K&N is back
11-19-2004, 11:36 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Yeah, you get to change your oil more often due to the dirt the K&N lets through
11-19-2004, 11:52 AM
#42
Now with i-Vtec
I have been using K&N filters for several years (9 years to be exact) now with no problems. They produce one of the best filters on the market IMO. They make filters for AEM, Injen, Iceman, and others which says a lot about them there alone. Another popular company is Unifilter which is a foam filter used a lot in Japan and Australia.
11-19-2004, 12:01 PM
#43
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ordered the kn
i ordered it yesterday from 4folter.com for $42.17 it should be here in a few days. I used to have one on my gti and it seemed to make a slight difference in HP.
Does anyone know it this has an effect on the warranty or scheduled service by the dealer? I'm do for my B service in 10 days and am wondereing if they will give me shit for putting in the KN filter next week?....
Thank you
Does anyone know it this has an effect on the warranty or scheduled service by the dealer? I'm do for my B service in 10 days and am wondereing if they will give me shit for putting in the KN filter next week?....
Thank you
11-19-2004, 12:54 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by dhager
i ordered it yesterday from 4folter.com for $42.17 it should be here in a few days. I used to have one on my gti and it seemed to make a slight difference in HP.
Does anyone know it this has an effect on the warranty or scheduled service by the dealer? I'm do for my B service in 10 days and am wondereing if they will give me shit for putting in the KN filter next week?....
Thank you
Does anyone know it this has an effect on the warranty or scheduled service by the dealer? I'm do for my B service in 10 days and am wondereing if they will give me shit for putting in the KN filter next week?....
Thank you
11-19-2004, 10:55 PM
#45
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by TheOne305
Really?I thought K&N was just a good as Factory but less restrictive.If what u said is true that sucks.
This guy used a similar idea, but much less controlled than our tests:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
Plus, after they are cleaned, the little cotton "fingers" tend to squash down, making them even less effective. And just because some relatively small companies use them proves nothing - in racing, good filtering is irrelevant, since the engines are rebuilt a lot.
K&N specs ridiculous HP claims - you may see a handful up at the top of the RPM range, but it is a tradeoff against more dirt in the oil. Plus, the quality of the cotton they uise has fallen off - it used to be the best, now it is cheap imported stuff. The best gauze filters I have seen are from AFE - they have a better quality of gauze, and more pleats. They use quality silicone rubber to ensure there are no gaps, while K&N uses cheezy plastisol. Poor fitment will allow a lot of dirt to get into the engine. When we see high silicon levels in an engine that is broken in, we can almost predict with 100% certainty that an aftermarket filter is being used. It is kinda funny - when we call the guy back and ay "how long have you had that *^&^&* filter, they think we can read minds - we can't, but we can read UOA's.
K&M talks about an "oil curtain", but there is no such thing - at least none of my profs had ever seen such a term in their many years of study. Unlike a depth filter (like foam), if the dirt is not caught initially, it is not caught later.
We had high hopes for the foam filters - they look good in theory - they are dept filters, with no straight through passdages. But the lack of straight through passages makes for less airflow, and surprisingly, they did not do much better than the gauze filters in efficacy - we had several theories, including deformation of the foam under the dynamics of high airflow and pressurization, causing the filter to block itself - imagine taking a sink sponge and folding it in the middle a bit - that center piece is not letting much of anything through.
One last tip - Honda makes high quality paper filters. But do not over change them - the holes in paper are somewhat large in the bginning, and until they get plugged, they allow almost as much dirt to pass as does a gauze filter - but after a few thousand miles, they filter much better.
We have found that most of the restriction in Honda intakes is downstream of the filter anyway - you could just leave off the filter, and not see a jump in anything but silicon in the oil.
Yes, many people use the K&N - but without controlling variables, it is hard to deduce anything. One guy may use a K&N and change his oil AND oil filter every 2k miles (like me) - the extra dirt is filtered and does not have much of a chance to accumulate. But if you go "by the book", your oil, oil filter, and air filter are in there a long time. Honda designs for its filtration systems, and adding an uncontrolled variable may have unsatisfactory outcomes, esp in daily drivers.
11-19-2004, 11:31 PM
#47
Gratis dictum
Originally Posted by Road Rage
We have found that most of the restriction in Honda intakes is downstream of the filter anyway - you could just leave off the filter, and not see a jump in anything but silicon in the oil.
Yes, many people use the K&N - but without controlling variables, it is hard to deduce anything. One guy may use a K&N and change his oil AND oil filter every 2k miles (like me) - the extra dirt is filtered and does not have much of a chance to accumulate. But if you go "by the book", your oil, oil filter, and air filter are in there a long time. Honda designs for its filtration systems, and adding an uncontrolled variable may have unsatisfactory outcomes, esp in daily drivers.
Yes, many people use the K&N - but without controlling variables, it is hard to deduce anything. One guy may use a K&N and change his oil AND oil filter every 2k miles (like me) - the extra dirt is filtered and does not have much of a chance to accumulate. But if you go "by the book", your oil, oil filter, and air filter are in there a long time. Honda designs for its filtration systems, and adding an uncontrolled variable may have unsatisfactory outcomes, esp in daily drivers.
11-19-2004, 11:32 PM
#48
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Received and installed the filter this evening. Took her for a short test drive and do feel a bit more pep (especially when the car hits VTEC). VERY easy to chirp 2nd each and every time I shift now. Also the hesitation that I had noticed previously under WOT now seems to be all but eliminated.
I can attest that the K&N is quite a bit smaller (thickness) when placed next to the stock filter, however it fit like a glove (no gaps at all)!!
Also no whistling has been heard.
I would have snapped some shots, however I am pressed for time (leave for NY tomorrow for the first long distance TL trip).
I can attest that the K&N is quite a bit smaller (thickness) when placed next to the stock filter, however it fit like a glove (no gaps at all)!!
Also no whistling has been heard.
I would have snapped some shots, however I am pressed for time (leave for NY tomorrow for the first long distance TL trip).
11-20-2004, 04:37 PM
#51
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by dhager
interesting analysis...so should i just send the KN filter back? will it make my car worse?
What does "make your car worse" mean? Is there something wrong with its intake system already?
A K&N certainly will not affect the buzzing rear deck or the tint scratching. On that i am 100% confident.
11-20-2004, 11:34 PM
#53
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roadrage, does alot of that dirt really end up in the oil? shouldnt the rings and valve guides and what not keep the dirt from entering the oil? wouldnt most of it get burned with combustion and then get forced out the exaust? i would just like to know... and how much worse filtration are we talking? enought that can "ruin" an engine? wouldnt regular oil and filter changes take care of most if not all of it? also wouldnt the oil filter pick up most of the dirt we are talking about? i know its alot, but just a few ? i wanted to ask
11-21-2004, 11:41 AM
#54
Is FRAM the secret sauce?
Originally Posted by Road Rage
We did controlled tests using lab dirt (yes, there is a lab standard dirt, available from large chemical supply houses like Sigma, a supplier of our research labs), a controlled flow pump, and then examined the media for amount of dirt that bypassed the filter. We used extremely expensive optical lab microscopes, and even a scanning electron microscope in one case. All the gauze filters did poorly compared to quality paper filters - there is no magic to it - they get more flow by allowing more air in, and the gaps in their filter media provide that. I saw enough to never use one in any car that I drive regularly - I use a gauze filter (made by AFE www.afefilters.com) in the S2000, but it gets two oil changes a year, which is 2k miles of driving.
This guy used a similar idea, but much less controlled than our tests:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
Plus, after they are cleaned, the little cotton "fingers" tend to squash down, making them even less effective. And just because some relatively small companies use them proves nothing - in racing, good filtering is irrelevant, since the engines are rebuilt a lot.
K&N specs ridiculous HP claims - you may see a handful up at the top of the RPM range, but it is a tradeoff against more dirt in the oil. Plus, the quality of the cotton they uise has fallen off - it used to be the best, now it is cheap imported stuff. The best gauze filters I have seen are from AFE - they have a better quality of gauze, and more pleats. They use quality silicone rubber to ensure there are no gaps, while K&N uses cheezy plastisol. Poor fitment will allow a lot of dirt to get into the engine. When we see high silicon levels in an engine that is broken in, we can almost predict with 100% certainty that an aftermarket filter is being used. It is kinda funny - when we call the guy back and ay "how long have you had that *^&^&* filter, they think we can read minds - we can't, but we can read UOA's.
K&M talks about an "oil curtain", but there is no such thing - at least none of my profs had ever seen such a term in their many years of study. Unlike a depth filter (like foam), if the dirt is not caught initially, it is not caught later.
We had high hopes for the foam filters - they look good in theory - they are dept filters, with no straight through passdages. But the lack of straight through passages makes for less airflow, and surprisingly, they did not do much better than the gauze filters in efficacy - we had several theories, including deformation of the foam under the dynamics of high airflow and pressurization, causing the filter to block itself - imagine taking a sink sponge and folding it in the middle a bit - that center piece is not letting much of anything through.
One last tip - Honda makes high quality paper filters. But do not over change them - the holes in paper are somewhat large in the bginning, and until they get plugged, they allow almost as much dirt to pass as does a gauze filter - but after a few thousand miles, they filter much better.
We have found that most of the restriction in Honda intakes is downstream of the filter anyway - you could just leave off the filter, and not see a jump in anything but silicon in the oil.
Yes, many people use the K&N - but without controlling variables, it is hard to deduce anything. One guy may use a K&N and change his oil AND oil filter every 2k miles (like me) - the extra dirt is filtered and does not have much of a chance to accumulate. But if you go "by the book", your oil, oil filter, and air filter are in there a long time. Honda designs for its filtration systems, and adding an uncontrolled variable may have unsatisfactory outcomes, esp in daily drivers.
This guy used a similar idea, but much less controlled than our tests:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
Plus, after they are cleaned, the little cotton "fingers" tend to squash down, making them even less effective. And just because some relatively small companies use them proves nothing - in racing, good filtering is irrelevant, since the engines are rebuilt a lot.
K&N specs ridiculous HP claims - you may see a handful up at the top of the RPM range, but it is a tradeoff against more dirt in the oil. Plus, the quality of the cotton they uise has fallen off - it used to be the best, now it is cheap imported stuff. The best gauze filters I have seen are from AFE - they have a better quality of gauze, and more pleats. They use quality silicone rubber to ensure there are no gaps, while K&N uses cheezy plastisol. Poor fitment will allow a lot of dirt to get into the engine. When we see high silicon levels in an engine that is broken in, we can almost predict with 100% certainty that an aftermarket filter is being used. It is kinda funny - when we call the guy back and ay "how long have you had that *^&^&* filter, they think we can read minds - we can't, but we can read UOA's.
K&M talks about an "oil curtain", but there is no such thing - at least none of my profs had ever seen such a term in their many years of study. Unlike a depth filter (like foam), if the dirt is not caught initially, it is not caught later.
We had high hopes for the foam filters - they look good in theory - they are dept filters, with no straight through passdages. But the lack of straight through passages makes for less airflow, and surprisingly, they did not do much better than the gauze filters in efficacy - we had several theories, including deformation of the foam under the dynamics of high airflow and pressurization, causing the filter to block itself - imagine taking a sink sponge and folding it in the middle a bit - that center piece is not letting much of anything through.
One last tip - Honda makes high quality paper filters. But do not over change them - the holes in paper are somewhat large in the bginning, and until they get plugged, they allow almost as much dirt to pass as does a gauze filter - but after a few thousand miles, they filter much better.
We have found that most of the restriction in Honda intakes is downstream of the filter anyway - you could just leave off the filter, and not see a jump in anything but silicon in the oil.
Yes, many people use the K&N - but without controlling variables, it is hard to deduce anything. One guy may use a K&N and change his oil AND oil filter every 2k miles (like me) - the extra dirt is filtered and does not have much of a chance to accumulate. But if you go "by the book", your oil, oil filter, and air filter are in there a long time. Honda designs for its filtration systems, and adding an uncontrolled variable may have unsatisfactory outcomes, esp in daily drivers.
Just picked up my Honda filter from the dealer. The filter label says "Made by FRAM". I thought in previous posts your research on FRAM was not encouraging.
11-21-2004, 12:09 PM
#55
Registered Member
To Road Rage;
You should have tested the Apexi "Power Intake" filter. This is the one that I had on my 2002 Altima SE with the Frankencar WAI (really a misnomer since this intake was anything but a warm air unit on the V6 Altima.. also I still have this intake with two Apexi filters). The Apexi is a dry element gauze filter that flowed better than the K&N and best of all, it was NOT an oil-wetted filter!
Too bad Apexi doesn't make an OEM replacement for our TLs.
You should have tested the Apexi "Power Intake" filter. This is the one that I had on my 2002 Altima SE with the Frankencar WAI (really a misnomer since this intake was anything but a warm air unit on the V6 Altima.. also I still have this intake with two Apexi filters). The Apexi is a dry element gauze filter that flowed better than the K&N and best of all, it was NOT an oil-wetted filter!
Too bad Apexi doesn't make an OEM replacement for our TLs.
11-21-2004, 12:15 PM
#56
Team Owner
"Made by FRAM" doesn't mean designed and specified by FRAM. I wouldn't expect Honda to manufacture their own oil filters.
Mike
Mike
11-21-2004, 12:16 PM
#57
Registered Member
A few other things with oil-wetted filters.
They flow more air when new, but they quickly fall off in this area because the oiled gauze acts like a magnet and holds a lot of debris that would otherwise just fall off of a dry element filter. So you need to keep it cleaned.
And oil-wetted filters will depart a slight amount of oily residue into the intake stream (more when you clean it because most people use too much of the replacement oile when the clean). This oily residue can begin to accumulate on the "steps" in the throttle body where the butterfly valve normally makes a good seal. This can result in poor idling, hesitation, and a sticking butterfly valve. Fortunately, our cars do not have MAFs because oil-wetted filters have caused problems with some of them, too.
Purelator makes a very good air filter in their Performance Plus series, though they don't have one out yet for the new TL.
They flow more air when new, but they quickly fall off in this area because the oiled gauze acts like a magnet and holds a lot of debris that would otherwise just fall off of a dry element filter. So you need to keep it cleaned.
And oil-wetted filters will depart a slight amount of oily residue into the intake stream (more when you clean it because most people use too much of the replacement oile when the clean). This oily residue can begin to accumulate on the "steps" in the throttle body where the butterfly valve normally makes a good seal. This can result in poor idling, hesitation, and a sticking butterfly valve. Fortunately, our cars do not have MAFs because oil-wetted filters have caused problems with some of them, too.
Purelator makes a very good air filter in their Performance Plus series, though they don't have one out yet for the new TL.
11-21-2004, 12:20 PM
#58
Team Owner
Throttle bodies with "hot wire" MAFs are especially prone to fouling from oil wetted filters - the oil collects on the wire and screws up the reading. With the incredible complexity and integration of cars these days, I'm inclined to just leave well enough alone.
Mike
Mike
11-21-2004, 03:03 PM
#59
Registered Member
To svtmike;
Yep, you're right. My former '02 Altima SE had a VERY sensitive MAF and guys were blowing these things out right and left. I blew mine out last March to the tune of $500! Funny too, because the stock Nissan OEM filter for that car was also oil-wetted.. go figure.
Yep, you're right. My former '02 Altima SE had a VERY sensitive MAF and guys were blowing these things out right and left. I blew mine out last March to the tune of $500! Funny too, because the stock Nissan OEM filter for that car was also oil-wetted.. go figure.
11-22-2004, 06:22 AM
#60
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RR - nice write up.
So where does that leave us...is this another personal preference thing ? Anyone else have a filter that they have heard is good?
Should I just stick with OEM then - is that better than a Fram?
Side note - you guys mentioned dirt in the oil...when I would do oil changes on my old Mazda, there was always grit and sand like dirt in the oil pan when done...come to think of it the air filter box was not sealed well at all - in fact, broken in one part - could this have been a source of that grit and dirt?
So where does that leave us...is this another personal preference thing ? Anyone else have a filter that they have heard is good?
Should I just stick with OEM then - is that better than a Fram?
Side note - you guys mentioned dirt in the oil...when I would do oil changes on my old Mazda, there was always grit and sand like dirt in the oil pan when done...come to think of it the air filter box was not sealed well at all - in fact, broken in one part - could this have been a source of that grit and dirt?
11-22-2004, 11:48 AM
#61
Gratis dictum
I would like to hear some words of wisdom from our filter media guru, rontatuaf, on this subject. I think it would be helpful.
There are lots of anecdotal stuff floating around with little hard evidence, other than Road Rages comments.
There are lots of anecdotal stuff floating around with little hard evidence, other than Road Rages comments.
11-22-2004, 05:04 PM
#64
Not a Blowhole
1) All: I think all parts choices are personal - one can only read posts from people one trusts, and make a determination
2) "Don't the rings take care of the dirt" - well yes, large particles grind away at the rings and cylinder wall - the smaller ones end up in the oil, but when two small ones get side by side, they serially add up to the sum of their dimensions, and can damage internal parts. Luckily, this almost never happens in triplicates, or higher summations. But the though of fairly large dirt getting into the combustion chamber of a precision and expensive engine gives me the creeps.
3) "Is the dirt enough to damage the car?" That is a function of internal tolerances, frequency of oil change, how long you run your car, and how long you plan to keep it. As I said, if you race, and rebuild every 2nd race, the air filter is there primarily to keep chards of glass, rubber, and carbon fiber out ofd the engine
4) "I've used them for years and......."
Anecdotes are fine, but for every positive one, there may be two unpositives. That is why I like empiric evidence. It can still be debated, but the variables are greatly diminished, allowing a tighter discussion (or argument, depending on the people)
5) "You should have used an Apexi" . There are literally dozens of filters out there, and I do not have the time to examine every one of them - but to a large degree a gauze is a gauze*, and a foam is a foam - it is the paper filters that have a lot of variance. The Honda filters I know of are the S2000 filters, and they are way beyond just some oiled paper, and are not made by Fram.
I do not recall ever saying Fram air filters are bad, just their oil filters. I try to be very careful about word usage, and doubt I ever said Fram air filters are not good.
*Example. I have mentioned AFE filters (www.afefilters.com). They are made as a K&N should be, but they filter about the same. They have more capacity by the great number of pleats, use a better gauze, and their silicone rubber is a higher quality material than plastisol. Their execution of build is better, but that does not improve the filtering a nit.
6) "Oil from wetted filters can wreak havoc on MAF's". Very true - I have seen it on GMs and Fords, and often had to clean customer's wires with a tiny foam swab we use on computer read heads (well, my tech staff does). I did not mention it because I do not think it relevant to the TL, or the S2000 for that matter.
7) Overall, i think the benefits of "hi-perf" aftermarket filters are slight, the risks more than moderate. This is multiplied many times if the filter does not have a proper seal to the air box - wasn't that the problem of previous drop-ins for the TL, which is why it is "back"? Once burned, twice shy - how much confidence do you have if a company bungles it the first time? Sealing is very important in an air box, and you be sure your OE filter seals 100% - always. Warranty work kills profit.
2) "Don't the rings take care of the dirt" - well yes, large particles grind away at the rings and cylinder wall - the smaller ones end up in the oil, but when two small ones get side by side, they serially add up to the sum of their dimensions, and can damage internal parts. Luckily, this almost never happens in triplicates, or higher summations. But the though of fairly large dirt getting into the combustion chamber of a precision and expensive engine gives me the creeps.
3) "Is the dirt enough to damage the car?" That is a function of internal tolerances, frequency of oil change, how long you run your car, and how long you plan to keep it. As I said, if you race, and rebuild every 2nd race, the air filter is there primarily to keep chards of glass, rubber, and carbon fiber out ofd the engine
4) "I've used them for years and......."
Anecdotes are fine, but for every positive one, there may be two unpositives. That is why I like empiric evidence. It can still be debated, but the variables are greatly diminished, allowing a tighter discussion (or argument, depending on the people)
5) "You should have used an Apexi" . There are literally dozens of filters out there, and I do not have the time to examine every one of them - but to a large degree a gauze is a gauze*, and a foam is a foam - it is the paper filters that have a lot of variance. The Honda filters I know of are the S2000 filters, and they are way beyond just some oiled paper, and are not made by Fram.
I do not recall ever saying Fram air filters are bad, just their oil filters. I try to be very careful about word usage, and doubt I ever said Fram air filters are not good.
*Example. I have mentioned AFE filters (www.afefilters.com). They are made as a K&N should be, but they filter about the same. They have more capacity by the great number of pleats, use a better gauze, and their silicone rubber is a higher quality material than plastisol. Their execution of build is better, but that does not improve the filtering a nit.
6) "Oil from wetted filters can wreak havoc on MAF's". Very true - I have seen it on GMs and Fords, and often had to clean customer's wires with a tiny foam swab we use on computer read heads (well, my tech staff does). I did not mention it because I do not think it relevant to the TL, or the S2000 for that matter.
7) Overall, i think the benefits of "hi-perf" aftermarket filters are slight, the risks more than moderate. This is multiplied many times if the filter does not have a proper seal to the air box - wasn't that the problem of previous drop-ins for the TL, which is why it is "back"? Once burned, twice shy - how much confidence do you have if a company bungles it the first time? Sealing is very important in an air box, and you be sure your OE filter seals 100% - always. Warranty work kills profit.
11-23-2004, 07:55 AM
#65
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RR - you are right, your original comments were about the Fram oil filters, not air. Sorry about that. How about this approach to this question/topic - how can I tell if my filter of choice is not a good one? Are there signs or warnings that it is not a good choice? I openly admit - I don't know sh*t about air filters - sound slike you and guys on this forum have tried different ones.
Just curious if there is a way to tell that it is failing or not the best for my car.
As always, I appreciate the comments and feedback.
Just curious if there is a way to tell that it is failing or not the best for my car.
As always, I appreciate the comments and feedback.
11-23-2004, 11:13 AM
#66
Registered Member
To Road Rage;
I'd hardly put the Apexi filter in the same pool as the K&N. I've used both, though I only used the K&N on my '88 Mustang LX 302CID. The pleats in the Apexi are much larger and MUCH more closely gathered than the K&N. No comparison in quality.. the Apexi has it all over the K&N. I run on for close to 2 years on my '02 Altima and when I had my MAF replaced last March, I installed the stock intake back on the car for the work. So I was able to closely inspect the MAF, the intake downstream of the filter, and the throttle body. It was all very clean with not a bit of dirt or dust.
The test I've seen with these filters is pretty impressive.
I'd hardly put the Apexi filter in the same pool as the K&N. I've used both, though I only used the K&N on my '88 Mustang LX 302CID. The pleats in the Apexi are much larger and MUCH more closely gathered than the K&N. No comparison in quality.. the Apexi has it all over the K&N. I run on for close to 2 years on my '02 Altima and when I had my MAF replaced last March, I installed the stock intake back on the car for the work. So I was able to closely inspect the MAF, the intake downstream of the filter, and the throttle body. It was all very clean with not a bit of dirt or dust.
The test I've seen with these filters is pretty impressive.
11-24-2004, 05:44 PM
#67
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by TBone2004
RR - you are right, your original comments were about the Fram oil filters, not air. Sorry about that. How about this approach to this question/topic - how can I tell if my filter of choice is not a good one? Are there signs or warnings that it is not a good choice? I openly admit - I don't know sh*t about air filters - sound slike you and guys on this forum have tried different ones.
Just curious if there is a way to tell that it is failing or not the best for my car.
As always, I appreciate the comments and feedback.
Just curious if there is a way to tell that it is failing or not the best for my car.
As always, I appreciate the comments and feedback.
Good Labs are Breakstone, or the one Lubrication Engineers uses for its LEAP Program. LE sells 10 analyses for about $150, but if you contact one of their dealers, you can often talk them down, esp towards the end of the month or quarter - like any salesman, they are sensitive to numbers. That is just one reason i use LE oils - I like dealing with their sales guys, the products are unbelievable, and I have a good rep with the company, because I have helped them make inroads into the passenger car market with my analysis and ensorsement of their LE-607 differential oil for the S2000. To see that post, go to www.s2ki.com and search for "the truth about 90w oil".
www.le-inc.com
11-24-2004, 05:48 PM
#68
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
To Road Rage;
I'd hardly put the Apexi filter in the same pool as the K&N. I've used both, though I only used the K&N on my '88 Mustang LX 302CID. The pleats in the Apexi are much larger and MUCH more closely gathered than the K&N. No comparison in quality.. the Apexi has it all over the K&N. I run on for close to 2 years on my '02 Altima and when I had my MAF replaced last March, I installed the stock intake back on the car for the work. So I was able to closely inspect the MAF, the intake downstream of the filter, and the throttle body. It was all very clean with not a bit of dirt or dust.
The test I've seen with these filters is pretty impressive.
I'd hardly put the Apexi filter in the same pool as the K&N. I've used both, though I only used the K&N on my '88 Mustang LX 302CID. The pleats in the Apexi are much larger and MUCH more closely gathered than the K&N. No comparison in quality.. the Apexi has it all over the K&N. I run on for close to 2 years on my '02 Altima and when I had my MAF replaced last March, I installed the stock intake back on the car for the work. So I was able to closely inspect the MAF, the intake downstream of the filter, and the throttle body. It was all very clean with not a bit of dirt or dust.
The test I've seen with these filters is pretty impressive.
One test is to put a dab of grease in the plastic of the intake, and see what accumulates on it. But my tests are far more precise, although in truth I have not messed with an Apexi - but what makes it different? The number of pleats affects dirt capacity, but not necessarily the quality of the filtering. As I said, i use a pleated filter in the S2000, but change the oil a lot, and run very few miles a year.
It's all good, there, SB - Happy Thanksgiving, BTW, to all!
05-12-2005, 10:30 PM
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i just saw this post, but has anybody heard of this company before?
http://www.ptuning.com/html/Item-Des...9&ModelDesc=TL
http://www.ptuning.com/html/Item-Des...9&ModelDesc=TL
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