fsttyms1

Play with the rocker ratio via different roller dia on the vtec lobe rocker arm

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I'll chime in here:

I say, GO BIG OR GO HOME.

lol

Decisions decisions....

C2CuSn07 TL

Just need to determine how much fuel economy I am willing to sacrifice....

Majofo

Maybe I missed it, but what's the purpose of the rebuild?

C2CuSn07 TL

The rebuild of the engine or the swap in general?
I intended in putting a fresh power plant in as I plan to stack the miles on when I hit my masters program. Lord knows the physician's assistant program doesn't allow for much time except for food and sleep for two years. At the miles I am averaging annually I will hit 200k by 2015. By that point it will be nearly 300k on the clock before I finish the program and there will be ZERO time and money to pull off this job.
Moving on Rob and I started with a j35 build.....I actually still have the block and heads. I will be shipping it back to Rob this week as we have decided to "Go big or go home". He sourced a j37a2 with approx 87k on the clock. We both decided that it would be best to "Just do it right the first time" and make her a fresh, efficient, reliable, strong engine before I go and swap it all out.

And here we are.

Majofo

Ah, so you're doing a swap, but want to "optimize" it before putting it in.

Not to be a thorn, but are the RL cams proven? Also, does anyone have the profile difference between the two. I have a set of heads and never considered swapping the cams out.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

A few FACTS about the differences between the RL and TL-S camshafts:

2007-2008 TL Type S camshafts with the part number 14100-RDB-A00 and 14200-RDB-A00 have a profile that's more for higher RPM, spirited driving with gobs of high end power and rev to the moon powerband. Big lift. Long duration.

The 2005-2008 RL camshafts with the part number 14100-RJA-000, 14200-RJA-000, 14100-RJA-J00 and 14200-RJA-J00 have a profile that's more along the lines of great low end torque alongside plenty of midrange/top end power. Big lift. Long (but shorter than TL-S) duration.

The detailed description after the part numbers is my own personal opinion however, the last part on the lift/duration is straight from Acura themselves. I consider Acura pretty much a "proven" source. One thing about Acura is they love to brag about their design and engineering. Simple research on their vehicles will reveal that there is in fact a difference between the two camshaft profiles.

****UPDATE****

Mr Jesse's pistons were fully prepped today and are now awaiting a fresh dip in thermal coating. Hopefully, this will be completed tomorrow while at the shop and get the move on with some short block assembly.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Majofo

Does anyone have the lobe numbers though? Is the incident angle between the intake and exhaust side the same?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

07-08 TL-S (j35a8) and 07-09 MDX (j37a1)*

Intake PRIM 35.112mm MID 36.394mm SEC 35.112mm
Exhaust PRIM 36.389mm

* although the lift specs are the same between the RL and MDX, Acura has never specified wether or not the durations are the same. They are different part numbers and Acura only reports that they are splined hollow/composite shafts with steel lobes pressed on. This makes them even lighter than the TLS cams however are NOT regrind candidates.

05-08 RL (j35a8)

Intake PRIM 35.284mm MID 36.445mm SEC 35.284mm
Exhaust PRIM 36.389mm

The RL and MDX cams are most definitely tougher cams in most cases but the TLS cams would be ideal in situations where the engine was built for stronger high rpm powerband such as a small displacement 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 etc...

The MDX cams are probably the best cams for those who want to purchase an oem cam with no future intentions of regrinding them. They are the hottest and lightest cams Acura has made even to this day in a five lobe (per cylinder) design camshaft. The RL as well as the TLS cams are ideal candidates for regrinds since they are not composite shafts. Lastly, because of their longer duration, the TLS cams have the most available material in regards to fulfilling more profiles compared to the RL cams.

fsttyms1

Love my MDX cams

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Kris, I too love your MDX cams.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

These numbers are a bunch of crap, check the helm's service manual for the 05-08 Acura RL from helm's and you'll find this for the 05-08 Acura RL cams:

fsttyms1

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I'm aware of this. However, I've measured two different sets of RL cams and have confirmed they match the specs that I posted. Not sure why some service manuals say that but I'm sure it has something to do with the RL and the TL-S sharing the same engine code (j35a8).

I've had many discussions on this exact subject and I just say prove it with numbers. You will see.

Majofo

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900722

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

That's one of them. But never seen any numbers.

C2CuSn07 TL

Decision made on cams. They are about to get Bisi

Majofo

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Should take a look at this for those re-grinds..

http://www.wpctreatment.com/

I've heard really good things about it and should help. I'm looking at doing some regrinds myself and will definitely be having them wpc treated.

Bisi will offer it if you ask, but they just send them off to be done it's a patented process from my understanding and they're pretty much the only place that does it.

lol they can actually do other components too like the crank, pistons, rings, main bearings, etc..

This is going to be an expensive build.

Here:

C2CuSn07 TL

Update: Talked to Rob about 30min ago. His hands are too raw to text or type as he has been prepping/scrubbing pistons for two days straight. He is hoping to get them coated and installed by Saturday.

NvrDwn

Get some bullet cams bro. Jmo. TB Motorworx has them, regrinds, stroker kits etc etc.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Although WPC (as well as other similar methods of strengthening) coatings have their place in the performance realm, I have been told that Honda uses a fully hardened forged piece of material to start off with and because of this, hardening after a grind is no longer needed.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Think you mean billet cams.

Billet cams are needed for when a specific cam profile is requested that can't be done off of the existing cams profile due to excess material removal which may cause valvetrain physics to be too extreme and lead to a failure. Otherwise, regrinds are ideal...especially in Jesse cam profile request and budget.

C2CuSn07 TL

Speaking of updated pics...........Rob

jahkno_

sweet, good luck with build

C2CuSn07 TL

kingkong_dav

damn brother thats what i want. a j37 6 speed auto swap in my 07 at type s. it would be sick i will wait for you to complete yours. can you keep records of how harnesses will work and not work and what parts can be reused. etc etc

C2CuSn07 TL

Time to update this thread. Well due to a machine shop error the j37 has been trashed.

Back to square one. Rob and I have decided to go with a BNIC J35. The same heads and cams will be used.

Either Rob or I will keep everything posted.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ ooo no what happened?!?! j37a1 table?

C2CuSn07 TL

Rob discovered it as he was bolting in the crank. It was losing the ability to rotate the tighter things became. A bit of warping took place.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

crankshaft warped? or block warped?

Majofo

brand new in crate?

Sonnick

Do you still have the J37a1 heads? If not I have them from the 2011 MDX with 14k. Good luck with the build!

bdbconcepts

how much was the bare block?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

As Jesse has explained, the machine shop did something during the process of honing the block that caused the crank journal alignment to distort. This wouldn't have been such a big ordeal but we have already clearanced the journals and purchased/installed the main bearings. This means once we made corrections by align honing the mains, the same process would've had to been redone and all new bearings purchased due to clearances changing. I had a brand new, in the crate from Honda, j35z3 that I just purchased for myself and we agreed that using that instead and scrapping the j37 would keep us where we needed to be. I am basically giving Jesse the short block as he has already paid me for several services and parts on the j37. Jesse is a good dude and I'm happy to make things right for him. That's business, sometimes you just take one for the team and keep going.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ good man

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I had the same thing happen to me.....doing the final install, the crank was binding so badly that it would barely spin.

I also ordered a brand spanking new j32 block as well......What an expensive venture this is!

Sonnick

Looking at these specs, it seems the RL cams have equal or MORE lift compared to the TL-s in every way. Just by looking, I'd assume the RL cams would be better for top end? Obviously the duration isn't posted, though.

Also, how do we convert this into the 'cam specs' that you see online? Such as ".419 lift" etc?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yep, at this point you can't help but think how much trouble could snowball from such a minuscule (now) issue such as this. Nevertheless, the block (as mentioned earlier) will make a expensive j-series table....not TOTAL loss.