CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

did i hear you correct, you are reusing your crankshaft bearings? please sir, do not put the 3.2 bearings on the 3.5 crank.

lookinco

I am not. I bought a whole new shortblock and transfering everything over.

However, the bearings in the 3.2L and 3.5L are identical. I don't see why you can't reuse them if they are in good conditions.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

oh ok. i was comparing 01-02 MDX bearings vs TL 04-06 bearings. sorry i forgot, you are using 03-06 MDX internals.

i'd replace the bearings anyway for security if it was me. also new connecting rod bolts. this is if you are getting used parts obviously. i know you got brand new shortblock.

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

Honda/Acura uses a very simple way to identify what bearings you need for proper clearances. The block is stamped with five letter codes and the crank is also. With both letters you can determine the right bearing color (hondas way of "size") for the right journals. Just because they are the new ones from the short block doesnt make them right for that appication. The rod bearings will be correct since the short block came from the factory assembled and you are using the crank and rods from that block. Do yourself a favor and install the right bearings. I bought some King bearings for a F22 race build up and it they mic'ed up good but i still ended up spinning a bearing. Never had any problem with the correct oem bearings even on some 600 fwhp turbo'd hondas.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

yea, but he bought a shortblock, so the the crank and everything came assembled with the correct bearings already for that particular crankshaft. he is good. but anyone just buying the crank and rods, should buy new bearings. i did cross reference the part #s and they are the same, but you should still install it w/ new bearings. plus the letter codes can be different.

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

He is using his original block and the main bearing journals are machined different then the mdx block that the crank came in. Chances are he should be ok, would i do it no.

lookinco

I am not using my orginal block. Well I am using the TL block but a brand new one. All crankshaft bearings and rod bearings between the TL and MDX and RL block have identical part numbers, so I would assume they are all made the same and would all fit perfectly especially when all the parts are brand new.

JOES05tl

did you get the ring compressor yet? How far along are we? cant wait till you dyno. Someone needs to package this as a stroker kit and sell all pieces together

lookinco

As of right now we are waiting for the new block to arrive. Hopfully if it arrives tomorrow then it will be off to the machine shop next week. Then we will be able to start putting everything back together and hopfully fire it up at the end of next week or the early week after.

Ka0tik

one questionm, i dont think anybody has asked this but if they have im sorry for the redundancy. all this work and money going into the car is great in my opinion (i love what your doing to ur tl), but it seems like your replacing all of your parts with tl-s or tl-s like parts. y not just get a tl-s?

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

If you are transferring the internals from one block to another block, your mechanic must order the bearings from a stamped code on the block you are going to use. If you don't do this, and the two blocks have different codes, your going to be taking that motor out again and doing it over.

It's the machining process when doing the line bore. Anyway, here are a few pics of what i'm talking about.




In the top right hand part of the pic are 4 letters, CCCC, This is the main bearing that is associated with this block. Not every block will have the same code. The bearings can be bought at acura and you must tell them the letter series on your block.










This is what's stamped on the crank, there are 6 bearing codes stamped on every crank. They are not all the same from crank to crank. Machining processes get it in the ballpark, then they fit it to the nearest color associated with the clearance of that particular journal.







If anyone is looking to follow in his steps, I do have a brandnew rl crank that has been coated. pm me.

lookinco

Oh now I get it! Thanks for the heads up! Learn something new everyday! Hopfully my machine shop will take care of that for me.

How much are you looking to sell your RL crank? Do you have rods or piston to sell as well?

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

Sorry i didnt have the time to explain the color, size chart. I will see if i can print it out for you at work and post it up. Need to get an f'in scanner.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

thinjim nailed it on the head, i think thats what me and ryan were talking about. good job, he would have been pulling the motor again.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

What your going through is a repeat of what I went through, just different cars and years. My problem being that I didn't notice that the length of the rl crankshaft and rl cams were just about 1/2'' shorter as well as the entire front gear assembly of the j motor was slightly different. Your block uses the same length crank and cams as the rl, but has the same transmission bolt pattern as the 03 cl. the later tl's changed to another pattern that matches the rl block.

Anyway, I do have a fully prepared, with matching rod bearings, RL Crank. The crank has been coated to allow the oil to slip right off it. The rod bearings have also been coated by Calico Coatings, google them. If the block your going to use has the same code, then I also have the main bearings for that as well. The issue at hand is if you want this crank, i can take a loss on it as it's not going to work in my particular block. the rods pistons i will not take a loss as it's going to go into that block. It's just that i'm still some time away from completing this and can always reorder and wait for the rest.

Rods: I do have the rods, Pauter, but hadn't contemplated selling them. If you do want them, I won't take a loss on those because I have the time to re order another set and wait a few weeks for them. If you want them, You'll have to pay what I paid, and they very well may have gone up in price a little, If you need them i'm only asking for what i paid. receipt available. They are brand new and have been matched to the bearings for a very presise fitment which is matched to this rl crank.

CP Pistons: Same with the pistons, I hadn't thought about selling those as well. They are expensive and the wait for them is excruciating. I kid you not, I waited for 6 months for those f#$&%$g things. It's not easy getting something like that made. Think of the measurements needed to get the desired compression ratio. There were many measurements made, to much science to detail. The end result is a fine forged piston, with lateral gas ports and comes in at about 9.4:1. The valve releifs are more than adaquate for your choice of cam. I also sent the pistons to Calico to have them coated on the sides with a friction reducing coating and the tops coated with a ceramic to fight off heat. With you being SC, I'm not sure that's the compression ratio your looking for, but IMO it's a good place for a SC motor, low enough to allow more boost and high enough so bottom end torque is compromised. I won't take a loss on these but can take some loss on the coatings. The pistons come with rings, tool steel pins, locks. They are of stock bore, 89mm.

Seems time is a factor for you, but welcome to the mix and match world of honda motors. Those parts were ready to go into my block, but the difference between the cranks threw me under the bus. The crank pictured above is a stock 01-02 mdx/oddesy steel crank. It needs the attention that was given to the RL crank. let me know if you want pictures.

if anyone is needing rl cams, they will fit the tl motor as the length is the same from the tl to the rl, fire me a pm.
Cheers.

lookinco

You got PM.

lookinco

So the new engine block arrived last week and has been sent to the machine shop for crankshaft and piston assembly. Hopfully if everything goes right, we will be able to fire up the TL on saturday if not early next week.

Will update as soon as possible! Stay tuned! I haven't been able to sleep for so long. Finally it's coming along...lol

Recap of what we are adding this time:
3.5L crankshaft + connecting rods
CL TypeS piston with 10.5:1 compression (bigger valve relieve ports for the bigger intake valves in cylinder head)
07 TL TypeS cylinder head (bigger intake valves, hollow camshaft)
Total Seal Piston rings
Dr.Evil custom torque converter
Snow performance variable controller
Split Second ESC1 (possible fix to the supercharger surging issue)

We are going to use the stock 4.5lb pulley for the supercharger and get the TL up and running first. Then we will hook up the E-manage Ultimate and get it tuned. The last step would be to use the 8lb high boost pulley if everything goes right.

pohljm

^^^^ I am not understanding how the weight of the pulley relates to the boost capabilities, I am assuming that a higher boost pulley would be of a smaller diameter and would actually be lighter if made of the same materials. I am not all that familiar with the intricacies of this technology, so am I missing something here?

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

Bro he is talking about the boost capabilities of the pulleys not their weight, they are small so the weight wouldn't really matter anyway. The stock Comptech supercharger pulley provides around 4.5 lbs of boost. Comptech also has a high boost pulley which will give you about 8 lbs of boost this pulley is smaller in diameter and provides more power so you were right about that. Lookinco has both but he wants to be safe so he is going with his stock Comptech pulley to test out the new motor first, plus he needs to tinker with computer/fuel management first.

By the way lookinco great going, good luck and keep us posted, great thread!

jiggaman

this project is crazy!

pohljm

DOH! do i feel like an idiot! I have always been thinking in psi, not lbs I thought the high boost pulley was like 10 psi, its only 8? Wow, so for the standard setup that is like 1k$ per # of boost ? I guess I like the 75$ per 1 horsepower figure, somehow it sounds better!

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

You are right in that we should refer to the amount of pounds of boost the supercharger provides in pound per square inch or psi and not in units of mass or lb. Understandably this is confusing since it seems like we are talking about weight, what a blunder on our part.

As far as force induction being expensive I agree it's a costly option always has, is and will be but there are more expensive kits out there with similar results plus when you exhausted all other means of obtaining power short of increase in displacement from a moderately powerful NA engine, FI is the only way to go if you crave more power. It's not the worst thing to spend your money on, you could do much worse. FI is intoxicating!

baysic tl

you say the stock type s cams have a bigger profile right?....since you are leading this some what all motor build up, do you think the type s cams would work in a 3.2 block without the type s heads?

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

3 new pages and great info. This is the kinda of stuff you copy,paste and print out to read over and over again. i was never good with internals but this is definitely a good start as far as learning about the TL capabilities. I know this car isn't going anywhere and time soon so I need to learn all i can like i did with my previous hondas

chirik

Good luck

BTW, I was talking to 02AV6 (the one who runs 12.8 @109mph in his hybrid 3.2L Accord V6 with blower ) and I'm thinking to do the following for my 5AT:

1. Get '04 MDX 3.5L cyl. block and swap it's pistons with '03 CL Type S to lower compression a bit.
2. 2 new head gaskets.
3. RL cams or TL-S cams (whichever less). Not much difference in lift vs. regular TL but I just want it and getting a good deal on it.
4. Get the blower kit with regular pulley in the future.

Thanks 02AV6 for advice

lookinco

Just so you know, the MDX block will NOT work.

chirik

Are you sure? I know 6MT won't fit but I have 5AT and seems it bolt right up on J35A5 (MDX) block. The bore is the same and the oil return is the same as TL.
TL heads should fit right in as well

lookinco

Yep, everything will fit inside the MDX block. The head will bolt right up. The problem is, your AT will NOT bolt up to the MDX block.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

There are some things about the 3rd gen tl that i don't know much about, but sounds like lookinco ran into some of the same problems i did when working on this swap. I have the cl. It sounds like you guys use almost the same block as ours, as the tranny bolt pattern is different, to help out, here are a couple pics to show the difference.

this is the back of an 03 and up mdx block.





This is the back of an 01-03 CL block and shares the same part number as the 01-02 mdx block, notice the difference in the bolt pattern and casting. Everything else in the 03 and up block will work in the 3rd gen tl motor but won't work in the cl motor, shorter cams, crank, and other things.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

Been thinking about it...and one other thing for lookinco, the 3rd gen tl and 03 and up mdx have a kidney shaped oil return cast into the deck of the block, I'm not sure, but if you ended up getting a block to fit your tranny, i don't think that block will have that kidney shaped oil return I'm speaking of and therefore don't know it the heads your wanting to use will line up properly. I'll try to find a pic of what I'm talking about for later, just a thought.

lookinco

Right now I am using a 06 TL block but with the 3.5L internals. The 07 TL-S head bolted right up without any problem and also bolt right up to the AT transmission.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

imo, i think this is the best option. way to go, hopefully you have it done before the new year.

lookinco

Will be done by the end of this week. Stay tuned!

lookinco

The engine is finally back in the TL!! Unfortunately I am going away for 2 weeks for christmas and new years so I would not be able to give an update until I am back. I can't wait till I am back to start breaking in the engine. Everything fit back into the TL perfectly, so hopfully it will run nice and smooth.

Ka0tik

congratz, and i hope the engine works flawlessly

pohljm

Sometimes those late presents are the best presents you can get

chirik

I don't see how if they both have similar 5AT design with the same bolt pattern as I heard. It should fit right in vs. 6MT which is diffferent.

lookinco

You need to do some better research. There are 3 people including me who have TRIED IT and the reuslt is that the MDX block WOULD NOT WORK. However if you want you can go ahead and try. If you are interested, I have a brand new MDX bare block lying around that I could sell to you for $200.

BTW, the MDX and 04-06 TL DO NOT have a similar 5AT design and the bolt pattern is NOT the same. I don't see how you guys would think the AT would bolt up to the MDX block while the MT won't. The 04-06TL uses the same block for both AT and MT. If the MT would bolt up to the block, than the AT would also bolt up to the block because it's the SAME BLOCK. So if the MT won't bolt up, than the AT would NOT bolt up as well.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

congrats! hope to see some pics soon