eclypse

Wife's car hit 150k and celebrated by chewing the timing belt in a way I've never even heard of. Now I havent turned a bolt on this car, other than maintenance, because if I'm out of town (all the time) she'll have a shop do it. She "doesnt want this car unreliable" because all of my cars become rolling projects.

Well, the last 2 things a shop did resulted in her wheel falling clean off (used wrong ball joint) and now the timing belt being digested.




I'd ironically already ordered a full strut, bushing, end link, etc suspension refresh when the timing belt did this.

So now I figured I'd refresh that while I was at it. Engine is all pulled apart, and I've never touched a J32A3 before, so I dont want to break out the grinder and burs til at least attempting some research on these heads - which I cant find info for ANYWHERE. Questions are as follows:
1) Are there any links to people who've done their own p&p on these heads? (i do my own to all of my domestics, but there's plenty of info for them online). I searched, i really did. No info, or I'm using the wrong words. I think I'll just hit them with the sand paper and not even break out a burr. They really arent even that bad from the factory..
2) is it worth it porting the lower intake manifolds?
3) i saw that a pre-cat delete is popular - but is there any reason to do that vs simply cutting the factory one open, hollowing it out, and welding it back up?
4) any guesses what the hell did that to the timing belt? just removed the rear head, havent looked to see if something seized up.

Thanks for any info!

eclypse

And where can you order valve springs for these engines from? I'm used to summit and jegs. I have no idea what the import equivalence for these cars is.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

order from honda if you want reliable valve springs, You might need to order a whole set of valves. Seems like your better off with a new/used donor motor.

PnP is worth it especially if you gasket match the runners and head. They are not gasket matched.

As for hollowing the stock cat. You could do that but the diamension are still smaller then after market PCD. I took measurement of stock Precats vs HFPC. There is a .5in-.75in different between inlet and outlet.

Sonnick

Search in the Second Gen CL section of the forum for "Yungone." He has ported the J32a2 heads, which are very similar to the a3 heads. That will be a good starting point.

It would be very beneficial, as Ken said, to port the lower manifold and port-match it to the head. You have no other mods on the car? I'm assuming you aren't trying to do more bolt ons by what you said in your first post, but the heads should still give you some good power.

eclypse

i was planning on doing the typical head/cam approach, but it seems cams arent even made for this car. im just not tossing regrinds into a daily driver. if it were my only car for having fun, i would, but this is our go-to reliable car. the lack of options for this car is

so yea i think ill leave it at a simple port matching and polish. and that's really only because it'd be a shame not to while i'm here.

thanks for the info, gents.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Pull the head and check to see if there is any piston to valve contact. Minimum damage would be a few valves are dead. Worst case is that there is a hole in the piston.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

You could use the TLS, 05+ RL or 07+ MDX cams. Check out L_love_cars thread about his engine build, he had King motorsports do some PnP work. You could contact them they are very helpful, from talking to them opening the runners on these heads seems to really help because they have more valve area then runner area. There is information out there but you have to dig for it.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

Just so you know, regrinding a TL cam isn't a reliability issue. They use a steel core cam with excellent hardening from the factory, as is the case for every Honda cam I've ever heard of. Webcams doesn't even send them back to Honda for re-hardening, and in 30 years of building nothing but Honda engines, King Motorsports has never had a cam regrind break.

As far as cams go, these are one of the few that you can safely regrind and not worry about losing too much of the factory hardening.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Its just a guess from me, but the 05-08 TLs all have a TSB on them for a timing belt shim.

Essentially the TSB states that the idler pulley mounting surface is tilted causing the timing belt to rub against the side of the drive pulley.

The shim kit is P/N: 04148-RCA-305 for 2005 TLs

And P/N: 04148-RCA-306 for 06-09 TLs

It includes a shim, timing belt and timing belt drive pulley.

I could see if maybe it didn't have a shim (it would be installed underneath the idler pulley) it could've eaten up the belt and caused that. The car would've made a warbling sound, coming from the side of the engine near the timing belt. Its a pretty distinct sound.

If you check out the garage, under the TSBs its 08-031 and it has an audio clip of the warble in it.

fsttyms1

I ported and polished my heads j32a2 heads. I would definitely do it. Just because its a Honda/Acura doesnt mean its any different than what you are used to. I would gasket match your lower manifolds to your heads and port and polish the intake side for sure, and polish as much as you can with the exhaust. U used burs and stones to open them up first. I was able to remove a LOT of material.





Where the lower im meets the head you can see the amount in red that needs to be removed




As for cams, i have 09 3.7 MDX cams in mine.

eclypse

thisaznboi88: first pic posted is a head sitting on my garage floor. a few valves dont seal, just from age and 150k miles of high speed, but nothing is damaged.


ilove: man it still makes me pucker. whats the highest mileage a regrind user has seen? i dont want to break this thing open for another 100k if i can help it!

mzilvar: definitely going to check that out. the guy that did this while i was out of town isnt an idiot, so im hoping its something like that.

fsttyms1: where were you the 3 hours i was searching! thanks for the pics and info. where'd you actually acquire your cams from?

have you guys with the other factory cams (the RL, MDX, etc) ever dyno'ed the cars to find if the factory ECU is making good use of it? or run a wideband? what are you guys doing as far as the tune?

thanks for the info! i know this car isnt a highly modded car in the global landscape, so i wasnt sure what to expect from the forums. glad to see there's people out there who tinkered with theirs, too

fsttyms1

I got my cams from my local dealer. I bought so much stuff converting my 3.2 to a 3.7 he gave them to me for a steal. Otherwise look at the site below under cyl heads. There are some good deals for loaded heads to get the cams and heads cheap. The 3.7 cams are hollow.

http://www.car-part.com/

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

still waiting to see the finished product of your project.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

fsttyms1 !3.7 build thread! please

eclypse

ive used car-part for years, but even checking there, the nearest heads are ~200 miles away and would be over $500. Might as well fork out the extra for Bisimoto's if I go that route.

Did you guys replace the valve guides in your heads when you had them out? If so, where'd you get those from?

fsttyms1

Its in this thread. (towards the last few pages)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...636644&page=30

fsttyms1

Its finished to the point its running. I still have the Dual TB intake mani and long tubes to make and get a way to tune it.

I have about 200 miles on it. Here is the throttle response

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

@eclypse your very lucky that there was only minor damage.

Just get the J37a1 cams they are like 350 new, and TL-S exhaust springs. Also replace all the valve seals, and take it to a machine shop to have it PnP and 5 angle valve job. That's what I am doing with my TL-S head. Also gasket matching the intake side with the runners.

eclypse

yea, thats kind of my standard recipe. but when i called the acura dealer to get the valve guides, they said that unless there was a damage reason, that he's never in his 12 years seen them done for maintenance. seems kind of.. impossible to me.. but whatever. only took ~2 hours to get everything out, and ive never done it before, so i guess its not the end of the world doing it again.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

so 2 hours to take off the heads?

eclypse

maybe a little more, but not a whole lot more. hardest part was the stupid sensor connectors!

having a lift helps, though. like for the exhaust manifolds, it was kinda nice having it there.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Thanks man. I am going to install my TL-S heads and was wondering how much time I should set aside to do it.

eclypse

i'd budget 3-4, just to plan on dumb things happening that always happen, or those times you second guess yourself and want to look it up. im replacing all of the hoses, so those got hose-puller removed (looks like a curved ice pick). a few sensors i just said "yea, you're going back on with a zip tie" and broke the plastic tab after giving up on it, things like that. but this is my ~8th car to tinker in the guts with, so i know where i can gore things, and where i need to take a breather and approach it differently.

have patience. and tools. and the book the Lisle flexible hose clamp remover was kinda handy, too.

oh, and a note that the book doesnt make terribly clear: the coolant pipe thing between the two heads, connects to both. in the haynes, it said "whack it with a hammer" or something. do that last. and loosen the exhaust manifolds before you take the head bolts off - that way the heads will hold the stupid exhaust while you work. and even the manual calls for using a penetrating oil - use a 50/50 acetone/transmission fluid mix. if you want to be fancy, you can buy air-compressor fed aerosolizer cans, and actually spray the stuff.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

thanks man. I did my dad MDX timing belt and it was a bitch. so I am kinda like ugh ugh ugh. lol

Just a heads up if you planning on getting hondata i talked to heel toe and his doing a groupbuy with 8% discount. on here. Might be worth the money since you are doing head work and adding cams.

eclypse

kinda torn on the cams. when i asked, i had no idea the price that parts for this engine were going for! i just wanted to add a little more pep to the wife's car while it was torn apart, but the cost for what you get is horrible on this platform. $700+ for a mild cam?!

this winter, we're going to be transplanting an LS1 onto a Porsche frame and dropping her Karmann Ghia on top of it.. so im just going to port/polish and freshen it up and get it out of the garage.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

There is no cheap way to put cams in the J series compared to and LS1

eclypse

yea.. even with the Nissan 4 cylinders I've built, using Brian Crower valvetrains, the J series is still insanely expensive. You'd think I'm trying to turbo a mercedes

i just thought it'd be cool to have a 315+ bhp 4 door Acura, but bloody hell.. ~280 or whatever it is. that last 35hp is over $2000 if you do full exhaust and cams. the Honda tax is worse than the Corvette tax, go figure.