" cone filter on a 12" long 4" diameter tube. Took up a lot of space and my inlet is oriented on the other side of what you show.
Looks like you're leaving enough space to put in an elbow if you find the same and need to lengthen the intake piping.
YMMV
thank you. and however much boost i can run safely on stock internals (10-12 lb at most) for now. what were you running
this is the air filter i pland on puting in the on in those pictures was just on from my cia i put on for looks in the photos. and i might run some piping into the fender well and put an air filter on it there, or leave the filter directly on the inlet and build a box around it with an elbow that leads to outside the engine compartment. we'll just have to see what i feel like doing when its done, one thing i am considering not too far down the road is water-meth injection.
Looking good! Nice choice on the turbo, that things going to be stealthy with the internal wastegate and integrated by-pass valve.
thank you.
i already have a TiAL blow off valve so im gonna use that instead of the one thats built in, but im definitely going to use the internal wastegate, that saves me so much time and space.
11-07-2014, 03:17 PM
It sounds like you and your son already did a lot of research on this, I want to thank you for that as well.
