ayethetiense

Thats what i said. And that is really what needs to be done.


Mod Edit:
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kennyc

replacing the front seats is another idea. OEM seats are heavy so get some with CF shell to reduce weight.

and since you took out the floor mats for the sake of weight reduction. You might as well go one step further and remove the passenger seat, the back seat and the rear deck...

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

actually the felt on the underside of the hood also has a safety function... if your engine catches on fire, it will melt that felt and there are fibers in there that will help extinguish the fire... still a rare occurence but possible...

but aside from that... great work inaccurate... a different approach to making the TL just a little faster...

typeR

the front and rear bumper cross members are probablly not neeeded to support the bumper covers and weigh about 20 lbs each,also there should be two vibration dampeners near the rear motor mount which weigh about 10lbs also light weight wheels like the SSR competition 17/8 weigh about 15 lbs and could provide performance gains three times there static due to rotaional mass

Inaccurate

Dude, this is great. I loved it !!!! Really . Thanks for adding a motto to our misguided thread . But, seriously, I did enjoy this.. it made me laugh. Thanks

Inaccurate

Touge,

I found the subframe damper for the TL in the schematic !!!! I can't wait for the weekend to hunt for it in real life... with wrench in hand.

THANKS bigtime for the suggestion. I probably would had never known it was there without your help.

Does this look similiar to the RL ? If I have the car on jackstands, can I reach the fastners (unobsructed) to remove the damper from underneath the car ?

Touge

Inaccurate I haven't removed mine yet because it's been a bit cold here, but on the RL the dampener is located in the front according to the service manual even though the parts diagram shows it to be in the rear. Wonder if it's the case with the TL . I think the manual says the bolt is a 10mm on the RL, TL should be the same on that.

I was also tempted to remove the center rear seatbelt, since I never really have 3 people in the back, mostly 2 if any. I did that on my last car and it saved me I think 3 lb.

Oh also I noticed there are no dampeners on the RL's bumper beams, I think because they are made out of aluminum. Wonder if they'd fit the TL, could save you guys some more weight.

Inaccurate

You know, this question has stuck in my mind. So, I wondered myself. What was my goal here ? Damn good question I thought. I just did not know the answer at the time that "trancemission" asked me this question. But, I know the answer now.

At first, there was the obvious answer of wanting to return something to the commutunity here in Performance Land. Like most here, I have gained from others here. So, whenever possible, I try to offer something in return.

But, the deeper answer came tonight when I recieved a personal message (PM) from a fellow member here. He commented that he had removed the clutter (personal items) from his car, and he is wanting to remove the front damper.

And, there is your answer "trancemission". My goal here is to remind folks that removing excessive weight (for each person to decide what "excessive weight" means) can offer performance improvements. We concentrate so much on adding HP while overlooking the obvious.

Also "trancemission", from the PM that I recieved, I found your Cliff Note version for ya. Clean the clutter and junk out of your car, and go slightly quicker.

pohljm

^^^^^^^^ Well said!

johnny--2k

Haha....the PM he is reffering to is from me. I decided it was time to do some cleanout of my TL. Honestly, I probably got rid of a lot of junk. To give you an idea of what I cleaned out...

Spare/Tools (pretty damn heavy. 6MT's get a 17" Spare, not light at all....)
Trunk Dampner
My personal tool kit (small, but hefty)
Jumper Cables
Tripod
Camera/Lens/Carrying Bag (Rebel XT, 28-210 Lens, Charger, Cables, etc...)
Multiple other tools (screw drivers, etc...)
Cleaning Supplies (Wax, QD, Wheel Cleaner, Mits, about 15 MF Towels, Mag Polish, Leather Cleaner, Bucket, Sponge) ( I do a lot of detailing at places other than my house, so I usually carry that crap with me all the time, plus self wash bays in the WI winters)
Owners Manual
Papers, Reciepts, etc...
Empty Jewel Cases
Second CD Book with about 100 CD's that I never listen to


Thats just off the top of my head. There was other misc crap like a big cup full of change that I cashed in.....quarters/nickles/dimes get heavy pretty quickly.

Honestly, though the difference was minimal, it was noticeable. One thing that really stood out was the fact that I can feel the small bumps in the road now. Much more noticeable.

I have yet to do the front bumper dampner, but it is on the list for the weekend. Dont think I will do much more than that other than mods currently on the list such as UR Crank Pulley, ProCats (i would assume lighter than stock) Exhaust, and a few other things. Now I am even thinking of selling my 19's for a set of 18" Gram Lights!

HQTL6SPD

i removed the boat anchor thingy, and the insulation from the hood. slightly better on turn ins and outs, the hood feels soo freaking light now its crazy!

Inaccurate

Thanks !!!!! This is all that I was wanting. For people to just try it for themselves. To not underestimate those few pounds...they can make a slight difference.


Thanks HQTL6SPD and johnny--2k for giving it a try instead of totally dismissing it as nonsense as the other posters. And, thanks for backing me up that there was a SLIGHT difference that could be felt . That was my message in my original post that most readers just poo poo'ed over . Oh well, their loss (or the lack there of).

Inaccurate

I took these pics for another thread, but the pics would be helpful here too.

It's true that Fix-A-Flat would probably kill the TPMS sensor. However, here is the solution that I use.

Air pump resting in it's place in my '06 TL.


Here, you can see the model. It weight just 2.0 pounds. Common brand name, easy to purchase. I got mine at Walmart.


Here is a close-up of the UPC number (part number).


Here is the solution in my '02 TL.


The '02 TL pump is bigger than the pump in my '06. I did not weigh this pump, but I suppose it is approx 3 or 3 1/2 pounds.


Just make sure that you do NOT buy a CORDLESS pump. The cordless contains a heavy battery, hence it's name "cordless".

Whatever you get, BE SURE TO TEST IT. Go somewhere that has compressed air to inflate your tire (at home if you have a compressor). Now, let most of the air out of one of the tires. Now, use the new pump to see if it can inflate the tire. My small pump does not have the strenght to inflate to beyond 26 psi. But, the 26 psi is enough to get me home.

AnothaTL

WOW!!!! I bet that car is running in the low to mid tens. LOLZ Have fun with it.

johnny--2k

Inaccurate.....

I looked under my car where you were telling me and I did not see anything at all resembling a boat anchor.....is it possible that 6MT's dont have this? I'm confused.....

johnny--2k

OK,.....just called the dealership, 6MT Sports do not have the front bumer vibration dampner...only on automatics.

pohljm

Oh no! the secret is out...........the 5AT is actually faster than the 6MT and they had to add boat anchors to the AT to make it slower!

Inaccurate

Now, these are some good ones!!!

HQTL6SPD

Heres an idea: remove innards of the glovebox and replace with a net anchored by screws, should save a few lbs...

ThrotTLup

Inaccurate: You could probably remove a lot of weight be removing the entire radio/navi and the other speakers. Replace the navi with a paper map, fill the radio hole with a nice photo of the components you have trashed, and sing whatever songs you'd like to hear! LOL.

Kudo's for your diligence. I'm going the other way and adding weight to my ride....

Inaccurate

I GOT ANOTHER 39 POUNDS OFF OF THE CAR TODAY !!!!!

:gheywave:

I removed the Front Bumper (17 pounds), Rear Bumper (16 pounds), Engine Cradle Damper (3 - 1/2 pounds), and Glovebox Plate (2 - 1/2 pounds). For a total of 39 pounds.

And, as I always said... A normal person looking at the car would never know that anything was missing.

Although the following pics will appear frightful to the timid, the car looks 100% normal once reassemblied

Get your popcorn, here is the picture show.

With Front Facial removed, we see the front bumper.


Bumper GONE !!!!


Side view


The Outside Temp Probe was mounted to the bumper. So, I needed to find a new home for the probe. I drill a hole to mount it into the fresh air opening. This should provide more accurate temp readings that the oem position for the probe.


With the Front Facial remounted, you can see the new location for the Temp Probe.


Next, the rear bumper gets remove. Here is the BEFORE pic.


Here is the AFTER pic.


The rear bumper in all of it's glory.






Next, is the engine cradle damper. This was a real PITA to remove. The two bolts were very difficult to access.


This illustrates where the engine cradle damper is located.


Here is the glovebox plate. I always wondered why the glovebox door felt so heavy. Now I know. But, it ain't heavy any longer !!!!! This is a good example of how the Acura engineers got a bit disrespectful in regards to weight. This plate is THICK GAUGE metal plate.


Here you can see the glovebox plate as it is mounted the the glovebox door.


Now, let me repeat for those TIMID folks... My car appears no different than your car. These items removed can not be seen by the normal person.

johnny--2k

Wow!!!

Holy Crap!! Thats some crazy $hit! I definitely give you props for having some enormous balls, but I dont think I could actually go that far....especially with snow and retarded Wisconsin drivers!


I.............. can't ...............stop .................looking....

crzygosu87

iTrader: (4)

stripping the door panels, pillars and headliner can be some good weight reduction too

Inaccurate

Not trying to gut the car with no discretion

My guideline is to remove items discreetly and inconspicuously.

With all of the items that I have removed thus far, if I had a passenger, they would not notice anything unusual with my car (provided that I did not let them see inside the trunk). Even my wife would not notice anything amiss with the car either.

ndx2

rear window motors/actuators, plastic pockets behinds fronts seatbacks, rear center arm rest, center seat belt, hood lifts replaced by a metal rod...

all of this seems like an effort by some broke ass kid trying to get some performance without spending any money. just kidding

Eoanou

Yes you should definitely consider a lighterweight battery, perhaps the Optima Red Top as those are performance oriented batteries and you should think about buying lightweight rims and a CF hood, although I bet the CF hood would only subtract at most 5LBS from what you have now, so it may not outweight the cost, no pun intended.

Inaccurate

In the link above, take notice of how those 0-60 MPH times improved with each step. To me, this is the most rewarding because this is where I feel that the biggest gains are with my project too. Well, the handling improves by "leaps and bounds" too. Again, the 0-60 MPH is where I can utilize the improvements the most too if you know what I mean (if not, I am impling some friendly contest at red lights).

And, since I have your attention, let me repeat again (bang my head into the brick wall once again) for my "special" readers. My TL looks no different than your TL. If I parked mine next to yours, the average person would not spot anything wierd with mine (provided that we kept the trunk and hood closed, but the average person does look in these areas either).

extremetls

yours would also probably be riding a little higher

you should get some coilovers and drop it some.

Inaccurate

This is an interesting topic that has me somewhat confused.

In the beginning, I had to re-aim my headlights because the nose lifted up from the weight loss (before removing bumpers). After removing the lining from the trunk, the rear came up just slightly.

But, after removing the bumpers this weekend, it looks like the car has not risen up anymore. When I lift up on the fenderwells with my hand, the car seems VERY RIGID. It does not move upward ANY. And, this is how the car felt even before removing the bumpers. It is AS IF the suspension is at it's maximuim upward travel. This is how the car feels going over bumps and wripples in the road too.

Now, notice that I said "AS IF". We know that if I lift the car up with a floor jack that the suspension will travel more. But, for some odd reason, the car is behaving as if it was resting against a bump-stop preventing anymore upward travel. To me, this is GREAT. The car has AWESOME road feel. I feel the pavement like I never have in any car in my whole life. I LOVE IT !!!!! It is not harsh. I can not explain it other than saying it FEELS DAMN GOOD to me !!!

Overall, the car has not really risen any percievable amount. I check this often visually. This is a pic of my car BEFORE removing *anything*. I took the pic to show my new tires (for my 255/40-17 thread). My car still looks identical to this photo in regards to the amount of space showing above the tire in the wheelwell.

pohljm

Ok, my first guess was that it is really just an elaborate april fools joke.

I have always supported this reduction of vehicle mass as a free performance mod, and I have been fairly quiet about the elimination of the side curtain air bags. But for you to remove the actual bumpers from your car I am really starting to wonder. You have already shown that you have given this performance option allot of research and thought and effort.

The photo below shows a part that you removed, looking suspiciously like a structural arch.
[IMG][IMG]http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL836/1216349/14701054/224051801.jpg[/IMG
[/IMG][IMG]
these pieces that you have removed perform very vital roles. In the event of any collision there will be no direct way to transmit the forces of impact into the strongest sections of your chassis. These two arches previously took care of that, now your engine will be directing those impact forces into firewall and into the cabin. You may as well remove the complete SRS system and other air bags now as you have effectively destroyed the ability for the bags to be deployed properly, the deceleration numbers that it expects to see will not occur without the arches ability to absorb and transmit force to the chassis. quite possibly the engine will have been pushed into the firewall before being able to cause the entire car to decelerate enough to deploy. Oh yeah and the metal plate in the glovebox door is anothey vital safety component.

You should put those parts back in just because you love your wife, its the responsible husband thing to do. and like you have said before.......she will never notice.

Touge

I love weight savings as much as the next guy, but I would advise to put the bumper beams back on for all the reasons mentioned above.

I did replace my stock RL battery today for a TSX battery. It's a direct swap and takes 5 mins to do. It saved me 13 lb.

Eoanou

13Lbs from the front end should help a bunch, actually.

Inaccurate

Sorry for taking so long to check-in.

First, I want to thank the folks for defending my actions.

Second, I want to thanks the folks that take the time to correct some reading comprehension errors of others.

Third, and most important, I wish to thank nearly all of the nay-sayers that posted today. I am not being sarcastic. I do realize that the nay-says are concern with my safety (well being). How can a person object to someone trying to help them ? UNlike some cheap-shots a few days ago, the posters today have well intentions...and I take their comments as caring concern. THANKS GUYS !!!

"pohljm" does have good points regarding the front bumper. "pohljm" comments have cause me to second-guess my actions regarding the front bumper.

Inaccurate

"pohljm" is a very insightful gentleman.

He stated -
"You have already shown that you have given this performance option allot of research and thought and effort. "

And, he is right !!!! This is not the first car that I have stripped. When I was a young person (25 yrs old), I bought a new 1985 IROC-Z (Z28). First day home, the cat was removed. Within a year, no rear seat, no bumpers, etc. Added racing harness (racing seat belts). Two years later, no a/c, no radio, added B&M racing auto trans, motor completely reworked (manifold, camshaft, headers, flowmasters).

The oem IROC-Z did 15.2 seconds in the 1/4 mile (according to the car magazines). I had mine down to 13.2 seconds with street tires. The "13.2" figure came from a real racetrack, not pulled out of my ass.

But, the main point is that I learned where the boundaries are for a daily-driven car. I stripped my IROC-Z to the point it became unsuitable for daily driving. But, it was a blast as a weekend worrior.

So, I am not in uncharted waters here.

johnny--2k

I can agree with what pohljim said, and at the same time, I will defend you by saying it's your car, your choice. Now, that does not mean I dont care about your well-being, it just means I will not judge you as any less of a rational/caring/sane/reasonable/normal car enthusiast.....


Again, I do agree with pohljim though, for the sake of your family, think of the greater impact that this could have is something were to happen....knock on wood....

pohljm

I realize that it is his car and decision, my concern was that someone may mistake these inner bumper parts as just 18lbs of expendable corrugated plastic filler and not understand the critical structural function that it provides.

It does not take much searching to find threads regarding the amazing safety that our cars have provided in accidents, some recent ones I have seen, where if the side airbags and or front bumper had been removed I am sure would have turned out a great deal worse. You are paying a premium for this safety and engineering, don't sabotage it.

MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!

Inaccurate

Many people on this board are wimps. How much protection do you have riding a motorcycle ? Have you ridden motorcycles ? I use to have a GS1100 back when it was the fastest production motorcycle available...and yes, I stripped it too (but, that is another topic).

Further evidence that most people on this board are wimps is illustrated in my 255/40x17 tire thread. People FEAR that my tires would EXPLODE (I kid you not) because the 255's are wider than recommended for the rim. What wimps.

I have formal training (2 year degree from a junior college) as a automotive technician (mechanic). NO, my chosen profession is not an auto mechanic. I have a four-year degree from Texas A&M, and I work in the IT field. The auto tech training occurred before I realized that I was able to attend a four-year college.

My point is that I understand why you people are wimps. It is because you do not understand cars. So, it is easy to be afraid of things that you do not fully understand. And, I know I am not a car designer/engineer. But, I have a strong mechanical aptitude. I did review how the TL is made, and I am comfortable with leaving my front bumper off. The lack of a front bumper might hamper safety to a small degree. But, think about it... how much protection is that bumper during a 60 MPH frontal collision ? The bulk of the protection comes from the design of the car body (pic below) and the aluminum front cradle. I am convinced (for my own sake) that the TL bumper is primarily a "5 MPH" bumper.

DISCLAIMER - I am NOT advocating for any readers to remove their side air bags or bumpers. I could easily be wrong regarding these safety issues.



You protested that I was committing suicide about the SIDE air bags until you either ran out of wind, or because I convinced you that the majority of cars on the road do not have SIDE air bags.

Now, we have you going ape shit about the bumpers. Did you know that the government requires auto makers to have "5 MPH" bumpers on cars ? This means that the car must survive a 5 MPH crash without exceeding a certain dollar value of damage.

Here is some info, brought to you via



SOURCE: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...per/Index.html

1) What is a bumper?

A bumper is a shield made of steel, aluminum, rubber, or plastic that is mounted on the front and rear of a passenger car. When a low speed collision occurs, the bumper system absorbs the shock to prevent or reduce damage to the car. Some bumpers use energy absorbers or brackets and others are made with a foam cushioning material.

2) What is the purpose of bumpers?

The car bumper is designed to prevent or reduce physical damage to the front and rear ends of passenger motor vehicles in low-speed collisions. Automobile bumpers are not typically designed to be structural components that would significantly contribute to vehicle crashworthiness or occupant protection during front or rear collisions. It is not a safety feature intended to prevent or mitigate injury severity to occupants in the passenger cars. Bumpers are designed to protect the hood, trunk, grille, fuel, exhaust and cooling system as well as safety related equipment such as parking lights, headlamps and taillights in low speed collisions.

3) What are the Federal regulations for bumpers?

49 CFR Part 581, "The bumper standard," prescribes performance requirements for passenger cars in low-speed front and rear collisions. It applies to front and rear bumpers on passenger cars to prevent the damage to the car body and safety related equipment at barrier impact speeds of 2½ mph across the full width and 1½ mph on the corners.

This is equivalent to a 5 mph crash into a parked vehicle of the same weight. The standard requires protection in the region 16 to 20 inches above the road surface, and the manufacturer can provide the protection by any means it wants. For example, some vehicles do not have a solid bumper across the vehicle, but meet the standard by strategically placed bumper guards and corner guards.

4) Are all vehicle classes required to meet the Federal bumper standard?

No. The Federal bumper standard does not apply to vehicles other than passenger cars (i.e., sport utility vehicles (SUVs), minivans, or pickups trucks). The agency has chosen not to regulate bumper performance or elevation for these vehicle classes because of the potential compromise to the vehicle utility in operating on loading ramps and off road situations.

Inaccurate

This is interesting. This website is called "Is My Car Safe", http://ismycarsafe.com/bumpers.htm, and notice that they even highlighted (bold text) the following phrase:

"What is the purpose of bumpers? It is not a safety feature intended to prevent or mitigate injury severity to occupants in the passenger cars."

pohljm

^^^^^^^^ yadda yadda yadda...........whats the purpose of a generic definition of a bumper? that language is so broad based that it really means nothing in this discussion. The key here is the purpose of the piece that you removed. It has been engineered to work precisely with rest of the passive and active occupant safety devices that protect us. By removing that absorption material.........read deceleration material........you have effectively changed the critical timing of the air bag deployment. My guess would be that the deceleration will happen faster, and instead of meeting the inflated bag you will actually be closer to the wheel/dash than intended upon deployment, possibly inflicting additional injury.

And anyway, out of that entire list of weight savings measures you have performed there is only two in question................. thats pretty darn good!

Inaccurate

^^^^^^^^ yadda yadda yadda...........(I am joking regarding the yadda's)

Seriously, I do concede the point regarding the impact sensors for the airbag system. I am trusting that the sensors will still adequately function without the bumper.