Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
04-11-2009, 08:01 PM
#121
Team Owner
Twins are more linear where a larger single hits all at once.
04-14-2009, 02:58 AM
#126
2008 335i e92 6MT
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I don't know how I missed this one.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
not a turbo expert at all x_X but i read somewhere, couldn't you use a little bit of nitrous, just like a tiny amount, to get your turbo spoolin' a bit faster to at least reduce some lag? or is our engine not built for f/i and nitrous and will jsut blow up?
04-14-2009, 09:46 AM
#128
Team Owner
You can and I did it back in the 90s but with today's turbo technology and knowlege there's no reason to have to use nitrous. It's one more thing to go wrong and the last thing you want is for the nitrous to keep flowing on accident while under boost. This is another reason you want to be able to control timing. Temporarily retarded timing will make a huge difference in how quickly the turbo spools.
04-14-2009, 12:22 PM
#130
takin care of Business in
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^^^ after spending 3-4K he is prolly doing a little research about GREDDY and AEM i guess LOL....
04-14-2009, 12:27 PM
#131
04-14-2009, 12:31 PM
#132
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4g's? assuming the s/c is used huh? if its new tell me where to find something like that! xP
3G's apparently since I have a 3G. He says he'll do all labor and work and buy parts with the $6500. He'll do his best (been in the performance scene for 40 years) If it is unsuccessful I will only play 600$. Too bad I don't have $6500. Anyways S/C is like $3800 I believe new, My uncle and I can install it ourselves
and about the TURBO....what does the guy have to loose ??? so u take ur TL in....he keeps it in his backyard for 2 weeks.....drives around in it for a week.....and says damn its not possible.....and you pay him $600.....damn $600 for someone else to chill in ur TL.....
Last edited by swoosh; 04-14-2009 at 12:36 PM.
04-14-2009, 04:09 PM
#133
Instructor
Thread Starter
Still here and haven't you read my previous answers. I can seat here trying to make a point by answering every single post or Shut Up and Show up with my finish project.
Once again, I'm not trying to impress, nor prove anything to anyone. Just know that WE WOULD NOT WAIT ANYMORE THAN WE ALREADY DID.
Once again, I'm not trying to impress, nor prove anything to anyone. Just know that WE WOULD NOT WAIT ANYMORE THAN WE ALREADY DID.
04-14-2009, 04:11 PM
#134
Instructor
Thread Starter
04-14-2009, 05:07 PM
#136
takin care of Business in
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...you know what I mean....
04-14-2009, 10:47 PM
#137
2008 335i e92 6MT
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He meant the cost of the S/C.....i doubt there is any S/C for the 4G TL yet....for the 3G TL the S/C cost more than 4K....for 3K you can get a used one....
and about the TURBO....what does the guy have to loose ??? so u take ur TL in....he keeps it in his backyard for 2 weeks.....drives around in it for a week.....and says damn its not possible.....and you pay him $600.....damn $600 for someone else to chill in ur TL.....
and about the TURBO....what does the guy have to loose ??? so u take ur TL in....he keeps it in his backyard for 2 weeks.....drives around in it for a week.....and says damn its not possible.....and you pay him $600.....damn $600 for someone else to chill in ur TL.....
my bad sorry for not being clear xP its jsut a new S/C is pretty hard to find under 4,000 x_X and so i was thinking you were referring to a used s/c for around 3,000 cuz you said "installed for 4,000".
04-14-2009, 11:34 PM
#138
Still here and haven't you read my previous answers. I can seat here trying to make a point by answering every single post or Shut Up and Show up with my finish project.
Once again, I'm not trying to impress, nor prove anything to anyone. Just know that WE WOULD NOT WAIT ANYMORE THAN WE ALREADY DID.
Once again, I'm not trying to impress, nor prove anything to anyone. Just know that WE WOULD NOT WAIT ANYMORE THAN WE ALREADY DID.
the ONLY question im asking is,..... are you aware that the ultimate is not compatible with our ecu's? or did you just assume that you can hook it up and make use of all of its functions.
if anything, im only trying to lookout
04-15-2009, 10:53 PM
#139
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I would love to see a tl with a turbo kit but its really not the way to go, for one the price is going to be crazy and second the vtec engine is a high compression engine the only way to lower the compression rates would be to change you pistons in your engine so that it would lower the compression rates. Plus all of the other internals you are going to have to change just so the engine can take the extra pressure. A supercharger is definitely the way to go for one i feel with the tl it needs more low-end torque and a supercharger is going to help you out alot more with that problem and the price is still high but its not out of reach. Plus from what i have seen the comptech supercharger seems to be pretty reliable. I mean someone correct me if im wrong.
04-15-2009, 11:04 PM
#141
Team Owner
I would love to see a tl with a turbo kit but its really not the way to go, for one the price is going to be crazy and second the vtec engine is a high compression engine the only way to lower the compression rates would be to change you pistons in your engine so that it would lower the compression rates. Plus all of the other internals you are going to have to change just so the engine can take the extra pressure. A supercharger is definitely the way to go for one i feel with the tl it needs more low-end torque and a supercharger is going to help you out alot more with that problem and the price is still high but its not out of reach. Plus from what i have seen the comptech supercharger seems to be pretty reliable. I mean someone correct me if im wrong.
A turbo is gentler on internals for a given hp.
Compression can be lowered by using a thicker headgasket. Why no one does this, I don't know. You figure for a grand total of $200 if you do it yourself you can have a boost friendly compression ratio.
There's no reason you can't run a turbo with the half assed engine management that's meant for the supercharger. Only problem is it's really half assed.
The number one reason you probably won't see a turbo by a large company is it's extremely hard to make it emissions compliant on a car like the TL that has the cats bolted to the heads. Doing the turbo pre-cats is the way to go but by law you can't move the cats further downstream from where they originally were. The turbos after the cats is ok but they won't spool as fast. Technically to be legal it would have to be after the third cat.
With what's currently available, the best fix is to run stock engine management and get good at tuning a methanol kit to provide the necessary fuel and octane. It can be done, 20% of my fuel is provided by methanol.
04-15-2009, 11:06 PM
#142
Team Owner
04-15-2009, 11:09 PM
#143
Common myth today but it was true a few years ago. A properly sized turbo will blow a supercharger away in low end torque. Look at the gobs of super low end torque on the 911 turbo and 335.
A turbo is gentler on internals for a given hp.
Compression can be lowered by using a thicker headgasket. Why no one does this, I don't know. You figure for a grand total of $200 if you do it yourself you can have a boost friendly compression ratio.
There's no reason you can't run a turbo with the half assed engine management that's meant for the supercharger. Only problem is it's really half assed.
The number one reason you probably won't see a turbo by a large company is it's extremely hard to make it emissions compliant on a car like the TL that has the cats bolted to the heads. Doing the turbo pre-cats is the way to go but by law you can't move the cats further downstream from where they originally were. The turbos after the cats is ok but they won't spool as fast. Technically to be legal it would have to be after the third cat.
With what's currently available, the best fix is to run stock engine management and get good at tuning a methanol kit to provide the necessary fuel and octane. It can be done, 20% of my fuel is provided by methanol.
A turbo is gentler on internals for a given hp.
Compression can be lowered by using a thicker headgasket. Why no one does this, I don't know. You figure for a grand total of $200 if you do it yourself you can have a boost friendly compression ratio.
There's no reason you can't run a turbo with the half assed engine management that's meant for the supercharger. Only problem is it's really half assed.
The number one reason you probably won't see a turbo by a large company is it's extremely hard to make it emissions compliant on a car like the TL that has the cats bolted to the heads. Doing the turbo pre-cats is the way to go but by law you can't move the cats further downstream from where they originally were. The turbos after the cats is ok but they won't spool as fast. Technically to be legal it would have to be after the third cat.
With what's currently available, the best fix is to run stock engine management and get good at tuning a methanol kit to provide the necessary fuel and octane. It can be done, 20% of my fuel is provided by methanol.
04-15-2009, 11:24 PM
#145
Team Owner
All you need is a good foundation of the basics and the rest you can figure out.You'll learn that an engine is just an air pump. It's all math, calculate how much air you need for a certain hp and that will tell you what heads, cam, turbo, etc you need to get to that goal. I can tell you that the stock TL top end (intake manifold, heads, cams) will make 600hp with some decent boost. They flow more than my race ported GN heads.
If you really want to learn the computer controls and especially how one parameter relates to another, an "advanced computer controls" class or believe it or not a smog technician class will give you the basics.
Oh, the 20% is on the GN because my injectors are too small so I make up for it with meth. I think it would work well to run stock engine management with the supercharger and use the meth as the extra fuel. You just have to be careful because a malfunction in the meth system and you'll run into a lean condition.
04-15-2009, 11:26 PM
#147
Team Owner
It can be as soon as someone makes a kit. With the newer Garrett GT "boosted" series of turbos, you can have a turbo that will support 450hp and have full boost by 2,000 rpm. The new technology is really exciting.
04-15-2009, 11:33 PM
#150
Team Owner
Really, the credit goes to the V8 guys back in the day. They laughed at me, ridiculed me, and black balled me for trying to run a V6 at the drags. I spent many nights figuring up ways to pull a few extra hp out of this thing to teach them a lesson. Over the course of 3 years I had a mid 10 second full weight V6 that I drove to work every day and taking money from the trailer queens on the weekends.
04-16-2009, 07:25 AM
#151
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Don't be so humble. There are quite a few people on this site who could be considered fountains of knowledge; however, only a couple of them post regularly in 3G. You are one of them. I'm not big on reading, yet I look forward to your posts, especially the long, detailed ones; I learn so much. You thank us for telling you we like your posts, but it's us who should be thanking you for sharing.
04-16-2009, 01:05 PM
#152
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-S...Q5fAccessories
Universal Turbo Kit
try fitting that, if it works out let me know then i'll give it a try =D
Universal Turbo Kit
try fitting that, if it works out let me know then i'll give it a try =D
04-16-2009, 01:59 PM
#153
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-S...Q5fAccessories
Universal Turbo Kit
try fitting that, if it works out let me know then i'll give it a try =D
Universal Turbo Kit
try fitting that, if it works out let me know then i'll give it a try =D
04-21-2009, 08:49 AM
#157
I was at the NYC auto show last week.... and i saw a 2G IS350... with Twin Turbos.... the turbos, were LITERALLY in place of the mufflers... with only the muffler tips coming out of the turbine....
i wonder if that was all "show" and no go.... but it looked interesting to me... first time seeing that
i wonder if that was all "show" and no go.... but it looked interesting to me... first time seeing that
04-21-2009, 09:30 AM
#159
Team Owner
I was at the NYC auto show last week.... and i saw a 2G IS350... with Twin Turbos.... the turbos, were LITERALLY in place of the mufflers... with only the muffler tips coming out of the turbine....
i wonder if that was all "show" and no go.... but it looked interesting to me... first time seeing that
i wonder if that was all "show" and no go.... but it looked interesting to me... first time seeing that