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I’ve been looking at the 3.7 swap I’m/tb threads and can’t seem to find an answer. My local junkyard has and mdx with the 3.7 and I was wondering if that would work on my 2004 tl (I know I need the top plate)? I see most people use the tl sh awd manifold and zdx throttle body is there a difference from the mdx?
Yes the 3.7 mdx intake mani will work on the 04 TL. Thats what im running. HOWEVER the mdx intake mani IS different then the zdx and shawd mani in a sense that those two use 80mm TBs and the mdx uses the same size TB as the 3.2 and 3.5....from what i understand the 3.7 mdx intake mani is a magnesium replica of the j35a8 intake mani. Still a good upgrade over stock but the zdx or shawd are def the best option but expensive
Yes the 3.7 mdx intake mani will work on the 04 TL. Thats what im running. HOWEVER the mdx intake mani IS different then the zdx and shawd mani in a sense that those two use 80mm TBs and the mdx uses the same size TB as the 3.2 and 3.5....from what i understand the 3.7 mdx intake mani is a magnesium replica of the j35a8 intake mani. Still a good upgrade over stock but the zdx or shawd are def the best option but expensive
is this swap worth while and does it require a tune after?
The ZDX throttlebody can be bored and tapped larger from what I remember but 80mm is great.
Does anyone know if the 4G TL 3.5 mani and 3.7 mani are identical like dead on? And what about the Holly efi plenum set up from P2R? Has anyone tried that out yet?
I tried getting ahold of Paul the dual throttlebody set up guy (NVA-AV6) but he is banned here and has not been on v6p for 5 months. His custom intakes are sweet.
The ZDX throttlebody can be bored and tapped larger from what I remember but 80mm is great.
Does anyone know if the 4G TL 3.5 mani and 3.7 mani are identical like dead on? And what about the Holly efi plenum set up from P2R? Has anyone tried that out yet?
I tried getting ahold of Paul the dual throttlebody set up guy (NVA-AV6) but he is banned here and has not been on v6p for 5 months. His custom intakes are sweet.
But I like the setup- the ECU functions normally, sending the drive-by-wire acceleration signal to the single throttle body wiring connection - but two bodies open as one.
Fuck Photobucket. I found his albums but the contents aren't viewable. Username csmalser.
I read the whole thread, and by "read" I mean "skimmed past a bunch of armchair engineers and dumb kids talking out of their asses and straying off topic". Not much solid info and the thread ends abruptly- perhaps he got too busy doing head work and nobody stepped up the fat cash? Glorious pics though, I screen-capped them.
I am intrigued by how DBW (drive by wire, throttle actuated by servo instead of cable) is actually an advantage because cables are the worst part about multi-throttle systems. I wonder if a single big Acura DBW TB servo has the strength to turn 6 small butterflies for ITBs.
Fuck Photobucket. I found his albums but the contents aren't viewable. Username csmalser.
I read the whole thread, and by "read" I mean "skimmed past a bunch of armchair engineers and dumb kids talking out of their asses and straying off topic". Not much solid info and the thread ends abruptly- perhaps he got too busy doing head work and nobody stepped up the fat cash? Glorious pics though, I screen-capped them.
I am intrigued by how DBW (drive by wire, throttle actuated by servo instead of cable) is actually an advantage because cables are the worst part about multi-throttle systems. I wonder if a single big Acura DBW TB servo has the strength to turn 6 small butterflies for ITBs.
He made quite a few of them, they were used, and had an idle/low rpm surge issue from the DOUBLING of air introduced to the engine when the ECU needed a bit more for things like A/C and P/S surges, or temp regulation. These surge issues lead to them being removed in favor of PnP 3.7 IM and ZDX Maxbored TBs as the IM allowed for enough flow, and the drivability issues outweighed top end performance gains.
They came and went, Sonnick may still have one, but nobody is known to still be using them as the idle surge/RPM hang was never fixed.
He made quite a few of them, they were used, and had an idle/low rpm surge issue from the DOUBLING of air introduced to the engine when the ECU needed a bit more for things like A/C and P/S surges, or temp regulation. These surge issues lead to them being removed in favor of PnP 3.7 IM and ZDX Maxbored TBs as the IM allowed for enough flow, and the drivability issues outweighed top end performance gains.
They came and went, Sonnick may still have one, but nobody is known to still be using them as the idle surge/RPM hang was never fixed.
He made quite a few of them, they were used, and had an idle/low rpm surge issue from the DOUBLING of air introduced to the engine when the ECU needed a bit more for things like A/C and P/S surges, or temp regulation. These surge issues lead to them being removed in favor of PnP 3.7 IM and ZDX Maxbored TBs as the IM allowed for enough flow, and the drivability issues outweighed top end performance gains.
They came and went, Sonnick may still have one, but nobody is known to still be using them as the idle surge/RPM hang was never fixed.
Not everybody had the surge issues. I think there are still people using them. Vehicles like the 4g tl has electric p/s and a/c wouldn't be a problem is needed to bypass. However I personally have been trying to research the p2r holly efi intake. I just can't seem to find out if it can put down more power than the 3.7l intake.
Not everybody had the surge issues. I think there are still people using them. Vehicles like the 4g tl has electric p/s and a/c wouldn't be a problem is needed to bypass. However I personally have been trying to research the p2r holly efi intake. I just can't seem to find out if it can put down more power than the 3.7l intake.
It seems like the surging could be tuned out?
No data, but I would bet the 3.7 intake would be much better for a NA street car based on the wide dual-plenum design for flexibility. That P2R looks more like a forced-induction racecar design, all out flow at full throttle.
Some misleading info in this thread. Here is the detailed info the OP was looking for:
07-09 MDX J37 has the same size TB as the J35A8/J32A3.
10-13 MDX J37 has the larger TB, same size as the ZDX, TL SH-AWD and 09-12 RL.
Regarding the idle surges, this can happen even with a bored out ZDX TB. There is a table
in the calibration that needs to be tuned to match the increased air flow of the larger TB.
It's called Throttle Flow. Here is the brief, fairly useless description on Hondata's website: https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpr...parameters.htm
This table is used by the ECU program to facilitate tip-in response.
The top row is throttle angle, in degrees, and the bottom row is flow rate, in liters per minute.
The above image is just a reference from the Hondata website. The J-series table has different values.
Last edited by Euro-R_Spec_TSX; 05-18-2020 at 12:58 PM.
Some misleading info in this thread. Here is the detailed info the OP was looking for:
07-09 MDX J37 has the same size TB as the J35A8/J32A3.
10-13 MDX J37 has the larger TB, same size as the ZDX, TL SH-AWD and 09-12 RL.
Regarding the idle surges, this can happen even with a bored out ZDX TB. There is a table
in the calibration that needs to be tuned to match the increased air flow of the larger TB.
It's called Throttle Flow. Here is the brief, fairly useless description on Hondata's website: https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpr...parameters.htm
This table is used by the ECU program to facilitate tip-in response.
The top row is throttle angle, in degrees, and the bottom row is flow rate, in liters per minute.
The above image is just a reference from the Hondata website. The J-series table has different values.
Not everybody had the surge issues. I think there are still people using them. Vehicles like the 4g tl has electric p/s and a/c wouldn't be a problem is needed to bypass. However I personally have been trying to research the p2r holly efi intake. I just can't seem to find out if it can put down more power than the 3.7l intake.
I don't know of any, however I can definitely be wrong. The P2R was tested against many intakes, and surprisingly the 3.7L manifold (unported) as well as the 3.2L CL manifold (DBC) manifold outperformed the Holley, albeit slightly. The 3.7 had more torque but less top end (maybe fixed once ported, porting adds a good 1mm to the j37 mani runner), the 3.2 ported had more top end and nearly as much torque as j37, and Holley had the same torque as a stock j32a2 (CL) manifold, but as much top end as the j37 manifold.
Originally Posted by thisaznboi88
J Series Intake Manifold Shoot Out Results!!!
Ok, so the numbers are in for the Intake Manifold Shootout. Current engine setup
J35A4 Block
J32A2 Heads
P2R DNJ High Compression Pistons
All pulls were done on a stock Automatic Acura TL ecu. We did 3 pulls with each intake manifold and displayed the best pull for each one. If we noticed the power kept going up between pulls, we did additional pulls until the power stopped going up. So each manifold had a fair shot to get its best dyno pull.
YELLOW Holley
BLUE J32A2 Stock
PINK J32A2 SBS P2R Spec Ported
GREEN J37
RED J32A2 SBS P2R Spec Ported with P2R Plenum Spacer
Here are a few clear-cut things.
1. The stock J32A2 intake manifold made the least amount of HP at 294hp.
2. The J37 made the most low end to mid-range power but didn’t as much peak power as the Ported J32A2 or the Holley intake manifold.
3. The SBS Performance ported J32A2 manifold with the P2R Plenum Spacer made the most HP of all the different intake manifolds.
4. The Holley made the least TQ but beat out all of the stock manifolds for HP up top.
After we finished doing all the manifold test. I went back to the J32A2 SBS P2R Spec Ported with P2R Plenum Spacer manifold. Rotated my intake tube towards the fan, and put in some VP MS109 fuel to mix with the 93 octane that was in the car. And we dynode 311 HP & 284 TQ to cap off the day.
Originally Posted by Euro-R_Spec_TSX
Some misleading info in this thread. Here is the detailed info the OP was looking for:
07-09 MDX J37 has the same size TB as the J35A8/J32A3.
10-13 MDX J37 has the larger TB, same size as the ZDX, TL SH-AWD and 09-12 RL.
Regarding the idle surges, this can happen even with a bored out ZDX TB. There is a table
in the calibration that needs to be tuned to match the increased air flow of the larger TB.
It's called Throttle Flow. Here is the brief, fairly useless description on Hondata's website: https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpr...parameters.htm
This table is used by the ECU program to facilitate tip-in response.
The top row is throttle angle, in degrees, and the bottom row is flow rate, in liters per minute.
The above image is just a reference from the Hondata website. The J-series table has different values.
I have been wondering for years why this hasn't been tapped in to yet. Even in the FIC6 there's a conditional throttle "acceleration" parameter that can be modified to give gradual opening down low or more aggressive. Thank you for this data, the surges with the ZDX throttle body are what have kept me on a maxbore 3.2L TB on a 3.5L mag ported manifold. This gives me more confidence pursuing even larger throttle body adaptations for our engine, especially for those using positive displacement superchargers.
Some misleading info in this thread. Here is the detailed info the OP was looking for:
07-09 MDX J37 has the same size TB as the J35A8/J32A3.
10-13 MDX J37 has the larger TB, same size as the ZDX, TL SH-AWD and 09-12 RL.
Regarding the idle surges, this can happen even with a bored out ZDX TB. There is a table
in the calibration that needs to be tuned to match the increased air flow of the larger TB.
It's called Throttle Flow. Here is the brief, fairly useless description on Hondata's website: https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpr...parameters.htm
This table is used by the ECU program to facilitate tip-in response.
The top row is throttle angle, in degrees, and the bottom row is flow rate, in liters per minute.
The above image is just a reference from the Hondata website. The J-series table has different values.
Thanks for all the good info in this thread. Looks like the 10-13 manifold is a little harder to find used so if you know which would be better the older mdx manifold or a tl type s manifold? Ported or unported
Still looking for a reasonably price intake manifold but does a stone have recommendations of a company to send it it or how to port it diy? I know maxbore does the throttle bodies for a fair price so will probably send them that but can't really find anyone that has a website for intake manifold besides haflerland performance.
Still looking for a reasonably price intake manifold but does a stone have recommendations of a company to send it it or how to port it diy? I know maxbore does the throttle bodies for a fair price so will probably send them that but can't really find anyone that has a website for intake manifold besides haflerland performance.
Neversleep performance on instagram does some good work.
gerzand does the pnp work if you send it. look up gerzy bear
yeah I've seen his work looks good epsiclsly like his front bumpers and rotrex kits. I picked up a tl type s manifold at my junkyard for cheap and found out not worth porting unless you open it up and do the whole thing which is around 3-400 so only doing some runners for now until I swap to the sh awd 3.7 stuff whenever I find it for a good price
I don't know of any, however I can definitely be wrong. The P2R was tested against many intakes, and surprisingly the 3.7L manifold (unported) as well as the 3.2L CL manifold (DBC) manifold outperformed the Holley, albeit slightly. The 3.7 had more torque but less top end (maybe fixed once ported, porting adds a good 1mm to the j37 mani runner), the 3.2 ported had more top end and nearly as much torque as j37, and Holley had the same torque as a stock j32a2 (CL) manifold, but as much top end as the j37 manifold.
I have been wondering for years why this hasn't been tapped in to yet. Even in the FIC6 there's a conditional throttle "acceleration" parameter that can be modified to give gradual opening down low or more aggressive. Thank you for this data, the surges with the ZDX throttle body are what have kept me on a maxbore 3.2L TB on a 3.5L mag ported manifold. This gives me more confidence pursuing even larger throttle body adaptations for our engine, especially for those using positive displacement superchargers.
Do you think the 3.7 ported, with an 80mm to and the ported runners intake spacer and tb spacer would of put out more power? Also why didn't you just drop a 3.7 in the tl are they not the same bolt pattern?
yeah I've seen his work looks good epsiclsly like his front bumpers and rotrex kits. I picked up a tl type s manifold at my junkyard for cheap and found out not worth porting unless you open it up and do the whole thing which is around 3-400 so only doing some runners for now until I swap to the sh awd 3.7 stuff whenever I find it for a good price
Gotta say that's relative. I spent near $1000 getting porting tools, compressors, die grinders, burrs, abrasives, mandrels, discs, and various odds and ends to be able to PnP to within reach of CnC ported runners and work on the 3.7/5L magnesium manifolds and throttle bodies. If you're half way into machining and fabrication, yeah it's not a far reach. But from a 0 point of I bolt and unbolt things on my car, it's a jump for tools that don't neccesarily get used for much else.
Originally Posted by LongLurkerTL12
Do you think the 3.7 ported, with an 80mm to and the ported runners intake spacer and tb spacer would of put out more power? Also why didn't you just drop a 3.7 in the tl are they not the same bolt pattern?
Honestly, I think it would be close. I would rather put an 80mm TB on the J32A2 manifold and port the life out of it with a 1" spacer, than run it on a ported J37. The reason the J37 made more torque is at that point it has slightly smaller port holes, and a slightly shorter length port run. These two focus on high RPM torque, but not HP. A spacer would need to be near 2" tall on the J37 to get the right port height, and the ports to keep up with what the J32A2 can flow at maximum port would be too large for the already very thin walled magnesium to handle.
Modifying a J32A2 manifold with a SHAWD 3.7 size bored ported TB, with either longer horns inside the manifold or a 1" spacer, would give the most overall power IMO. Not just an adapter though, as the factory TB inlet on the J32A2 I don't think has a neck of 80mm even. It would need the head chopped off, and to be replaced with a new piece of metal.
If Saving4aTL wants to cut me a plate for the 80mm I'll weld it to the A2 mani I have kicking around and we can find out!
Hey guys, would 2013 MDX TB yield any noticeable gains on a 07tls? p2r claims 7hp on j30, and more so on j35... way to keep it vague.
Secondly, with just the tb upgrade on tls mani should I expect driveability issues with tip in and idle surge?
current setup is mostly stock: stage 1 clutch, jpipe and CAI. not looking for full j37 im swap or tuning yet, this one is a daily. have a spare j35a8 manifold was considering porting, but its pricey.
since no one seems to have an opinion, I'll at least share the pics and measurements
2013 mdx tb
79mm in
69mm out
vs
j35a8 67mm in
65mm out
j35a8 im inlet
68mm
mdx tb on tls manifold, worth it? or only with the j37 manifold?
i know adapter is needed
These reads helped me decide to save money and skip the j37 intake manifold on my tls 6mt. We already have a magnesium intake manifold, just need to port match to the j37 throttle body.
I currently have 4” intake, zdx tb, rv6 pcd’s, endless rpm v2 j pipe & test pipe, altp v2 quads
Back to the fix.. so basically you have to swap the motor and tps from your j35 tb to the zdx tb. But since they’re different generations, the cover from the tls tb is different than the zdx tb. So I ordered a very used j35 09-14 tl (same as 08-12 accord v6) throttle body from ebay user “oemusedautoparts-1” for $30. Even tho the outside of the tb looked like shit, I figured the motor and inside of the tps would be good, which they were. I swapped the motor and tps from the 09-14 tl tb to the zdx tb and installed the zdx tb to my stock intake manifold with the p2r adapter and oem gaskets.
Upon start up, idle was normal and there was no idle hunting. But just to be sure, since i have a hds him ($90 from aliexpress) i did a pcm reset and did the throttle learn procedure. Been fine ever since, behaves just like stock
These reads helped me decide to save money and skip the j37 intake manifold on my tls 6mt. We already have a magnesium intake manifold, just need to port match to the j37 throttle body.
I currently have 4” intake, zdx tb, rv6 pcd’s, endless rpm v2 j pipe & test pipe, altp v2 quads
Back to the fix.. so basically you have to swap the motor and tps from your j35 tb to the zdx tb. But since they’re different generations, the cover from the tls tb is different than the zdx tb. So I ordered a very used j35 09-14 tl (same as 08-12 accord v6) throttle body from ebay user “oemusedautoparts-1” for $30. Even tho the outside of the tb looked like shit, I figured the motor and inside of the tps would be good, which they were. I swapped the motor and tps from the 09-14 tl tb to the zdx tb and installed the zdx tb to my stock intake manifold with the p2r adapter and oem gaskets.
Upon start up, idle was normal and there was no idle hunting. But just to be sure, since i have a hds him ($90 from aliexpress) i did a pcm reset and did the throttle learn procedure. Been fine ever since, behaves just like stock
Been busy with a j swap on another car, so I never did get around to ordering the zdx tb adapter.
However, I did just read the AZ thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...b-swap-930961/
The TPS, I can understand changing. But, I don't understand why the motor needs to be swapped if the gears are identical? Maybe I'll give the tps swap and relearn a chance first. Thanks again.
Some misleading info in this thread. Here is the detailed info the OP was looking for:
07-09 MDX J37 has the same size TB as the J35A8/J32A3.
10-13 MDX J37 has the larger TB, same size as the ZDX, TL SH-AWD and 09-12 RL.
Regarding the idle surges, this can happen even with a bored out ZDX TB. There is a table
in the calibration that needs to be tuned to match the increased air flow of the larger TB.
It's called Throttle Flow. Here is the brief, fairly useless description on Hondata's website: https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpr...parameters.htm
This table is used by the ECU program to facilitate tip-in response.
The top row is throttle angle, in degrees, and the bottom row is flow rate, in liters per minute.
The above image is just a reference from the Hondata website. The J-series table has different values.
Aside from issues related to a loose hose or not bolting something down, idle issues may be attributed to swapping the MAP sensor from the stock throttle over to the larger throttle bodies. Not sure this applies in this specific situation, but it feels like it does at the same time.
03-25-2020, 07:59 PM
