My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
10-06-2012, 11:43 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
fenda,
Here is a list of what i bought - note that I got a spare IM Gasket just to be prepared - I don't like downtime and when my car is apart, I want to know I have everything to put it back together, especially with gaskets when I have no idea what the old gasket is gonna look like when I pull it out. If the gasket is in good shape, you could potentially re-use it, just remember though that if you're gonna port your runners, you'll want to gasket-match as well, so I'd want the spare gasket just in case.
As a general rule, I always replace gaskets when I take something apart that uses one. The only exception I'm making for this project is the cover plate gasket.
Here is a full list of my order confirmation:
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) 4 $0.19 $0.76
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) 4 $0.88 $3.52
17105-RCJ-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD 1 $36.75 $36.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) 4 $0.81 $3.24
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 1 $224.75 $224.75
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY 3 $0.47 $1.41
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) 1 $192.54 $192.54
Some people also get spare bolts for their IM because it's easy to over-torque. I use a digital torque wrench so I am not too concerned, but if you don't have something exact, you may want to order a few in case you snap one and need to tap it and replace.
If you wanted to try and re-use your MDX spacer...i would just get an TB gasket because they are only 47 cents each, and dyno it first with the stock gasket...then put the MDX spacer on and see what happens.
Here is a list of what i bought - note that I got a spare IM Gasket just to be prepared - I don't like downtime and when my car is apart, I want to know I have everything to put it back together, especially with gaskets when I have no idea what the old gasket is gonna look like when I pull it out. If the gasket is in good shape, you could potentially re-use it, just remember though that if you're gonna port your runners, you'll want to gasket-match as well, so I'd want the spare gasket just in case.
As a general rule, I always replace gaskets when I take something apart that uses one. The only exception I'm making for this project is the cover plate gasket.
Here is a full list of my order confirmation:
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) 4 $0.19 $0.76
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) 4 $0.88 $3.52
17105-RCJ-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD 1 $36.75 $36.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) 4 $0.81 $3.24
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 1 $224.75 $224.75
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY 3 $0.47 $1.41
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) 1 $192.54 $192.54
Some people also get spare bolts for their IM because it's easy to over-torque. I use a digital torque wrench so I am not too concerned, but if you don't have something exact, you may want to order a few in case you snap one and need to tap it and replace.
If you wanted to try and re-use your MDX spacer...i would just get an TB gasket because they are only 47 cents each, and dyno it first with the stock gasket...then put the MDX spacer on and see what happens.
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10-06-2012, 05:12 PM
#42
All motor
You will gain midrange with the MDX spacer and lose top end. There is a dyno of an Accord on v*6*p. It was Atlas on here, he wil tell you. I think he gained 6-8whp/tq in the 3-4500 range but lost just as much after 6k.
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MyadidaS33 (02-14-2024)
10-08-2012, 08:23 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
damn that's nice. I'm still waiting for my parts to be delivered. Del Ray had to source something from Honda's warehouse so hopefully it still all ships this week.
10-09-2012, 10:43 AM
#51
All motor
Now tell everyone how light it is 
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hondazex (10-09-2012)
10-09-2012, 12:12 PM
#52
Yup gained more mid range tq and it did start to fall off around 6k. Peak hp dropped while peak tq increased from 230/197 to 227/200. All the big gains were low/mid range.
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Sonnick (10-09-2012)
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Sonnick (10-10-2012)
10-10-2012, 08:24 AM
#56
All motor
It's around a 9lb difference between manifolds. I picked it up and was definitely shocked.
10-10-2012, 09:01 AM
#57
sonnick, pearl, the weight difference is between the TL 3.7 Manifold and which one?
I_love_cars and to room
why the TL 3.7 and not the ZDX 3.7? is there a weight difference? or some other differnce? part #s are not the same nor is the cost
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 2012 $225
17160-RYE-A10 MANIFOLD, IN. 2012 ZDX $185
I know $40 aint much but was curious if there were benefits or anything else...
the ZDX TB seems like a no brainer since it is $193 vs $500 but then I was thinking wouldnt the ZDX manifold be better with the TB?
Also since I have a n 04 6mt the ZDX cover is cheaper
at $129.. same price as the 08 TL cover same part # too
and again price aint too much of a factor but I would rather take anything I save and put it to other mods...
I_love_cars and to room
why the TL 3.7 and not the ZDX 3.7? is there a weight difference? or some other differnce? part #s are not the same nor is the cost
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 2012 $225
17160-RYE-A10 MANIFOLD, IN. 2012 ZDX $185
I know $40 aint much but was curious if there were benefits or anything else...
the ZDX TB seems like a no brainer since it is $193 vs $500 but then I was thinking wouldnt the ZDX manifold be better with the TB?
Also since I have a n 04 6mt the ZDX cover is cheaper
at $129.. same price as the 08 TL cover same part # tooand again price aint too much of a factor but I would rather take anything I save and put it to other mods...
10-10-2012, 10:47 AM
#58
All motor
The weight difference of the 3.7 manifold and stock TL/Accord manifold. I'm not sure of the differences (if any) of the TL/ZDX intake manifold. Good catch though, could be more potential savings! I spent way more than I need to on this mod. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
10-10-2012, 12:03 PM
#59
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
3.7 TL manifold over ZDX manifold because the hype has been around the TL manifold.
I'm basically looking to prove out the hype of gains from the 3.7 TL manifold on our 3rd gens, and see how much can be gained from supporting mods.
It is already a known known that the 3.7 TL manifold will bolt up to the 3G TL, too.
I'm basically looking to prove out the hype of gains from the 3.7 TL manifold on our 3rd gens, and see how much can be gained from supporting mods.
It is already a known known that the 3.7 TL manifold will bolt up to the 3G TL, too.
10-10-2012, 01:26 PM
#61
All motor
Since I gained 15whp/6wtq on my 3.0L, I'm going to guess 19whp/9wtq on the 3.5L. Of course this is with the gasket matched 3.7 manifold, ported runners, and bored ZDX throttle body. With a larger CAI (4" preferably), I will assume another 8-9whp.
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JJH (08-12-2013)
10-10-2012, 04:40 PM
#63
All motor
Precisely.
10-10-2012, 04:51 PM
#64
Is it better to put the AIT in the CAI or route it to the bumper? I have seen it done both ways. Also, where did you find the bung to weld into the CAI? I took measurements and it is m12 1.5 but I am having trouble finding one. I wish I had the AEM CAI with the bung already in place...
10-10-2012, 04:57 PM
#65
Safety Car
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Last 3 code different by 1 number
A00 vs A01
10-10-2012, 05:55 PM
#66
Is it better to put the AIT in the CAI or route it to the bumper? I have seen it done both ways. Also, where did you find the bung to weld into the CAI? I took measurements and it is m12 1.5 but I am having trouble finding one. I wish I had the AEM CAI with the bung already in place...
10-10-2012, 10:58 PM
#68
All motor
You don't need a larger CAI, but you will definitely make more power with it.
10-11-2012, 03:20 AM
#69
10-11-2012, 05:09 AM
#70
Is the zdx manifold compatible like the tl manifold?
10-11-2012, 08:27 AM
#71
All motor
I can't see the ZDX being incompatible. Considering the block is the same 3.7 as the TL and the throttle body is the same bolt pattern. Not sure how large the opening of the intake manifold is, but I can't imagine it being less considering it makes within 5whp of the TL.
10-11-2012, 11:06 PM
#72
Racer
I see a port right there on your IM. There is a bolt on it. I Unless that is just the regular J35 one. I did some research before and the 2009 RL IM has 2 different IM. One has a spot for the sensor and one doesn't
Last 3 code different by 1 number
A00 vs A01
Last 3 code different by 1 number
A00 vs A01
very good point about that bolt ! i guess it just plugs the hole and it can be used for IAT
Last edited by Type S Zero; 10-11-2012 at 11:10 PM.
10-12-2012, 09:26 PM
#73
10-12-2012, 10:52 PM
#74
Racer
refering to the squares on top of the IM casting + hole for IAT, i just looked at EVERY V6 IM parts schematics on oemacuraparts.com and the IM pearlUA7 posted with the IAT on CAI, comes from either :
- 05-08 RL 3.5L
- 07-08 TL 3.2L
- 07+ MDX 3.7L / 10+ ZDX 3.7L
All others are different (even all Honda's are different)
for IAT install, if any of you have no clue where, depending on the IM you are using, you can simply drill a hole in the intake pipe just before the TB, and use a washer + nut from the inside with some sealant around sensor/intake hole.
- 05-08 RL 3.5L
- 07-08 TL 3.2L
- 07+ MDX 3.7L / 10+ ZDX 3.7L
All others are different (even all Honda's are different)
for IAT install, if any of you have no clue where, depending on the IM you are using, you can simply drill a hole in the intake pipe just before the TB, and use a washer + nut from the inside with some sealant around sensor/intake hole.
10-13-2012, 06:53 AM
#75
All motor
That pic is the stock intake manifold. Just saying...look at the difference from the pic posted in the middle of the page of the 3.7...it's much different.
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pearlUA7 (10-13-2012)
10-15-2012, 12:58 AM
#77
Let me start by saying I've been researching this heavily on the forums over the past couple weeks. Aside from stage 1 cams, this is the last set of modifications I want to do to my car, as you can see in my sig I have the rest of the main bolt-ons already.
What I've noticed is that we have a lack of dyno charts and overall lack of experience on this because of how new the 3.7 manifold is to our 3G community. While a few people have done up some great PnP stuff over the past few years like Andy, Anil, and Sonnick, I feel like we're just now picking up momentum and visibility to the 4G manifold option and only a select couple people have done it.
That being said, I had a long talk with the service manager at King Motorsports this morning. They are very local to me (about 5 miles away). They were a bit dismissive when I first started talking to them, citing that the j-series doesn't get much out of PnP without headwork unless you can port the whole Intake manifold. That's the reason their website only offers a bored TB solution and TB/IM port matching for j-series, but nothing more. Once the guy realized I'm not a complete idiot, though, he changed his tune as we started talking specs and considerations when doing intake work.
So because I need to have my car running as my daily driver, here's what I'm going to do:
Today I'm going to order the 3.7 manifold and ZDX TB. Once they arrive, I will install and take it over to King for a dyno chart with no modifications to the mani/tb. I should have a good point of reference for how much power they will gain because I was dyno'd just 2 months ago and still have all the same mods. Makes me glad I did that because otherwise we would have no idea how much power was from those vs. all my other mods, lol.
In the meantime I'm gonna try to source a spare set of stock runners, so if anyone stumbles upon a set for my type-s on the cheap, let me know.
After dyno and I have a spare set of runners, I'll re-install my stock parts and I will be working with King to get the spare stock runners, the 3.7 mani and zdx TB on their bench to figure out how it can be best optimized.
Obviously I want my car to be faster, but my other goal in this is to clear up some of the bullshit on the forums. I see a lot of people who are incredulous of the potential gains of improving the overall intake and flow of air combined with good exhaust mods, short of headwork. I want to see for myself what the j-series can do with comparison dynos and the final word from a reputed shop like King Motorsports.
What I've noticed is that we have a lack of dyno charts and overall lack of experience on this because of how new the 3.7 manifold is to our 3G community. While a few people have done up some great PnP stuff over the past few years like Andy, Anil, and Sonnick, I feel like we're just now picking up momentum and visibility to the 4G manifold option and only a select couple people have done it.
That being said, I had a long talk with the service manager at King Motorsports this morning. They are very local to me (about 5 miles away). They were a bit dismissive when I first started talking to them, citing that the j-series doesn't get much out of PnP without headwork unless you can port the whole Intake manifold. That's the reason their website only offers a bored TB solution and TB/IM port matching for j-series, but nothing more. Once the guy realized I'm not a complete idiot, though, he changed his tune as we started talking specs and considerations when doing intake work.
So because I need to have my car running as my daily driver, here's what I'm going to do:
Today I'm going to order the 3.7 manifold and ZDX TB. Once they arrive, I will install and take it over to King for a dyno chart with no modifications to the mani/tb. I should have a good point of reference for how much power they will gain because I was dyno'd just 2 months ago and still have all the same mods. Makes me glad I did that because otherwise we would have no idea how much power was from those vs. all my other mods, lol.
In the meantime I'm gonna try to source a spare set of stock runners, so if anyone stumbles upon a set for my type-s on the cheap, let me know.
After dyno and I have a spare set of runners, I'll re-install my stock parts and I will be working with King to get the spare stock runners, the 3.7 mani and zdx TB on their bench to figure out how it can be best optimized.
Obviously I want my car to be faster, but my other goal in this is to clear up some of the bullshit on the forums. I see a lot of people who are incredulous of the potential gains of improving the overall intake and flow of air combined with good exhaust mods, short of headwork. I want to see for myself what the j-series can do with comparison dynos and the final word from a reputed shop like King Motorsports.
But am I the only one here paying any real attention?
" I was dynod just 2 months ago? "
If your going to make a thread showing true gains then you should dyno b4 mod and right after mod ( same day ) to get a truly accurate reading.
I have been on dynos probably 500 more times than 99% of the ppl on this forum and let me tell you same exact car same exact mods never ever makes same power the very next day......let alone 2mths in between ! So " I love cars " do every1 a favour dyno the car and then slap the mani/tb on right after and re dyno. When doing b4/after dynos usually I do 3 pulls b4 and 3 after to ensure correct data.
Last edited by TLOHTL; 10-15-2012 at 01:01 AM.
10-15-2012, 11:07 AM
#78
All motor
^ While that's true, a car will never make the same power back to back either. As long as the correction factor is the same (SAE vs SAE or STD vs STD), it shouldn't make much of a difference between dynos done a day or a month apart. Of course it'd be ideal, but not everyone can make that happen.
10-15-2012, 11:58 AM
#79
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Ok this is interesting I will have a eye on this forsure.
But am I the only one here paying any real attention?
" I was dynod just 2 months ago? "
If your going to make a thread showing true gains then you should dyno b4 mod and right after mod ( same day ) to get a truly accurate reading.
I have been on dynos probably 500 more times than 99% of the ppl on this forum and let me tell you same exact car same exact mods never ever makes same power the very next day......let alone 2mths in between ! So " I love cars " do every1 a favour dyno the car and then slap the mani/tb on right after and re dyno. When doing b4/after dynos usually I do 3 pulls b4 and 3 after to ensure correct data.
But am I the only one here paying any real attention?
" I was dynod just 2 months ago? "
If your going to make a thread showing true gains then you should dyno b4 mod and right after mod ( same day ) to get a truly accurate reading.
I have been on dynos probably 500 more times than 99% of the ppl on this forum and let me tell you same exact car same exact mods never ever makes same power the very next day......let alone 2mths in between ! So " I love cars " do every1 a favour dyno the car and then slap the mani/tb on right after and re dyno. When doing b4/after dynos usually I do 3 pulls b4 and 3 after to ensure correct data.
You'll note that's why I said in my original post, immediately before the dyno comment, that I should have a "pretty good point of reference", which is very true. It isn't as exacting but 2 months apart on the dyno isn't a huge deal unless my car magically endured some sort of massive compression loss that would significantly change power.
I mean, by your logic, there would be no real way to measure the gains of doing a PnP and portmatch because realistically you aren't going to do all that back to back, lol. You're saying there would be no way to accurately tell what the TRUE gains are of adding PnP to the 3.7 Mani/TB and stock runners, because realistically after I dyno with just the base 3.7 IM/TB, I have to give all the parts to King and let them do their thing which will take days for sure, then get the parts back, and let the ECU adjust, and at that point there's at least 2 weeks of time between dynos probably, if nothing else due to scheduling conflicts because King Motorsports may or may not have dyno time immediately available.
Secondly, we have a self-learning ECU on this car. Doing a pull right now, and then immediately swapping the IM/TB back to back with another dyno pull isn't necessarily that much better. You have to remember the ECU takes time to adjust to that, just as it does if you were to add free-flowing exhaust mods. My plan is to install the parts and drive around for a few days to let the ECU adjust, then go dyno.
And to Sonnick's point, I do not have the time necessarily to go dyno, then slap stuff on and dyno again in the same day, back to back. I'm right in the middle of prepping one of my rental properties for sale, and as of about 3 hours ago I have to sacrifice my Saturday to go to a different property and replace a window. Saturday was to be my day to swap the parts on, so now I have to find other time.
Parts are being delivered today, and hopefully this week I will able to squeeze an evening to install.
10-15-2012, 12:26 PM
#80
Not exactly.
You'll note that's why I said in my original post, immediately before the dyno comment, that I should have a "pretty good point of reference", which is very true. It isn't as exacting but 2 months apart on the dyno isn't a huge deal unless my car magically endured some sort of massive compression loss that would significantly change power.
I mean, by your logic, there would be no real way to measure the gains of doing a PnP and portmatch because realistically you aren't going to do all that back to back, lol. You're saying there would be no way to accurately tell what the TRUE gains are of adding PnP to the 3.7 Mani/TB and stock runners, because realistically after I dyno with just the base 3.7 IM/TB, I have to give all the parts to King and let them do their thing which will take days for sure, then get the parts back, and let the ECU adjust, and at that point there's at least 2 weeks of time between dynos probably, if nothing else due to scheduling conflicts because King Motorsports may or may not have dyno time immediately available.
Secondly, we have a self-learning ECU on this car. Doing a pull right now, and then immediately swapping the IM/TB back to back with another dyno pull isn't necessarily that much better. You have to remember the ECU takes time to adjust to that, just as it does if you were to add free-flowing exhaust mods. My plan is to install the parts and drive around for a few days to let the ECU adjust, then go dyno.
And to Sonnick's point, I do not have the time necessarily to go dyno, then slap stuff on and dyno again in the same day, back to back. I'm right in the middle of prepping one of my rental properties for sale, and as of about 3 hours ago I have to sacrifice my Saturday to go to a different property and replace a window. Saturday was to be my day to swap the parts on, so now I have to find other time.
Parts are being delivered today, and hopefully this week I will able to squeeze an evening to install.
You'll note that's why I said in my original post, immediately before the dyno comment, that I should have a "pretty good point of reference", which is very true. It isn't as exacting but 2 months apart on the dyno isn't a huge deal unless my car magically endured some sort of massive compression loss that would significantly change power.
I mean, by your logic, there would be no real way to measure the gains of doing a PnP and portmatch because realistically you aren't going to do all that back to back, lol. You're saying there would be no way to accurately tell what the TRUE gains are of adding PnP to the 3.7 Mani/TB and stock runners, because realistically after I dyno with just the base 3.7 IM/TB, I have to give all the parts to King and let them do their thing which will take days for sure, then get the parts back, and let the ECU adjust, and at that point there's at least 2 weeks of time between dynos probably, if nothing else due to scheduling conflicts because King Motorsports may or may not have dyno time immediately available.
Secondly, we have a self-learning ECU on this car. Doing a pull right now, and then immediately swapping the IM/TB back to back with another dyno pull isn't necessarily that much better. You have to remember the ECU takes time to adjust to that, just as it does if you were to add free-flowing exhaust mods. My plan is to install the parts and drive around for a few days to let the ECU adjust, then go dyno.
And to Sonnick's point, I do not have the time necessarily to go dyno, then slap stuff on and dyno again in the same day, back to back. I'm right in the middle of prepping one of my rental properties for sale, and as of about 3 hours ago I have to sacrifice my Saturday to go to a different property and replace a window. Saturday was to be my day to swap the parts on, so now I have to find other time.
Parts are being delivered today, and hopefully this week I will able to squeeze an evening to install.
I too am interested in this mod and I would appreciate b4/after of the 3.7 remaining stock. Thanks!