My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
11-19-2013, 08:56 PM
#721
Why you NEED to own an HDS if you've got the 3.7L throttle body.
The HDS allows you to calibrate new throttle bodies specifically for your vehicle. Before having this calibration, I had parking lot bucking, very touchy pedal, inconsistent idle return when coming to a stop (car would go down to 1200RPMs and then 750RPMs), and shifting felt like shit because of the exaggerated rev hang caused by the throttle body.
After adjusting the throttle body, all of these problems disappeared and the car drives/shifts/sounds like it should. I hated how the car sounded in between shifts with the exaggerated rev hang.
Short and simple, you're going to adjust the idle screw found on top of the throttle body while monitoring the "data lists" variables in the HDS found under the PGMFI menu. 3.7 throttle position sensor A value should read .90-.92 by default. You need to turn the adjustment screw counterclockwise until that voltage drops to .88 . After doing so, you're going to run two different calibration/inspection procedures found in the same PGMFI menu. Your problems should disappear after this. ..........
The HDS allows you to calibrate new throttle bodies specifically for your vehicle. Before having this calibration, I had parking lot bucking, very touchy pedal, inconsistent idle return when coming to a stop (car would go down to 1200RPMs and then 750RPMs), and shifting felt like shit because of the exaggerated rev hang caused by the throttle body.
After adjusting the throttle body, all of these problems disappeared and the car drives/shifts/sounds like it should. I hated how the car sounded in between shifts with the exaggerated rev hang.
Short and simple, you're going to adjust the idle screw found on top of the throttle body while monitoring the "data lists" variables in the HDS found under the PGMFI menu. 3.7 throttle position sensor A value should read .90-.92 by default. You need to turn the adjustment screw counterclockwise until that voltage drops to .88 . After doing so, you're going to run two different calibration/inspection procedures found in the same PGMFI menu. Your problems should disappear after this. ..........
Rubenders says that the ZDX comes from factory set at 1.25v .... He says that the 3.5 was set a .90v previous to removal.
11-19-2013, 09:15 PM
#722
That's not quite true. I'm having all the same issues with my '08 3.2 TL 5AT. As well as some others I know.
What baffles me is that some have installed the same parts with no problems from the get go. So if it's programing why are some cars affected and some aren't... wouldn't it be ALL affected until changed with FlashPro, Hondata, Hondata 4 bar etc?
What baffles me is that some have installed the same parts with no problems from the get go. So if it's programing why are some cars affected and some aren't... wouldn't it be ALL affected until changed with FlashPro, Hondata, Hondata 4 bar etc?
11-19-2013, 09:34 PM
#723
From all the hours I have spent trying to fix the bucking issues, I came to some conclusions... It's NOT link to ZDX TB, the bocking/jerking occurs on high vacuum engine (from real modifications) If I run my car with the stock 3.5TB I still have jerking issues. I could not fix this with the flashpro. Also my stock MAP sensors does not read below -23psi(inches mercury). The ecu shoots a small amount of gas while gas should be 100% closed on deceleration. I tried another MAP (hondata 4bar) and now it reads lower than stock and it's smoother once tuned with the flashpro... But I still get 20-25% jerking... better than before but still very annoying. Hondata finally found a solution to this problem from the 1.7.0 beta release:
[2006 Civic Si] Added parameter to enable full closure of throttle plate on deceleration&throttle opening vs flow table.[2012+ Civic Si, ILX] Added minimum throttle opening compensation table to allow for full closure of throttle plate on deceleration.
But it's not available for TL I'm confident that this will fix our problem and solve the rev hang at the same time...
[2006 Civic Si] Added parameter to enable full closure of throttle plate on deceleration&throttle opening vs flow table.[2012+ Civic Si, ILX] Added minimum throttle opening compensation table to allow for full closure of throttle plate on deceleration.
But it's not available for TL I'm confident that this will fix our problem and solve the rev hang at the same time...
So your running the same mod (with zdx? ) with the same issues with no fix yet?
So what now?
Help me understand, What car was the above solution for?
11-19-2013, 10:20 PM
#725
Burning Brakes
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When I first put the 3.7 on and had the bucking problems, I swapped back to the 3.5 setup and it drove flawlessly. Night and day difference. No bucking whatsoever. Just had my intake on at that point. Swapping back to the 3.7 tb and manifold brought the bucking back.
One other thing to think about is that the 3.7 TB itself isn't worth much power. The 3.7 manifold is where most of the gains are with this setup - so that said, tomorrow I'm gonna call P2R and inquire with them about potentially making a small adapter plate (they make these all the time for other cars) to be able to use the 3.5 TB with the 3.7 manifold.
One other thing to think about is that the 3.7 TB itself isn't worth much power. The 3.7 manifold is where most of the gains are with this setup - so that said, tomorrow I'm gonna call P2R and inquire with them about potentially making a small adapter plate (they make these all the time for other cars) to be able to use the 3.5 TB with the 3.7 manifold.
11-19-2013, 10:34 PM
#726
You don't think we could swap the black boxes on the sides of the TB's?
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
11-19-2013, 10:46 PM
#727
Burning Brakes
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You don't think we could swap the black boxes on the sides of the TB's?
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
i'm not using a 3.5" intake tube. I have my aem v2 on the 3.7 TB right now because a larger intake tube didn't make hardly any difference. I still have video of my car at King on the dyno with several setups of larger tubing intake. The only way we got any gains (about 3 whp) was by running a straight 4" pipe about 4 feet long directly into their dyno fans.
so for me, going back to a 3.5 TB makes sense. At most you're losing 1-2 whp, which I would happily give up for the sake of having a smooth ride again that won't shear my PCD's in half like it did back in April.
11-20-2013, 12:25 AM
#728
When I first put the 3.7 on and had the bucking problems, I swapped back to the 3.5 setup and it drove flawlessly. Night and day difference. No bucking whatsoever. Just had my intake on at that point. Swapping back to the 3.7 tb and manifold brought the bucking back.
One other thing to think about is that the 3.7 TB itself isn't worth much power. The 3.7 manifold is where most of the gains are with this setup - so that said, tomorrow I'm gonna call P2R and inquire with them about potentially making a small adapter plate (they make these all the time for other cars) to be able to use the 3.5 TB with the 3.7 manifold.
One other thing to think about is that the 3.7 TB itself isn't worth much power. The 3.7 manifold is where most of the gains are with this setup - so that said, tomorrow I'm gonna call P2R and inquire with them about potentially making a small adapter plate (they make these all the time for other cars) to be able to use the 3.5 TB with the 3.7 manifold.
There is a custom adapter plate already made. Talk to Andy and he can put you in touch with who makes it.
You don't think we could swap the black boxes on the sides of the TB's?
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
How come the bigger TB doesn't really make much power? Wouldn't it be bottle necking to have a 3.5 intake tube flow through a 2.75" opening? Isn't that bad?..... I don't know enough about this.
I'm interested in what you find out from P2R. If that works I would be on board.
Last edited by JJH; 11-20-2013 at 12:28 AM.
11-20-2013, 07:55 AM
#729
Burning Brakes
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yeah i can put it on GoPro for you tonight or tomorrow.
I just talked to Gerz and it sounds like that adapter plate was a 1 of 1 designed by a friend of his. That said, I just bought it from him a moment ago along with a stock 3.5 TB he had laying around
gotta love Andy. Dude's always got a way of pulling through, lol.
I just talked to Gerz and it sounds like that adapter plate was a 1 of 1 designed by a friend of his. That said, I just bought it from him a moment ago along with a stock 3.5 TB he had laying around
gotta love Andy. Dude's always got a way of pulling through, lol.
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jauman (11-20-2013)
11-20-2013, 02:17 PM
#731
Burning Brakes
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well, if it works for me, I'll have no problem taking the adapter plate over to King and having them record the specs for fabrication so that other people could start buying it.
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jauman (11-20-2013)
11-20-2013, 02:25 PM
#732
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yeah the plate was made by Keith at MPP....nice guy....
and Andy FTW !!!
and Andy FTW !!!
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jauman (11-20-2013)
11-20-2013, 02:31 PM
#734
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11-20-2013, 02:38 PM
#736
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MPP is Moore's Performance Parts (I think)....Keith's last name is Moore 
11-20-2013, 02:38 PM
#737
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Andy
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11-20-2013, 03:16 PM
#738
Three Wheelin'
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mooresperformanceparts@gmail.com is his email
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11-20-2013, 05:38 PM
#740
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cool edit brother
11-21-2013, 06:52 AM
#743
Senior Moderator
P2R makes adapters for the 3.7 mani. I made a few as well
11-21-2013, 07:35 AM
#745
Burning Brakes
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also, it looks like the P2R adapter for the 3.7 mani is only for CL-S/TL-S j32a2 throttle bodies. I don't see them having one yet for the j32a3/j35a8 throttle bodies.
I still would bet you could have them make one pretty easily for the j35
I still would bet you could have them make one pretty easily for the j35
11-21-2013, 08:03 AM
#746
Pro
I may be confused here but are Yall talking about an adapter for the ZDX TB to stock manifold? Cause I have that on my car right now. I can find out who makes it if it's on the adapter.
11-21-2013, 12:34 PM
#749
Senior Moderator
If im not mistaken, Your TB bolt pattern is the same as the J32a2. Others have put the 3rd gen manifold on the 2g and bolted their stock tbs up to them.
Last edited by fsttyms1; 11-21-2013 at 12:37 PM.
11-21-2013, 01:27 PM
#750
P384 is what your talking about?
http://www.powerrevracing.com/04-08-...ter-p/p384.htm
Like others have mentioned this is the reverse of what we are looking for. We want to bolt up our stock 3.2/3.5 TB to a 3.7 Manifold. ...so the P384 will not work.
Who ever mentioned it is right, P2R probably could make this since they already have made the reverse product and they already have the specs.
http://www.powerrevracing.com/04-08-...ter-p/p384.htm
Like others have mentioned this is the reverse of what we are looking for. We want to bolt up our stock 3.2/3.5 TB to a 3.7 Manifold. ...so the P384 will not work.
Who ever mentioned it is right, P2R probably could make this since they already have made the reverse product and they already have the specs.
11-21-2013, 02:08 PM
#751
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I have never been to a dyno and am just posting this out of theory....
the J series lovessss to breathe....
the final decider on how much air will enter the engine is the TB/Intake....you can have a manifold benchflowed to outflow anything out there....but if you dont have the TB/Intake to support it, its waste !!!
you want to make sure the intake velocity is high....so you can only port out soo much....you can have a 10" intake but if your manifold and runners are ported right, the velocity will be maintained well....
I would suggest looking into swapping out the electronic control or the MAF sensor but I would keep the bigger TB...
the J series lovessss to breathe....
the final decider on how much air will enter the engine is the TB/Intake....you can have a manifold benchflowed to outflow anything out there....but if you dont have the TB/Intake to support it, its waste !!!
you want to make sure the intake velocity is high....so you can only port out soo much....you can have a 10" intake but if your manifold and runners are ported right, the velocity will be maintained well....
I would suggest looking into swapping out the electronic control or the MAF sensor but I would keep the bigger TB...
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11-21-2013, 04:16 PM
#753
Burning Brakes
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I have never been to a dyno and am just posting this out of theory....
the J series lovessss to breathe....
the final decider on how much air will enter the engine is the TB/Intake....you can have a manifold benchflowed to outflow anything out there....but if you dont have the TB/Intake to support it, its waste !!!
you want to make sure the intake velocity is high....so you can only port out soo much....you can have a 10" intake but if your manifold and runners are ported right, the velocity will be maintained well....
I would suggest looking into swapping out the electronic control or the MAF sensor but I would keep the bigger TB...
the J series lovessss to breathe....
the final decider on how much air will enter the engine is the TB/Intake....you can have a manifold benchflowed to outflow anything out there....but if you dont have the TB/Intake to support it, its waste !!!
you want to make sure the intake velocity is high....so you can only port out soo much....you can have a 10" intake but if your manifold and runners are ported right, the velocity will be maintained well....
I would suggest looking into swapping out the electronic control or the MAF sensor but I would keep the bigger TB...
Sadly he's missing a couple socket cap bolts so I will need to find some, but hopefully I can source them over the weekend.
If all goes to plan, I'm going to king on Monday to get a current dyno, then quick swap in the adapter/3.5TB, re-dyno and see what happens.
If the difference in hp is negligible i.e. a few hp less (which is the likely outcome), I will leave it.
If the loss in hp from the 3.5 TB is >5 whp or something stupid like that, then I will tinker with swapping the electronic control myself.
Stay tuned!
11-21-2013, 04:21 PM
#754
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nice...
yeah am not contesting the gains, but every HP adds up
we want to squeeze out every hp possible, dont we
yeah am not contesting the gains, but every HP adds up
we want to squeeze out every hp possible, dont we
11-21-2013, 04:28 PM
#755
Burning Brakes
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My biggest concern is making it drive properly so i can sell it if I want to.
i stopped caring about the TL's power so much when I realized I was gonna slap a cobb tune on my 135 in a few months and go way faster for way less munneez
11-21-2013, 05:35 PM
#756
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3whp is 1% LOLbut am with ya....I stopped spending $$$ on the TL and am saving up for the
car that I want
really hoping the adapter with your stock TB works, without losing hp.
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thisaznboi88 (11-21-2013)
11-21-2013, 07:53 PM
#760
good news is i'll have the parts for all that. I sold my 3.5 TB long ago but Gerz is sending me one with the adapter plate that will arrive tomorrow.
Sadly he's missing a couple socket cap bolts so I will need to find some, but hopefully I can source them over the weekend.
If all goes to plan, I'm going to king on Monday to get a current dyno, then quick swap in the adapter/3.5TB, re-dyno and see what happens.
If the difference in hp is negligible i.e. a few hp less (which is the likely outcome), I will leave it.
If the loss in hp from the 3.5 TB is >5 whp or something stupid like that, then I will tinker with swapping the electronic control myself.
Stay tuned!
Sadly he's missing a couple socket cap bolts so I will need to find some, but hopefully I can source them over the weekend.
If all goes to plan, I'm going to king on Monday to get a current dyno, then quick swap in the adapter/3.5TB, re-dyno and see what happens.
If the difference in hp is negligible i.e. a few hp less (which is the likely outcome), I will leave it.
If the loss in hp from the 3.5 TB is >5 whp or something stupid like that, then I will tinker with swapping the electronic control myself.
Stay tuned!
