I hate cars

Inaccurate- I have tons of new info to give in this thread and in a couple of the brake threads. I've been ignoring these threads that make me think too much because I've been way too tired to make a coherent post. Working tons of overtime to donate to a family member that's in trouble. I don't mean to get into my personal business but I wanted to say keep up the good work, I've been reading these posts everyday and once I get out of this auto pilot/exhaustion mode I have lots to write. Keep up the good work!

Inaccurate

Thanks much IHC. We appreciate your knowledge and experience. No rush.... we will still be here.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^everytime I drain my transmission, I always get between 2.8-2.9 quarts. I leave the drain bolt out for around 15 minutes and at that point its a very slow drip.

I tend to drain the trans with the driver side jacked up several inches because my car is very low to the ground. I cant lower the car completely with the drain pan underneath because the car will rest on the drain pan. I lower it as much as I can once it starts to drain though. I dont have ramps either. Do you guys think it would be better to jack the car on the passenger side so I can use gravity to my favor and get those last drops out? Maybe that will give me the full 3 quarts.

FWIW, I always have the trans fluid to the top dot on the dipstick

Inaccurate

Bert,

This is what I do that works for me.

Keep doing what you have but with this additional step. After you have let it drain the bulk of the fluid into your main catch pan, place a small shallow container in place of the full-size catch pan. You will want to use a shallow container having a height of no more than approximately 2-1/2 inches and able to hold 2 cups of liquid.

Now, lower the car completely to rest on the ground. Let the fluid drip into this shallow pan for approximately 5 minutes. There will be about 1-1/2 cups of additional fluid that will come out.

Plus, if possible, it helps to have not started the car previously within the past 6 or 12 hours. This allows fluid to have completely drained into the oil pan from the internal parts and a small amount leaks out of the converter (I believe). The evening before I plan to change my oil/fluid, I park in such a way that I am ready to work on it the next day without having to move or start the car.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Thanks,

I plan on doing it in the AM.

Thanks guys for all the help. hang in there IHC!

libert69

iTrader: (7)

3rd drain/fill with amsoils super shift was done yesterday. Very little difference in shift quality since the last drain/fill. The trans shifts very aggressive and grabs the gears very very quickly. I do not detect any unusual shifting behavior and I still have zero shudder. Im happy with the results

Inaccurate

:gheywave:

pimpin-tl

If anyone cares as no one is responding to my other posts. I did another drain and fill on my ATF, and so far so good. I am now noticing smooth but firmer shifts than before with the Z1. It will be a while before I can do the 3rd drain and fill as I am leaving town in a week. :P

donc

Ok, I'm going to do it. I have 46K on my 07 TL-S 5sp auto and I will use the Redline F fluid. I'll post on my results.
Thanks!

Inaccurate

donc,

We are looking forward to hearing your review.

Inaccurate

pimpin,

Sorry about the lack of replies. It is just because this thread is regarding racing fluid. Most of us in this thread have used the Amsoil, RedLine, or Mobil 1 regular ATF already. However, it is always good to hear of fellow TL'ers getting off of that Z1 bandwagon.

Kawika

iTrader: (6)

All I have to say is that I am sure as hell glad that I stumbled upon a different thread that - I Hate Cars- mentioned this mod for someone and -Inaccurate- directed me to this thread. This is EXACTLY the solution to what I've noticed about the Auto tranny since i've owned my TL. I'm the 2nd owner of it and have had it close to a year now...I've always felt that the shifting felt sloppy and not real crisp, but never imagined that there could be a solution to it versus replacing it with a 6 speed tranny! I'm definitely going to do this as well and can't wait to post my results also. Inaccurate and IHC....thanks for your invested time and research on this. I'm sure i'll have some questions along the way!

Inaccurate

Me too.

Ironically, my very first thread that I started on our forum was the one below (see link below). It is important for a person to remember their humble beginnings.

Autotrans shifting too soft with new 2006 (click here)

phee

iTrader: (5)

lol. this was my first thread https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/installing-my-new-intake-99-got-green-stuff-sprayed-me-help-628974/

ive come a looong way

Inaccurate

^ Your car gave you a "green" initiation to modding.

WHEEELMAN

iTrader: (14)

So, which one of you guys plans to open up the tranny and inspect the clutch packs after a period of time?

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

We'll let you do that.

WHEEELMAN

iTrader: (14)

lol. Why me?

I don't even have the 5 speed Auto in my Accord yet. So, I am hoping you guys work out the details and verify there are no ill effects on the clutch packs.


Does anyone have any hypothesis(or guess) as far the effects of low FM tranny fluid on the clutchpacks?

I hate cars

The effects are well known. Longer clutch life at the expense of firmer shifts.

While this is fairly new in the TL, it's been done for many years in the racing world or for people that don't want to spend the money for a shift kit but want firmer shifts. I've used type F with a slipping trans to get a little more life out of it while I saved for a rebuild.

It's not necessary to tear one down unless it fails and I'll guarantee we're not going to see any premature failures with this fluid.

The reason I say a teardown is not necessary is because as long as the shifts are quick and firm, you can be assured the clutches are in good shape.

I've only seen a handful of autos that actually wore out from normal usage. The clutches will last practically forever. It's always something external that causes the clutch wear/failure such as electronics malfunctioning, low line pressure, or overheating. Basically if your trans has a lifetime of quick sharp shifts, the trans should go an easy 200,000 miles. Unfortunately it only takes a short slip or a couple of bad shifts to burn the friction surface which greatly reduces the holding power and you get the snowball effect.

If the engine or trans ever fails on this car I will have detailed teardown results and pictures.

Inaccurate

cabrio - Any update with your racing fluid adventure?


WHEEELMAN - All I can offer is that I currently have 23 days and 1250 miles of proof that the synthetic racing fluid is great stuff. Not much proof, but it is a start.

In those 1250 miles, I have not encounter anything strange from my trans. It shifts with silk-like smoothness and grabs firmly, even going into converter lockup. Damn awesome stuff that racing fluid is. I just wish I would had done it sooner.

In addition, even the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has papers, which I have purchased, stating everything we have said in this thread. The SAE papers even state that vastly different ATF fluids can be safely used interchangeably. The papers specifically state that the real problem is with the people's close-mindedness..... Honestly, the papers state that.

I have not worked on the research paper yet for this thread. I have been distracted by some of my upcoming projects.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

IHC, clear out your inbox please

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

First three quarts are going in tomorrow.

I hate cars

Done.

I hate cars

What you say is so true. I remember the gloom and doom warnings over at bobistheoilguy when I went with *gasp* a normal friction modified fluid 88,000 miles ago. I should show back up and start a post with my 88,000 mile update and REALLY freak them out at the thought of running a non friction modified fluid in a Honda trans.

Those idiots even said my TL was going to die a short death from the 30wt oil I run calling it "syrup". I better stop now before I really start going off lol.

Really, all the fluid has to do is lubricate, cool, clean, and provide the correct friction levels in the clutch packs. The first 3 things you could do with engine oil if you wanted. The fourth covers a very wide range. I've had friends use 30wt engine oil in their auto trans. Even had a friend use straight water in his POS Subaru for a week. It kind of falls short of the lube aspect but the thing shifted great and never froze up. Of course I don't recommend either of those things but it goes to show that no fluid designed for an auto trans is going to hurt it.

pimpin-tl

Well so far the ATF has made my transmission shift smoother, but it's odd, it does grab harder in some cases especially when down shifting you feel it more. Hopefully that is normal with the Amsoil ATF.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i'll let you know how mine reacts after this weekend... i have two cases of Amsoil ATF waiting to go in all my cars... will do the 3X3 over a 3 week interval...

I hate cars

Are you doing the racing stuff or regular "ATF". Seriously, after the results of the racing stuff, I would skip over the regular fluid.

Inaccurate

This is normal and expected. The clutches grab more firmly during shifts and *downshifts* too.

If you are familiar with the Grade-logic feature, the non-Z1 ATF's will make this grade-logic more pronounced also. Same applies for the throttle-hold feature too.

For me, I greatly enjoy having the feel of these features to be more pronounced (more aggressive).

pimpin-tl

Exactly what I am feeling. I mean 1-2-3-4 is smooth, but most of the other shifts like the grade logic ones, downshifting you definitely feel it more on.

I have only done 2x3 so far....probably do the 3x3 when I get back in town in a few weeks.

pimpin-tl

IMHO, not enough time on that fluid to warrant going over the Amsoil ATF/ATD which has been tested for a long time here. Give your car another 50k of miles or so and let's see how it does.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

since this is the first fluid change on the TL tranny 30k mi, i didn't want to immediately shock the tranny by going to full racing level... so i bought 2 cases of universal ATF to do 2X3 on all four of my cars... let that marinate for a week each between each drain and fill and then use full racing stuff when i do my last drain and fill...

even tho i know you guys have had positive results with lightweight and racing fluid... im in a colder climate than you guys where we still get near freezing temps overnight... it will drop to 20oF tonight... and i don't want to slam the tranny with a brick wall that fast... im all about slow and steady... so i can at least monitor and adjust if needed...

all the cars are now daily drivers so i can't afford to have any of them out of commission, and don't have the funds for a rebuild if i f' something up...

but to IHC and Inacc, thanks for getting me off the Z1 wagon...

will report back my thoughts in a few weeks after i get my first mixture of lightweight/racing in there...

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I just did the first drain, before I drained the level as filled by the mechanic that did the engine R&R was about the distance between the dots above the second dot (same place the tranny shop that r&r'd the tranny put it after the rear main replacement)

I removed what came out, put in 3 quarts and am at the top of the top dot.

Do I need to check with the engine on or off? hot or cold? bear with me this is my first Acura drain & fill.

Thanks

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

you should be driving the car around for a few minutes... and shifting through every gear and letting the torque converter lock up so your new fluid mixes with what was left in your system... then on level ground you can turn off the car and check the level...

I hate cars

I think thats a good idea to introduce the new fluid slowly, even if it were Z1. You may check out Redline's lightweight racing fluid (type f) that Inaccurate is using. In your cold temps it may help especially when cold.

Inaccurate

cabrio,

The fluid level should be checked immediately, within approx one or two minutes, after turning off the engine. Do not check it with the engine running.

Start engine. Let it idle approx 30 seconds at least. Turn off engine. Read fluid level within one or two minutes after turning off engine.

Technically, the service manual says to do it with the fluid at operating temp. But, I don't worry about the temp aspect myself. The difference between hot and cold could be significant although. I would estimate the level would be 1/16 or 1/8 inch more full on the dipstick if checked while hot versus while cold.

As mentioned above, it is very important that the ground is level. This would skew the reading a lot.

I hate cars

X2 on making sure the car is level, it makes a huge difference.

And as you said, check it quickly after shutdown. There's supposed to be a checkvalve to prevent the convertor from draining back into the trans but if this goes bad or leaks a little, the trans will read artificially high when off and go down to normal once it's running.

FWIW, I run mine a little past the full dot when hot. No aeration, I checked it every day for a week after I first overfilled it to make sure. It's usually hard to get aeration in an auto trans from overfilling, aeration is usually a result of underfilling and sucking air. The downside is once you get the fluid level past the axle seals you're going to have leaks. Being a little past the full mark is still ok.

I figure an extra half quart should help a little to knock down some of the temperature peaks from a hard run and less chance of overhwhelming the cooler. Of course, I'm sure a TL does not generate the same spikes in temp that I'm used to but it can't hurt.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I just drove about 100 miles, if it feels different I'd attribute it to placebo effect.

FWIW it felt great before. I let it sit for a minute, in my garage which is where I have always checked levels, the floor is level, (the bubble on my level is slightly back of the middle on the floor of the garage).

The level on the stick is at the same place as it was when drained & filled by professionals, when they removed & fully drained the transmission, by that I mean it is the distance between the two dots above the high dot.

I am guessing that is where it belongs or where the slight "of level" of my garage puts full (I'd lean towards that is where they put it over the limit)

I will be doing the next d&f Monday morning should I do the regular racing or the light racing next or save it for the final drain & fill?

Inaccurate

Thanks for the update cabrio.

If you are talking about the RedLine "Lightweight Racing ATF" when you say "light racing", then for sure do the RedLine "Lightweight Racing ATF".

What is your overall plan? If you have only 3 qts of lightweight, I would save the 3 qts of lightweight for your final 3rd drain.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I have another four quarts of Redline racing (gallon jug) & 4 quarts of lightweight.

They did not have the gallon jug of lightweight.

Inaccurate

cabrio,

Do your second refill with the "racing".
Do your third refill with the "lightweight".