flexer

I enjoy the debates as well. Just time consuming. Tony the Tiger's build of his 3.0 liter is one of the best/well documented builds. Lets go there first.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/46...ate-camry.html

He updates it all the time, He has great dyno results showing since most people go from twin to single or vs versa and don't care about making the same power, they just go for maxing out the set-up so it's SO HARD to compare. Let me find another one for the NSX. Maybe an even better example since its an acura motor as well.

Here is science of speed TT kit making about 500 HP.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...E1-12.9PSI.jpg

Here is a thread with most of them being single turbo's. Look at factorX car making 550 hp but look at the torque curve. Way more lazy, but as you say comes on HARD, like all singles do.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...-if-your-turbo

Majofo

:unsubscribe:

flexer

bahaha. Sorry. I am engineer by trade. I don't allow opinion only factual evidence. IHC is right. Larger turbo's have the potential to flow more up top and he gave a great example of why by talking about the sub-woofers. The larger wheel diameter offers WAY more area than two smallers. This larger area allows way more flow from the turbine side. Also larger A/R's are offered on larger turbo's since twins and small turbo's are designed more for response. Also large turbo's offer much larger exhaust area options as well.

NOW the arguments listed above do start to loose traction as you go into BIG DISPLACEMENT V8 drag racing where they use twin turbo set-ups that would be considered drag only set-ups for guys like us at our displacements. At that level they can get just as good of flow up top with large twin as they do with INSANE MONSTER singles that they use.

Sorry you unsubscribed now :-)

flexer

Some other pics he posted.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2493536

I hate cars

I look forward to looking at that setup as soon as I get a minute at work. I saved a couple sites saying the single turbo 335 actually had better throttle response but they also significantly changed the induction system so it's hard to attribute changes to the turbo or not.

I had a feeling you were an engineer lol. I have virtually no education, I was just a kid with a turbo car in the 90s that got great pleasure out of beating up on the muscle cars with a V6. It's not quite as cool as it was back then since everyone knows the potential of turbocharging now.

bouncer07

1,100 whp Acura TL coming soon

flexer

It's a great read. I wish I could look and see and give exact pages but everything is blocked at work, but there is a part where he talks about switching back from the twin set-up back to single and why, and how he missed the huge midrange torque but loves the sound of a single, and way it comes in NASTY HARD. I actually agree with him, and have picked up a Kai51r turbo because i like the "sound", I know that sounds stupid, and like how the car "feels faster" when the boost hits all at once.

If I could find twins that would have intake whistle like the big singles did, I would actually go with a tt set-up on my next project instead of single.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Everyone saying how fwd can't handle over 400whp should do some research on the fwing. It has 1100 hp and was faster in time attack then most rwd and awd cars.

Most fwd cars are made to be commuter cars and just not setup properly for performance.

The same company also made a sub 7 sec fwd drag car.

Now I know average acurazine member will look at the fwing and bash it on its function over form looks and wing. It is also a track car, not a drag car, so I know most people will have no interest in taking corners over 20 mph.

And yes I understand the limits of the oem transmissions.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

brain, you see the wheelspin in 3rd gear at WOT?


am not saying its not doable, but putting down a ton of power on a FWD platform is not easy...you can always keep running wider stickier tires depending on your goals...

bouncer07

Boost by gears... --> Hondata!

Majofo

At least you've found the problem. Let me know when you fix it.

flexer

:-) . It's true. Engineer=idiot

Majofo

You know your shit IHC, and nobody needs to tell you otherwise. Don't discredit your knowledge and experience because you don't have student loan debt and a piece of paper.

Engineering schools teach you a little bit, but really just put you through the rigor to train you how to think. I had a classmate who was going to school to get the paper after being a non-degreed engineer for 20 years. Smartest guy in the class.. prof would ask some abstract question that no one in the history of his class has ever answered and he'd answer it. Prof was like.. yes... that is correct.

Majofo

Yes, we're epic idiots and we make no excuse for it. Sometimes you need to break it ten times to figure out what's going on.

I hate cars

The thing I've always liked about you is I would not know you were an engineer if it were not for something you said many years ago. You've never used the "I'm an engineer so I'm right" line as some have (Chad are you listening lol). I work closely with engineers in a position I have no right to be in with my lack of education and I feel like I've learned a lot. I've watched these guys in meetings where they're no more educated on a particular subject than I am but they go down the logical list of questions until they have all the information needed to make a decision. It is a way of thinking. Since our generation will probably work until we drop dead I've been thinking seriously about trying to get that piece of paper at the age of 36 especially since my company pays for it. If only I could stop being a girl and leave emotion out but that's only going to happen when Flexer realizes a large single > twins in every scenario on every car.

I hate cars

You have so much to learn and I don't have the time at work to teach you.

Majofo

They're paying for it?! Go for it! Where will you be 4-5 years from now.. 40s.. but you could be in your 40s with a piece of paper on the wall and maybe a little more coin in the bank.

It'll be tough, especially if you're working full-time.. and you'll be surrounded by kids and hardly any hot chickadees.. but it's definitely worth it. What specialty were you thinking?

I had 4 or 5 guys 50+ when I was in.. one was retired, just doing it because he was bored.

Majofo

Also, anyone who toots their horn, no matter what it is, is generally a douche. I work with some people like that. I don't answer their emails or talk to them because they just want an opportunity to tell you how awesome they are.

The smartest guys I know are super humble, whether phd or bs. If you live your life as a status of your education and wealth, you'll never connect with the people around you. A lot of the guys here love talking about cars and guns. Easy to make friends.

I hate cars

That's good to know. The last thing I need is a bunch of 20yr old distractions. I have no kids, might not be able to have any, have a good steady income, I don't drink and rarely go out so maybe it will work. I can say this company must hire the female engineers based on looks because half of them look like they could go into modeling if engineering doesn't work out. It makes staying focused in meetings nearly impossible but I'm not complaining when the alternative is a bunch of oil field workers.

I would love to go into mechanical engineering, specifically acoustical engineering or automotive engineering. Third would be an EE but I'm afraid of high voltage and I have no idea just how "hands on" it would be with electricity.

I've still got a setup that I can't for the life of me understand why no one has done it yet but it gives instant turbo spool and near naturally aspirated levels of backpressure and it's just a different implementation of existing turbo hardware. If the patent process wasn't so screwed up I would probably give it a shot. With OEMs doing such a great job at eliminating lag this thing isn't as big of a deal as it would have been 10 years ago when I started using it but it is an approach no one is using yet.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Bisi did a boosted 1000hp+ build on a brand new 2014 Odyssey on the stock j35 with aftermarket internals as well as a 6mt swap. Of course its sleeved and all but still, I believe its the first j-series to break the 1k horsepower barrier yet. I know SlimJim got close....I think around 850ish if I remember correctly.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/f...turbo_odyssey/

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

How would you know how much I have to learn considering we have never even had a conversation.

It is funny you make ASSumptions based on a few internet posts.

Btw I was just referring to the limits of a fwd chassis, not your car specific. I am sure you made wrong assumptions and misinterpreted what I said like everyone seems to do.

Majofo

I hate cars

It was your reference to the sub 7 second FWD car that made me lose interest. There are extremes in any case but going from the track to the street a FWD car is going to lose considerably more traction. I've run mine on $80 Radial TAs, one of the worse performing tires I've ever been on an it was the most fun I've had at the track because I was trapping up to 129mph that night but literally spinning the tires at will as I went through the traps. My friends began lining up at the finish line, probably hoping to watch me kill myself. I was running low 12s. That's one extreme.

In the middle where you have high hp street cars on tire and basic suspension work, FWD is going to need several hundred more hp to have a chance at beating a RWD car from a stop in 1/4 mile. The best a FWD car can ever hope for is it's static weight on the front tires during launch. That's as good as it can get without the gay ass wheelie bars used by some of the single digit cars and only at the track. RWD cars can end up with the full weight of the car on the rear tires. Mine pulls the left tire almost a foot in the air in perfect conditions (at the track). I don't know how much weight is on the rear but I know if I turn the steering wheel in first and second gear the front wheels kind of scrub at the track and the car may go in the general direction you're pointing the wheels but it's safe to say most of the weight is on the rear. On the street it's no where close to lifting tire even on slicks but I still manage to put at least 5 cars on slicked up FWD cars.

Some of this is why I prefer a large single turbo. If you don't shock the tires you don't get the insane traction. There are times I can hook better from a dead stop than when rolling into it at 60mph mostly due to a lack of weight transfer. FWD will always have this problem.

From a roll on pure street tire I don't doubt FWD can put the power down as good as many RWD cars. The video of Bert's TL spinning hard at 70+mph is really cool but for over 500whp the wheelspin wasn't that bad. The better the tire the better both cars will hook but the RWD car is going to get larger gains.

About the single digit FWD cars.... You're not going to see a streetable one. My father has a streetable single digit RWD car sitting in the garage with decent manners and a suspension that won't beat you up on trips. If you've ever been in a high, high powered FWD car that's set up for drag racing you're not going to want to drive it on the street.

TopSpeed556

I believe he's referring to the fact you've never done a track event, yet come on here talking like you know everything.

TopSpeed556

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself. How many FWD single second cars do any of us see on the road.

flexer

Lets talk about that. Bismoto says it made such and such, but there is no dyno chart. Why no dyno graph? Their other builds at sema all had dyno graphs in the display except this one. And bismoto posted video's of it dynoing on youtube yet never show you the graph. Fishy fishy. Also that article says a "pair of turbo's" yet at sema I could have sworn it was single. More fishyness. I don't consider a j series going over 1000 whp till a dyno graph is posted or the car traps in the qt. mile. They offer neither and I believe the writing is on the wall as to why

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

HPD had gears cut for a 6MT that was going into a boosted Ody. The article below lists Bisimoto as the builder.



http://www.motorworldhype.com/tag/1000hp-honda-odyssey/

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Nothing you typed I did not already know. I never said a 1000 hp fwd car was streetable and I am not interested in drag racing. I am interested in autocross and track days.

I have never said I know everything. I do not have an ego like most in this thread.

Majofo

I hate cars

I forgot about the hardon you have for me and several others because we talk about guns occasionally.

I'm going to keep it short in hope of not destroying this thread since there has been good debate taking place.

You don't see me naming Top Fuel's 3.728 second run as a testimony to RWD in a street application. Neither will my GN pull off anywhere close to a 1.4 second 60' on the street as it does on the track. We're talking about an Acura TL that has to drive on the street with occasional track days.

Auto-x does not require much in the way of power, it's setup and driver. FWD cars generally have to be set up loose while RWD cars can be more neutral and use the power to rotate.

As speed rises FWD becomes less of a hinderance. That's why they do ok on track days and such.

About that ego, look back on your post about taking corners at more than 20mph. I saw a little ego there. You think you could out drive me in the corners?

Majofo

I'm sure he'll out drive you into the corner.

Majofo

Can't handle that 180 hp FF VTAK powah!!!

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

it's amazing how many people crash on that turn on that particular track

Majofo

Yeah, it's famous, I think there's a HL vid every year.

bouncer07

Yup, saw what Bisi was working on. Just kinda thought that the J35 type-S wasn't worked on, it could have set record on any TypeS.

GraySiCK

What thread is this?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

a thread called "twin turbo '08 TL-S"

Majofo

Whoa whoa.. hold up there. Might want to check your ego at the door. This is a no ego zone crabs.

I hate cars

The first one could probably be avoided but this one.... I just don't know why people go to the track if they can't handle the car if it gets a little out of shape. I think they should remove the RSB entirely until they can handle the car lol. Then again my driving style is probably why I blister tires and destroy brakes at the track.

Majofo

lol.. I'm not sure why he brought that car to the track at all.