RV6 True Dual Exhaust for '04-'08 TL. Accepting deposits now
Titanium heat treated tips FTMFW
07-20-2010, 11:25 AM
#127
10th Gear
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Sorry for my english I'm french canadian and I do my best
If I understand well you don't really gained 36whp like 200 to 236, you just gain a better power band.
I posted average numbers since they do a better job of representing power gained through out the powerband. The average is calculated by the dyno program. You can see the average numbers underneath the graphs. If you look at just the peak numbers of the exhaust it looks like you lost 4WHP by adding the jpipe. But in reality much more power is gained in the 3-5krpm range.
07-20-2010, 12:00 PM
#130
takin care of Business in
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Damn richie you bet me to it !!! LOL....
the performance shop appointments are killing me
none the less the car sounds like pure sexxxxx !!! love the exhaust and love the gains!!!
the performance shop appointments are killing me
none the less the car sounds like pure sexxxxx !!! love the exhaust and love the gains!!!
. Might have to wait for a used one to pop up on the black market I don't think I can justify that much for an exhaust for such little gains, regardless of how beautiful it is or amazing it sounds
07-20-2010, 01:50 PM
#135
Going based off the second dyno graph, the car baselined at 189whp/172wtq. With the V3 j-pipe and dual exhaust it dyno'd 205whp/191wtq. Yes I know thats peak, but seeing as peak is the highest point of power it made its only truly gaining 19lb/ft of torque. Yes I understand its gaining a significant amount more power across the entire powerband, but never at one point is it more then 19wtq or 16whp.
07-20-2010, 05:18 PM
#137
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
The first batch will only be 25 exhaust. We already have 5 deposits. There will always be a 2nd and 3rd batches.
Last edited by Richie v6; 07-20-2010 at 05:25 PM.
07-20-2010, 05:21 PM
#138
Going based off the second dyno graph, the car baselined at 189whp/172wtq. With the V3 j-pipe and dual exhaust it dyno'd 205whp/191wtq. Yes I know thats peak, but seeing as peak is the highest point of power it made its only truly gaining 19lb/ft of torque. Yes I understand its gaining a significant amount more power across the entire powerband, but never at one point is it more then 19wtq or 16whp.
:smh: mods are not for you. just go dyno in 5th gear if u wanna paper race
07-20-2010, 06:21 PM
#139
Richie, how exactly are you figuring out that much average gain across the powerband? Are you adding several gains at certain points and dividing? Literally speaking how are you mathematically figuring that out?
Last edited by n3o; 07-20-2010 at 06:29 PM.
07-20-2010, 07:32 PM
#144
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Thats fantastic. I didn't say it was garbage or not worth it, and I wasn't speaking on your, or anyone elses behalf. I don't need or want a dyno and I'm not trying to race anyone or anything. I drive my car and when I want to drive it aggresively I don't do it I'm generally not under 4,000 rpms. If I wanted a faster car I would of kept my STi or my S2000.
Richie, how exactly are you figuring out that much average gain across the powerband? Are you adding several gains at certain points and dividing? Literally speaking how are you mathematically figuring that out?
Richie, how exactly are you figuring out that much average gain across the powerband? Are you adding several gains at certain points and dividing? Literally speaking how are you mathematically figuring that out?
07-20-2010, 07:33 PM
#145
crazy i think im going to make a deposit. convince me, i know it would compliment my v3 jpipe
(5 min later and editing post)
I convinced myself, and made a deposit.
I would really like to see how these base tips are going to look like, I know you are waiting too. Those titanium burnt tips look nice, I am not sure if those apply. If this is not available til late august, this would be a next spring mod for me. No reason to run that shiny beautiful exhaust in the snow. Keep us updated!
(5 min later and editing post)
I convinced myself, and made a deposit.
I would really like to see how these base tips are going to look like, I know you are waiting too. Those titanium burnt tips look nice, I am not sure if those apply. If this is not available til late august, this would be a next spring mod for me. No reason to run that shiny beautiful exhaust in the snow. Keep us updated!
Last edited by Slooo97CL; 07-20-2010 at 07:43 PM.
07-20-2010, 07:36 PM
#146
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Similar slightly longer I think.
Nothing is lost under 3000RPM. That is just where the dyno starts. We have to wait for the torque converter to lockup since we are dynoing a automatic.
Nothing is lost under 3000RPM. That is just where the dyno starts. We have to wait for the torque converter to lockup since we are dynoing a automatic.
07-20-2010, 08:01 PM
#148
Why is the torque on the stock set up so high at 2500 rpm? IS the torque converter not lockup at the same time when you ran the stock set up?
07-20-2010, 08:46 PM
#149
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
07-20-2010, 09:24 PM
#150
Veni, vidi, vici
I dunno why everyone is fighting over how much power this exhaust makes, I mean at the very least, I'm pretty sure it's on par with all other competitors, and the price range is pretty much the same. I am in for the looks/power/ sound/ exclusivity. I am going to be the first in MA to have this, so I'm pretty amped. Man I can't wait .
07-20-2010, 10:43 PM
#151
I dunno why everyone is fighting over how much power this exhaust makes, I mean at the very least, I'm pretty sure it's on par with all other competitors, and the price range is pretty much the same. I am in for the looks/power/ sound/ exclusivity. I am going to be the first in MA to have this, so I'm pretty amped. Man I can't wait .
07-20-2010, 11:20 PM
#153
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
07-20-2010, 11:28 PM
#154
07-21-2010, 01:25 AM
#156
-Cheers
07-21-2010, 04:14 AM
#157
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Looks like I finally figured it out Richie. I was overlooking it this whole time. The average hp of this dynograph is not valid. You can argue all you want the computer says it so it must be right, but the computer is also calculating all the dips in the chart and low spots in the powerband. Never once have I heard of people refering to average number gains and now I see why. I circled the areas I'm refering to below. In reality, the average gains are going to be 18whp/17wtq. Not bad gains for an na application with still 2 cats in it and I know the quality is tip top if it has an Rv6 badge on it.
-Cheers
-Cheers
Stock TL with RV6 Exhaust
20 WHP peak gained
15 WTQ peak gained
Stock TL with RV6 Exhaust and V3 Jpipe
16 WHP peak gained
19 WTQ peak gained
If were to merely post peak numbers. It looks as if adding the V3 jpipe produces a 4WHP loss and only a 4WTQ gain. The peak numbers don’t really show the true power and overall improvement of this mod. I would much rather have the huge increases from 3000RPM to 5000RPM over the 4WHP peak gains any day.
Again I am only using the average numbers to compare against my own product. If you look carefully at the Jpipe+exhaust dyno and the exhaust only dyno. You can see that we used the same baseline to compare both the setup. All the runs were done on the same at the same facility and the comparison were done using the same baseline.
Stock TL with RV6 Exhaust
14 WHP average gained
22 WTQ average gained
Stock TL with RV6 Exhaust and V3 Jpipe
36 WHP average gained
40 WTQ average gained
Do you see how the average numbers do a much better job representing the gains throughout the entire powerband. Remember we are using the same baseline to obtain these average numbers. Educated consumers should have no problem interpreting the peak gains and average gains.
The one thing I don’t like about Mustang dynos is that there is no software available to the public to analyze dyno data and the scaling of the graphs is terrible. I agree according the graphs it doesn’t appear to have a 40WTQ average gain. You have to realize that the scaling of these graphs aren’t very fine. There is ~38-39WTQ between each division. The lines themselves represent ~4-5WTQ each. I realize the baseline is somewhat sinusoid but the computer should average this out as well. With every minimum there is a maximum. (yellow line)
07-21-2010, 06:53 AM
#158
Veni, vidi, vici
^ wow, Iwas really lost and confused about what the hell you guys were talking about this whole time. But after the explaination Richie just gave, I completely understand. i think Rich has a good point, average power increase is better then peak cuz you bearly hit the peak at highway speeds anyway. RICH IS A BEAST!!!
SCORE!!
SCORE!!
07-21-2010, 08:26 AM
#159
Richie,
The average numbers were part of my problem as well. I saw people begin to repeat numbers over and over again that were not in line with the standard of dyno measurement, which is measured in peak HP. If people measured modifications in terms of average HP then manufacturers would all claim enormous gains. Hell, CAIs could probably claim 15whp if they wanted because I'm sure they boost hp by 1 or 2 throughout the powerband.
I am very seriously considering putting down a deposit and picking this up as a package deal with a v4 jpipe once I see the tip options so don't think I'm saying the product isn't worth it. It surely is as good if not better than the competition.
Just wanted to let people know not to go bragging to their car buddies that they gained 50whp by adding an exhaust to their car. Tell them instead that you gained 12-20 throughout the powerband which is better for street applications anyways
The average numbers were part of my problem as well. I saw people begin to repeat numbers over and over again that were not in line with the standard of dyno measurement, which is measured in peak HP. If people measured modifications in terms of average HP then manufacturers would all claim enormous gains. Hell, CAIs could probably claim 15whp if they wanted because I'm sure they boost hp by 1 or 2 throughout the powerband.
I am very seriously considering putting down a deposit and picking this up as a package deal with a v4 jpipe once I see the tip options so don't think I'm saying the product isn't worth it. It surely is as good if not better than the competition.
Just wanted to let people know not to go bragging to their car buddies that they gained 50whp by adding an exhaust to their car. Tell them instead that you gained 12-20 throughout the powerband which is better for street applications anyways
07-21-2010, 08:31 AM
#160
I see what your refering to Richie, however that baseline dyno is pretty much junk. I'd suggest getting a new one considering for comparison purposes its not very accurate. It will probably gain very similar numbers to the wheels in peak power, but with such a rough baseline you can only really guess at the actual numbers.