RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Ok. (THIS IS NOT A QUICK READ) So I have about 10k on my 2008 TL type S and have had a Zex wet nitrous system installed since day one. I have been had the bottle refilled about 15 times since then. I use it almost every time I take the car out of the garage. I have had the car for a little over a year now but I only drive it once in a while. Anyhow I have been reading about various aspects of engine tuning, guys running supercharges, Nitrous, and I have even seen one guy working on a blower for his 3.5L. I offer you this bit of advice and you can take it for what its worth. It is imperative to regularly give you engine a periodic checkup after bolting on mods that DRAMATICALLY increase HP. This is beyond a waste of time with just the usual bolt ons. There are some guys on here pushing so decent HP so its you guys I am talking to. All those who followed my install and progress with the Nitrous know I do not just throw a part like N20 on the car and call it a day. In hindsight I wish I had done what I did today a long time ago. Just for the simple fact of having a baseline to compare to. This will make more sense once you see the pictures. I decided I should take a look at my piston tops after reading about all the pinging issues(which btw will NOT do what you see in the pictures) and guys nuking motors etc. What I saw were signs of detonation. So..... the point of the article is, A few minutes spent periodically checking this particular aspect of your install may save you a lot of time and aggravation down the road. Now instead of replacing pistons/block I am going to up the fuel jetting and try and cool down these cylinder temps a little. Just some food for thought. Here are the two pics I took.

You can see in this pic how sparkly clean the piston top is. Thats fine. I am satisfied with that. You can also see where the last pull on the nitrous didnt quite burn off all the carbon around the edge of the piston. What I saw in this view that I didnt like was the edge of the piston near where it lays next the cylinder wall. So I go in for a closer look.....

Now this is disgusting. Looks like a rat was nibbling on my piston lol. So there you have it. EVENTUALLY this would have spelled out catastrophic failure. So I have already went two clicks up on the fuel jet and I will recheck in another 5k. Another important point is I tuned the jetting to the richer side of stoich on n20. While it was a good starting point dont be fooled. Follow up. I can swap a short block out of a UA6/7 in 9 hours. Doesnt mean I want too.......

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Wow, that sucks! Good thing you caught it before it shit the bed...

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Its not as bad as it looks. I am basically looking at it from about 2mm away. But it is there and needed to be adressed. Kinda like nipping in the bud.

Blazing GT

great read. I am considering dramatic horsepower but not sure what setup to use. NOS would work better than the supercharger.....just a small boost.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Its all about ease, cost, etc. Nos is def a better bang for the buck. On the downside is pressure drops as you use it. A blower is always on demand and ready. A n20 system cost 1000. A supercharger kit is gonna be around 5 grand. The debate can go on all day. My N20 setup is tuned to make more power than a supercharger even though no one has finished a blower on a type s yet.

Blazing GT

would it have the same fitment on the RL? Might consider that. Also how much are to refill the bottles.

very little knowledge on these things.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Just filled it today for 30 bucks. Average is 4-5 bucks a pound but you dont wanna run the bottle low. Performance suffers. Bottle holds 10 pounds. I usually add about 4 pounds each fill but my opener popped off (totall POS from Zex) and the bottle was open for two weeks while the car sat and I dont care who you are. N20 leaks if you leave the system charged.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

you are going to make people curious on n2o kits.. but you would never catch me running more than a 50shot on anything...

you should swap out the jets for 125shot and then call me to watch you do the motorswap... so I can get in your way again

CJ0920

What rpm do you usually spray at? Do you run a bottle warmer at all? Do you still need a license to get it filled in jerzy?

I hate cars

Was there knock retard on the scanner during all of this? Any timing retard, colder plugs, aftermarket fuel pump, or higher octane?

Looks like you caught it in time. I'm curious as to how much performance, if any you are going to lose with more fuel.

I've got a lot more to say but our local bartender is fighting in the UFC tonight so got to watch that.

milk man

thanks for the thread racingheart03 good read....

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Yes but I have one so its cool.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

I only monitored the knock when I did the initial tune to 12:1. I wouldnt have let if fly if there were was anything out of ordinary but I dont remember what the values were. I havent made a pull since I upped to fuel jetting to see what the a/f is at. This all went down yesterday BTW. I will do some more info gathering and let you know my findings. I dont think I will lose much power adding a little more fuel. I went from the smallest fuel jet to the third smallest fuel jet MADE by anyone (.012 up to .014). The smallest jets that come with the system are WAY to big. I will have to wait unitl the snow clears (again) to do some more testing.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

I have the system activate at full throttle. I may invest in a rpm switch and a lean cut off just in case. These were the only two things I didnt add that I wanted to. I dont think the car was running "text book" lean but I am gonna add for fuel to be on the safe side. Its like IHATE mentioned in another thread, once the detonation starts the ECU needs to pull alot more timing to STOP the detonation then it does to prevent it. So the key here is to prevent it fully. I have driven this car hard all things considered. I have all out full throttle120mph highway pulls, dyno runs, street fun, tuning all on the nitrous. I just wish I could have pinpointed where this detonation was occuring the most so I could have addressed it and verified the correction but live n learn. Thats the point of the thread. Learn from my mistake, and live.

I hate cars

How large of a shot are you running? I have a feeling that for 100hp and above, a higher octane is going to be needed regardless of tuning. I've got an old NOS nitrous system jetted to 100hp that I used to spool my turbo back in the old days. I may install that on the TL today since I have nothing else to do. I'm going to start it out very rich and see if I get any knock retard and go from there.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Its hard to say what size shot it is. I picked up about 50WHP on the bottle so I am guessing maybe 80hp. You have a wet system right?

I hate cars

Yes, but it's the old fogger system from 10 years ago. I'm debating if it's safe enough for the TL. On the plus side I have a fuel pressure guage that will temporarily mount on the hood so I can watch pressure on the spray. Has anyone tested the limits of the stock TL fuel pump?

I was also wondering, when you tuned the car did you take it into the higher gears while watching knock retard. It's much more likely to detonate in the higher gears.

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

interesting.....

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Yes I tuned it to a highway pull. That is prime time for the longest burn to heat the cylinder up the most. (I am guessing that is where most of what you see in the pics happened) I am gonna make some more pulls next week when the snow melts and see what kind of knock I am picking up. I know that MSD makes a knock warning system which is kinda neat. I swear I remember making my own back in my old turbo days with an LED somehow. I just cant remember how I did it. Ill have to research it a little. The MSD kit is like 225. I definitley dont think I am running outta fuel. I never saw anything over 12.5 on the A/F but that may be too hot for our cars.
Is the fogger system a wet system? I never used NOS kits and I think thats what you are referring to.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

And while I am thinking of it, has anyone ever dropped heat ranges on our plugs? I wonder if it can even be done. Not sure if anyone makes them.

I hate cars

I did a little over a year ago due to the pinging issues. I couldn't find anything colder in irridiums but nearly every manufacturer had them up to 3 heat ranges colder in platinum. Seemed to help a little but didn't cure it.

It should be interesting to see if yours shows knock when you take it out again since we know it has knocked before.

For what it's worth, it seems like many of the forced induction/nitrous guys shoot for ~12.5 AF for drag racing and 11.5 for road racing where you're under full throttle much longer.

Having a car with a wideband 02, I can tell you for sure that it goes leaner on the street vs the dyno. So if you tune on the dyno, shoot for at least half a point rich from where you want to be.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

I am in the habit of glancing at that thing once every time I have the bottle flowing. Its become second nature. I tuned the car on the street. I am thinking I will be closer to 11.5 with the new jets.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Sorry to hijack but I can't seem to get an answer in my thread. Have you ever had any backfires since you installed your precat deletes? My car backfired 3 times already at the top of 1st just before it shifted into 2nd.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Auto or manual? And what is a stage 3 exhaust mod?

ussi

iTrader: (1)

I haven't yet, but plan too. I'm going to get a smaller pulley for my S/C made soon and we'll see if I have fuel delivery issues.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

It's an auto. Stage 3 exhaust mod is removing stock resonator and mid-muffler and putting a Dynomax resonator in. I got rid of the rasp today by having my muffler shop add another larger resonator in addition to the Dynomax. It sounds mean now.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

What type of mufflers? Wonder if you have a bottleneck issue that might be causing your backfires.

I hate cars

Is this a bad backfire or just a little pop? Running catless, pretty much any car will pop a little, especially during decel. If it's doing it under power, that's a different story.

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

either bottlenecking city or just being catless, I pop all the time....

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Thats my feeling too. I wouldnt sweat it.

Majofo

Hey RacingHart.. can you recommend a decent fiber optic scope? or will any lit scope suffice? I'd like to check out my piston heads out of pure curiosity since I bought it used. If I see the same pictures as the Mars Landrover.. I may pass out.

I hate cars

It's always a good idea to check out the cylinder via scope when you can. Keep in mind the piston doens't have to look cratered when there's detonation. I've broken forged pistons before at the top ring land and there were no craters.

Majofo

that's good to know.. scary but good.. so a full removal of the piston & rod is necessary for a thorough inspection?

I hate cars

I guess my only point was, the scope can prove detonation was present but it can't prove that is was not presesnt.

The rod bearings take a pounding with detonation too. I've pulled my engines apart and the one cylinder that had a bad injector that was detonating destroyed the rod bearing while the rest were ok. It's just so much cylinder pressure that it squeezes the oil out of the bearing and there's metal to metal contact.

Not to scare you, the light pinging you may get in a stock TL won't take it's toll for a very long time.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but start with a leak down/ compression test if you're concerned.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

I have the Snap On version. Cost about 500 bucks. Thats the model you see in the pics. Has a video out to run to an external monitor or a video cam. Kinda nice.

Majofo

That's a lot of change. Sounds like a definite for anyone running boost.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but I am in the biz and 500 is a drop in the hat when it comes to tool inventory lol. My tool box cost over 12 grand.... and no tools were included!!

Majofo

I saw a post on CL.. a tech was selling all his tools.. he said he paid over $12k and wanted to sell them all as a set.. best offer.. his excuse was he was going to find a new trade. Do you guys work in the shop as independent contractors or are you guys W-2?.. just wondering.. b/c as contractors you're required to use your own tools but as employees the shop is supposed to supply you the tools.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Ha. I wish I had my tools bought for by my employer lol. Not a chance. Only good thing is I have everything I need to pick up and leave and continue doing what I do best elsewhere. Bad part is I need a flatbed to do it. 12k would get you a basic set of Snap On tools. I have over 40k invested in tools. But again I am an Acura master certified tech. An entry level tech would have between a 5 and 15k set up. We are not independent employed contractors. We get a employee paycheck with all the standard deductions just like the next guy.