Italiano

really on the fence about supercharging or not. Any feedback from the people that have done this?

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

My input is NOT from experience but just my own opinions so take it for what its worth.

Supercharging a TL IMO isnt really that smart. First off even with a supercharger the TL still wont be that fast relatively speaking. Maybe thats because I have owned cars such as Z06's etc etc I dunno. Reliability will go way down. You will likely break something fairly quickly. Also, the car is front wheel drive so dont anticipate getting any traction. If your car is somewhat new the warranty will be history. Tuning is always an issue with forced induction. Lastly, they are expensive :-)

Hope this helps..

Opel

There's a lot of things to be taken into consideration...first..u start messing with the car...you might end up going a long way of, "fixing" things...

simply moding a car performance wise, will change the way you drive it...the more it performs, the more you will beat on it...and the more you're gonna end up fixing.

are you really ready to face the reality when shit hits the fan?

thats what it comes down to...

here's a few things that happened to me....broken pistons twice, blown head gaskets, stripped 2nd gear, burnt clutches. snapped axle, torn motor mounts. thats only about 15% lol

yes im SCed.

there's a few of the lucky ones who have not had probs with their cars with their superchargers... but i can tell u about me...i had a shitload.

goodluck... and i didnt mean to discourage you.... but if u asked me how would i deal with the fact that i may blow another motor...i will just say...start all over again....so thats what it comes down to... are you ready and willing to play.

cheers:

Italiano

anybody else? anybody had positive results? all replies good or bad are welcome,thanks

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I love my blower. 320 WHP+ TL = m5 killer

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

Doubt that. E60 or E39?

Opel

have to disagree on the 320 whp tl being an m5 killer... i wont even mention the e60, and i wont mention the 400 hp m5 either...maybe an e30?

old 540 6 speed with 284 hp, ran same times as camaro ss, low 13s, but at highway speeds...it leaves the camaro in dust...

dont ever underestimate bmw v8s at highway speeds, they're ridiculous.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

e39 is possible. it makes about the same at the wheels and is heavier. all depends on the driver

hamsup

Well, Im Sc'd aswell.. I love mine...but yes, I also am having troubles.
for one, ive now got some lifters tapping, and im having a cylinder 4 misfire problem.
other than that..its been good..deffinately suprises alot of people. Its not fast, its just powerful. Hence, its decently quick. Good enough for low 13's in the 1/4.
But i plan on pulling my motor and rebuilding it. Bigger bore, stroke, sleaved, to handle a 7 or 9lb pulley safely.

if ur sc'd on a stock motor, i would not recomend using a high boost pulley. You will blow your motor 110% guranteed...

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

The lifters tapping is not related to the S/C. I've had local customers with regular bolt ons who have the same issue. It's an issue with the motor itself.

I've supercharged a handful of TL's and all of them ran fine. As the kit sits out of the package it's pretty reliable. The power is linear. The kit fits very well. It's good for 65-80whp depending on your tranny type (MT makes more). If you do supporting mods (intake, high flow cat, j-pipe, exhaust, etc) you can make more.

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

Wait for the turbo, so you can make more horsepower (and control the power with a boost controller) and brake more shit

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=Opel;11113964]have to disagree on the 320 whp tl being an m5 killer... i wont even mention the e60, and i wont mention the 400 hp m5 either...maybe an e30?

old 540 6 speed with 284 hp, ran same times as camaro ss, low 13s, but at highway speeds...it leaves the camaro in dust...

dont ever underestimate bmw v8s at highway speeds, they're ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you need to redyno because the only m5 I can't leave is the newest body style. You should know this if you are pushing the HP you say.

Old 540? BMW's are heavy and almost always auto.

To the guy looking to get a blower do it. To anyone without a blower on thier TL no need to post.

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

do it, its fun

D-MacTL

iTrader: (2)

He's got his for sale

Opel

[quote=Hi speed;11116190]im pushing the power i say, but i think i have a what?40-50 whp on top of u...
and "bmw are heavy is an overstatement" 3 series aint heavier than ur TL...thats one thing..

second... a 540 6 speed MANUAL, is a fast highway car... weight doesnt affect a v8 the way it affects a v6...

no one said the 540 will tear u apart or anything... was simply saying, dont underestimate them...i just gave u a comparison with the camaro SS... they both run same 1/4 mile time...but after that the 540 is faster...

I hate cars

It's a tuning issue, not a strength issue. These supercharged TLs ping like crazy and that's what's blowing them up, not the power. You don't need a built motor for stock boost levels and it should handle the HBP fine if it's kept from detonating.

This is why I say a methanol kit is a must with the supercharger. The engine should live a nice long life with it.

Build yourself a forged motor without taking care of the tune and all it's going to do is buy you a little time. The end result will be the same. Believe me, I've broken forged pistons before from a bad tune.

Opel

ur misfire could be from a broken spark plug...if ur using the denso plugs (IK22) supplied from CT along with the SC, which may have led to broken ring lands of that piston...

a total of 6 of them broke in my motor...the electrode insulator broke...due to exessive heat, which then u end up with a faulty plug...causing pre-ignition...

i broke ring lands twice...first time on 2 cylinders 4 & 6
and 2nd time, on 4,5,6.

ur motor could easily blow on stock boost setup...the SC isn't a SC...its a fucking high pressure heater.... normal driving, IAT's are same as engine bay, because of the SC absorbing so much heat and always remaining very hot...air traveling through it its like air running through a heating element... especially at cruising, and local driving...when ur throttle is open lightly and not enough air traveling through to even cool it down... and it doesnt make a difference under boost either, bcs it heats up the charged air also.

as far as ppl not having probs with it... keep the thing under prolonged boost...beat the crap out of it, test its true reliability, and u shall see... but i dont think most ppl even push their cars as much... it aint pushing the car, creaping through one gear.

and many ppl wouldn't even realize smth happened to their motor....cracked pistons can still sometimes hold compression...so ud never know...

the ring lands on the tl pistons are very weak, and the top ring is too close to the top... they're also domed pistons which dont like boost...such design forces pressure to the outskirts of the piston...well straight for the ring lands... not the same scenarion on a flat piston..

just my take on it... and what ive dealt with

9lbs is too much for the SC....i dont think its capable of pushing any more useful boost beyond 8... additional pressure will only be heat, and u wont make any power, ull just end up leaning ur system out... 16000 rpm is when it starts to lose its efficiency...thats about 8 psi

METH injection is a must!!!!!

I hate cars

Good post! Do you monitor knock now??

In my world (turbo Buicks) we absolutely don't go wide open without a knock detector in the car. As people learned the tuning game in the early 90s, I've watched these cars go from blowing up in the 11s to running 9s on a factory bottom end.

I think most posters on Acurazine would greatly benefit from an education on how things work and the basics of tuning. This board is waaaaay behind every other board I've ever been on as far as tech goes. This is literally at an elementary level as far as knowlege goes. That's why it's nice to have Opel here. I can't wait to see what he does when he turbos his TL... You know you're going to do it eventually lol.

Opel

hahah, thanks for the kind words man...we need more ppl like you ....i simply try to share what ive experienced myself... while some will post what they've heard from their friends about cars, which can be misleading to others...

the most dangerous words in the english dictionary, are "I know".... and no, you dont know until uve done it urself...

some ppl just fear the shit out of being considered as not so important bcs they dont know... so apparently all of the sudden almost everyone knows everything about our "TL" yet we're still so far behind in the most important aspect of performance...especially with boost...."tuning"

so back to ur question... No, im not monitoring the knock sensor...... ive pretty much let the ECU do it.

as far as the turbo goes...we shall see... if my car wasn't my everyday driver...i would've had one long ago ready to get tuned whenever that was cracked... but its hard, having to have the car back up and running the next morning lol....

so ive been focusing on maxing out the SC at its full potential and get as much as i could out of the $4000 lol.... at 6.5 psi, it put down 370 whp on lower compression (9.5:1 pistons, with gas nitrided rings)

right now im at 8.5-9 psi, yet to get a good dyno run... today i attempted, but had probs with a bit of overheating...i did catch a video though lol.. we were focused on watching the heat, aside from everything else, and i had a lean out somwhere along 4-5k rpm or so...and the next step was to change to bigger nozzle but the heating prob stopped me...

i think i got 385 whp, with problems lol

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

what about an intercooler for the s/c TL's?

Opel

meth injection is cheaper, easier to install, more effective, and keeps ur motor from detonating, by raising the octane.

Maddizm

iTrader: (5)

IHC and Opel are definitely valued posters on this board. Anyone reading can easily tell who knows there shit and who doesn't (I fall into the latter category). Thanks, guys. However, is this board just way behind in 3G only or the whole board? I mean it could just be that there were a lack of performance options out there for this car or just Acura in general ? (NSX and RSX notwithstanding). Even, presently, people continue to be conflicted between whether this car is a luxury (and will never be a performer) or a potential race car. But with the turbo kit and the fact that these cars are getting cheaper and many youngins have access to it, I've already seen a spike in some crazy looking and performing TLs. I mean I've been to Civic and Integra forums and those guys all know their shit! But it could just be the fact that anyone that wants to build cars will go for those and not the entry level luxury sedan like the Acura TL. Anyhow, it was just a question I had too... How come this board is behind in all this stuff? So where do I go to learn all this stuff?

apnorm

iTrader: (3)

I've only had my supercharger for about a month so I can't comment on reliability but as for the performance, it's not Z06 quick but it's still fast when compared to a stock TL. I know there are some people who say the performance that you get is not worth what you pay for it but I have no regrets about the upgrade.

One thing I was/am concerned is reliability and from speaking with Opel and I hate cars, I will be adding the meth kit so the supercharger will run cooler.

Good luck with you decision!

siularbar

iTrader: (3)

Great info! A few noob questions:

1) Who makes this meth kit? How much is the meth kit? and which Is this kit just for the blower only?

2) if the Denso IK22 spark plugs are breaking, would going to a different brand, or goto the next higher performance line (if any) help? ie, NGK..

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

i know... i am just wondering though. wouldnt it have an almost similar effect, cooling the intake temps? obvious not the octane difference

Opel

Ok, hers a scenario u might be up against with the IC for the SC.... It will eventually cool down the intake charge, but think about this for a min... As I explained earlier, under normal driving conditions,such as local driving or even highway cruising at minimum throttle opening, very little air travels through, which isn't enough to keep things at a heathy cool temp...the supercharger is a big piece of metal sitting inside ur engine bay with temps of engine bay, air traveling through will heat up since its minimal, it won't even cool down its path,which its biggest downfall is the sc itself wich acts like a big heating element (I measure IATs at 170 degrees)...

now since this is the case, it will heat up the IC also..to the point where.
You will need a good run at a high speed at WOP to start cooling down the SC..now another thing is, the SC makes so much more heat, and it heats up the charged air even more when ur at WOT, meaning in boost (more than a turbo as well)...so imagine how long u gotta run at WOP at a decent speed to start cooling things down..and that's if ur not running through a 90 degree with shit humidity weather. All this while producing more heat...

This is why I'm leaning away from the IC... Another alternative is a water to air IT.. Which would be a bitch and a half to install in our cars...

Methanol injection in the other hand, being sprayed right into the charged air as it rushes through the pipe before the IM has a much more effective cooling ability and it does it quickly ...

After driving localy and IATs reached 165 degrees, I hopped on the highway..it took me about 15 seconds or less to cool it down to 105 degrees..it was about 90 outside...

That wouldn't have happened if I had a FMIC,

Now imagine if I had the enclosed bottle frozen with ice inside, sitting inside the methanol reservoir? . Lol the meth temps wouldve been even much more cooler, resulting in much more effective cooling ability...

I think its become more like a character thing for the car than its effectiveness in some cases... U always hear ppl say..(Oh look at the front mount on that car) ummmmm yeahhh so what??? (It just stands for the fact that ya running boost, which is cool)

So I got a trunk mount that does more, and it does it quicker and it never even gets heat soaked!!!

Even the turbo kit they're trying to have made for the TL, I would run meth injection with it, no hesitation.


I hope I explained well enough why I pick meth injection instead of IC,...at least in our situation. And that's without mentioning the rest of the benefits...detonation control, cooler combustion chamber temps, higher octane combustable mixture.

Opel

There's a few meth injection kits....i use Snow Performance stage II....i run a mix of 50/50 water/meth...a 370 mil/min nozzle (which isn't big enough for me lol)

I got rid of the denso plugs...i also called competch and cursed them out...

now im running NGK plugs...2 steps colder than stock... also running more boost than previously with the denso crap, and just today i checked them... no problems!

EvansTL

Pros:
your car is i little bit faster.
Sounds a little better.

Cons:
Bad MPG
Unreliable
Expensive
High maintanence
HP gains are small

Opel

thats like saying....
i want a very powerful car with exellent mpg
i want a superb handling car with soft suspension
i want max performance tires but quiet and not stiff
I want upgrades to be cheap,
I want the car to be maintenance free...such as like great breaking power, but never have to change any pads or rotors, maybe have one with 1000000 mile oil change intervals,

THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS.... you either pick one or the other

siularbar

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Opel. Where does the tank go? and, what is the part # for those NGK plugs?

Opel

tank can go anywhere you can fit it... mine is in the trunk...

i dont know the part number, but if u call NGK and ask for plugs 2 steps colder, they can give u the number, and u can order them from ur local parts store.

siularbar

iTrader: (3)

Thanks again Opel. I really considered putting in a S/C, but starting to realize how involved this project might become. I am in canada and it gets quite cold in the winter, and how does the tank with 50/50 meth & water hold up in the cold? How difficult was it to put the tank in the trunk and run the lines/pump to the engine bay? the engine bay is already tight! Sorry for the noob questions

siularbar

iTrader: (3)

I did some searching around in the forum last night, and looked for engine issues after the S/C install. A couple of members (SSMTL2NV, and HAMSUP) both had issues with blown engines... I don't mind putting in the $$ for the S/C, but I also want some longitivity on the engine. How much does the meth kit cost anyway (parts & labour)?

Opel

its not hard at all...i mean im mechanically good, but someone with avarage experience could do it too...u have to get into it and do it... cant learn how to swim without going in the water... apply some common sense and ur set...

tank is not hard to mount in the trunk...but again it depends on the application and the kit...tank size,

mine is a gravity fed pump...so the tank sits right on top of the pump (higher than the pump)

i ran the nylon tubing underneath the car along with few wires... u really only need one for the positive, but i brough more just so they're there, and if u wanna install low level switch... u also need a solenoid valve, wired on the pump electrical feed so it operates at thge same time as the pump... because u will be injecting after the throttle body, and the nozzle will be exposed to full vaccum at idle...so without the solenoid, it will just suck all of ur methanol.

its a pretty easy application to do...

my controller sits in the engine bay...connected to power and vaccum line... nozzle is installed on the elbow connecting to the IM between the SC and the IM..

once you have it all in front of you, its not so hard to figure out...and instructions do help also so its not rocket science.

Opel

i blew 2 motors more power to me lmao

meth kits from 300 and up... labor i have no clue cause i do everything myself

I hate cars

I'm on engine number 5. Don't get jealous.

Opel

ahahah never

hamsup

great, thanks

ya, im deffinately having, rattles, pings, tapping, you name it from the top end.
thats what my mechanic said too about the misfire. Could be a dead plug, or the coil package is faulty. Im using stock plugs
its just a pain in the ass to take it all out and check a damn plug..lol

so how do you fix the tapping, or ring lands?
it sounds like a beat up pick-up..lol

Opel

man, i feel sorry for you...not to say the worst, but be prepared for it.... you may have broken piston ring lands on the one thats giving u a misfire... i hope at this point its only the plug or maybe a coil.. but i say this cause of the blower...

get on the street, do a pull...2nd gear...while the car is fully warmed up... stop, pop the hood open the oil cap...see if you have steam/gases blowing out...also pull out the dip stick...see if steam comes out....if its very very little to where u gotta get down close to look at it..its ok... but if its large amount...no good!

u can't just fix broken ring lands...thats pretty much a cracked piston...thats the space between 2 rings...thats cracked/broken....that piston gotta come out and replaced...also gotta check for any cylinder wall scoring... if not... a simple hone and pop the new piston in.

so after checking ur plugs...check ur compression


as far as valves taping... u can get the checked out and readjusted... u will still hear them a little...but thats just how they are

also...what do you mean stock plugs? u mean stock the NGKs that the NA motor uses... or stock from the SC supplied plugs denso IK22 (one step colder than stock)

u should def run colder plugs...at least one step...if ur running the stock motor plugs.

goodluck man... and again...just trying to prepare u for the worst

hamsup

ok..great, thanks man

well last time i checked, i opened the oil cap, there want much steam/gas coming out, just a bit..like a faint smoke almost..but nothing beyond normal..when i took off the check stick, nothing came out..so sofar that seems ok..lol

but i do know its a missfire..as sometimes it seems very sluggish and hesitent off the start, but still pulls fine and has all its power..no major power loss that i can notice.
but my mech, also thought before, maybe its the main engine bearing..i also thought the tapping was the tensioner..but now it appears not to be..
but my check engine light is always on...then after starting the car in the morning, it comes on, then starts flashing about 10 seconds later..
or if im stopped at an intersection, it will start flashing aswell..

im hoping its not too too serious..
i've only got 85,000km on the car
would warranty still cover it? cuz i brought my car to the dealership when i decided to buy out the lease,and this was with the blower in it, and they still added waranty to it..so not sure if its covered or not..hmm