thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

So is that a mount #2 that broke from xlr8

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Good eye, I didn't catch that at first.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

How are things going Jack?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Things are taking longer than I hoped, but that is to be expected. Bert's engine needed more work than expected, fixing stripped out threads and replacing other items. At this point I hope the internals are good and we can get it tuned soon. I was looking up Bert's videos and saw a few showing a lot of exhaust smoke even minutes after start and that has me concerned.( think this was from the stock engine). I didn't compression or leak down test the engine, figuring that it was pretty new and that may come back to bite me.

We are looking at a way to block off the fuel flow to the stock in tank FPR to allow the aftermarket FPR to see full pressure. The engine is in the car so we are close, just minor issues that are holding things up. I don't see how a aftermarket FPR would ever see full pressure with the stock FPR dumping fuel first.

I took a few pics during a visit, of the engine in the car, but they suck because they were taken from my phone and I was in a hurry.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

According to Gerzand, if you plan on running stock fuel pressure (52-56psi), then you can leave it in. If you plan to go higher, then you'll need to eliminate it.

What pump are you running?

I've got the Aeromotive 340 and that flow (340lph) is spec'd between 50-55psi. As you increase the pressure, the flow decreases. In the instructions, there is a flow and current draw graph relative to pressure vs flow.

BTW, vendor screwed up and only sent one Cometic gasket, so it was sent back. Going OEM now.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^ do you have any pictures if the cometic gasket you received?...because when I ordered a set back in 2012 they were not 2nd gen jseries ( revised oil drain/cast in ehaust manifold) compatible. I talked to an engineer and they did not have the proper tooling at that time to offer a solution.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I thought stock fuel pressure was lower than that, I think my target pressure is around 65 psi, so the bypass will be needed. I'm running the Walbro that came with the kit, mine is quiet and Rodney was having issues, so I didn't order the Aeromotive pump.

That sucks about the cosmetic gasket, but sounds like you will be better off with the OEM head gasket.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

This is the only picture I have, which was used to return it.



Like me, you need to decide how to plug the factory FPR opening or bypass whatever the fiber filled area is and go directly from the pump to the outlet connector.

I looked at the Walbro specs. They are identical. Walbro specs 220lph@80psi and Aeromotive specs 340lph@50psi. If you look at the Aeromotive graph, at 80psi it is the same 220lph flow.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^ Good thing you sent it back...youd have quite a mess on your hands

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Update : The install is going very poorly, looks like my fears have come true and Bert's engine maybe total garbage. I'm returning from vacation so I don't have the full picture, but it looks like the car will be returning home on a tow truck instead of under its own power. I will get a clearer picture when I return home, but major issue after major issue is starting to shake my confidence in this project. I will post another update when I know the full extent of the issues I'm having. Let this serve as a lesson to do your home work before jumping in this deep.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Man, that sucks to hear. Hopefully it's not as bad as you're initially hearing and it will be easy remedies. In most cases I've always found the things I've feared the most to be the easiest to fix, and yet the things I thought were simple took a bit more effort.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Curious where things went wrong with that engine.

Is it something that will kill your project?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Sorry to hear, man.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Update: The car is back at home, unfortunately on a tow truck. The issues with the engine started small with fixing some threads the stripped out, but otherwise didn't seem too crazy. I left for a vacation knowing the shop needed to figure out the stock FPR delete to allow my AEM FPR to control things and a few other hiccups, but that they should be done by time I returned since the engine was in the car before I left. What ended up happening was not so smooth.

When they cranked the engine for the first time, the Gates timing belt I was using snapped, due to I'm thinking the oil pump being seized. That short time of the engine cranking over and not supplying oil to the heads, killed the rear cam/ head combo. Oil was added to the front head like normal so it had enough oil to save it, but the rear head was bone dry from a few years of storage and didn't do well. So I replaced the oil pump and TB, but the back cam was not spinning as freely as the front. At this point I could have swapped over the heads from my old engine and continue, but Bert's heads have a lot of money in them with the new valves,springs and type-s cam. When i returned from vacation I decided since the rear cam was turning more freely and I am running out of money , to put everything back together and regroup. I couldn't find any other damage front the dry cranking and don't want to tune with the damaged head.

The next round of issues were with getting the car home. The injectors I'm using are modified RDX injectors which are running twice as much fuel as stock RDX units I was using. This means the car will barely idle, with the super rich tune I was running for the stock engine. I live pretty close to the shop and wanted to save some pride and money by driving it home, but after a visit to the shop last night I decided towing it home would be a better idea. The car stalled 3 times in the shops garage, trying to get used to the twin disc clutch and the with it running so rich it was a no go.

As it sits the car is in the garage with everything installed and no tune. At this point I am trying to decide if I should transfer the valves and other non damaged items from the damaged heads to my stock heads or just install my stock heads and have it tuned. Either way I need to replenish my car fund before anything more can happen. I'm relieved to have it back , but disappointed that I didn't finish it.

UTAH TSX

Is the only issue the cam hard to turn ? no bent valves ? if so get some break in oil like joe gibbs an run it for a few hours it will loosen up, I've had several j series engines run dry (drain plugs fell out lube bay kids left loose) and seize the cams and break the timing belt, we put a belt on cranked it until it got oil and fired it up, one is a regular customer and it's still running strong 5-6 years later, or pull the cam out and polish the journals with fine grit emery cloth

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I think the only real issue was the cam. When I was told the oil pump failed I invisioned the whole engine being damaged and with the timing belt snap on top of that I was concerned this was the end of my project for a while. We have run the car for a hour or so, but with the tune being so off I can't tell if the cam is still hanging up or it's just the tune. Thanks for the info.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

LOL you do work at a Honda dealer don't you? One of my best friends was a tech and he's seen the same thing happen quite a bit. To the degree of not just the drain plug falling out, but the lube bay guys not filling it with oil at all and sending the customer on the way. A few got home (100+ miles away) and then called back saying the oil light was on and it wasn't running well. They topped it off with oil and good to go. Might have caused some wear and killed longevity, but it's a testament to Honda reliability.

Good luck with it HiSpeed - hopefully it will be fine. I forget - do you have a hondata? Is there a reason you're running it so rich right now? You can adjust the injector size in Flashpro and gain much better idle quality immediately.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'm running the Mega Squirt 3 and I don't know how to use the software. I will be buying a Flash pro at some point, but until then I will tow the car back and have it tuned in a few months. The tune most of the turbo guys still running the stock engine have it very rich to compensate for the 11:1 compression. Now 9.5:1 comp on the new engine and rich AFR make the car run very poorly.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Are you running TunerStudio as the tuning software? If so, you should be able to open the tune, go to settings, constants, and click required fuel. Then just change the injector flow rating to your new injector. No VE changes needed right now, at least to crank it. You'll ideally have to retune the entire VE map because you now have a totally different engine - i.e. ported heads, different CR, etc. but it should idle and drive much better.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I have a commuter car so I can let the car rest. I never bought tuner studio, because of the amount of time it took the professional tuner to set up my tune and figured I would do more harm then good by making adjustments. I am just happy to have the car home, every day the car is at the shop is nerve racking with cost going up and more issues presenting themselves. Thanks for the tips on getting the correct injector size loaded into the tune.

Early in MS3 tuning people kept talking about what Beta version we are running and how that has to be used for tuning. Also that upgraded versions were not loading right. Things were very confusing which was another reason for not buying Tuner Studio. I spent $500 on a tune and didn't want to screw it up.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Idle has been a bear with the MS3. Not sure if the ECU is interfering with the idle control circuits that are still connected or if it was a simple case of increasing the resolution at the lower end of the map, but after retrofitting an 08 to my 06 and running FP, I never pursued it.

In my case, the car would idle, but coming to a light or just blipping the pedal would cause a dip in the rpm which would sometime stall, sometime not. Was a real PITA. With the Tilton clutch and having the monstrous pedal effort of the stock release setup, stalling was inevitable.

Jack, sorry to hear about your problems. Could you just replace the cams with your stock cams? Did Anthony do a P&P on the heads/runners?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I was told the way the cam is held in, the surfaces of both the cam and the retainer maybe damaged. I thought there were some type of bearing, similar to the crank bearings that the cam used. I never saw the heads off the car, but it looked like the heads were ported from what I could see through the runner. The runners are not ported, but I think they were runners the seller put on so he could sell the ported runners the engine had.

I would love to just swap over the stock cams, I just don't know if the retaining surfaces are damaged.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I just took a look at the service manual and there are no races on the head. You've got to check the both the head and cam with a bore gauge and micrometer to see if one or both are toast.

The other thing I was told, which Robert or someone could confirm, that P&P isn't really all that beneficial with FI, just turn up the boost. I suppose if you were looking to squeeze every HP out of the engine it would matter.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

My interest is more in the better valves and stiffer springs, since I think they will help with a high boost setup. I should have switched out to my stock heads when I heard about the stuck cam because it will be a lot harder to change in the car. The only way to find if the heads are damaged is going to be costly, so my stock heads are looking more inviting.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I'm putting KMS valve springs in my heads as well. Were the valve multi cut and coated as well?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure, but it looked like a nice setup with the valve covers removed.

UTAH TSX

The big thing with turning up the boost is good exhaust valves I used supertech inconel exhaust valves (k24 engine in my TSX) if you keep the stock valves disaster is a sure thing the exhaust valves get hot and snap the head off and destroy the head the piston chunks blow into the turbo and kill it and may ruin the cylinder, hi speed if it is running now with the good heads just run it if it was going to seize a cam it would have done it already and save up the money for flashpro and Vit viper tuning can give you a safe tune for $200 dont waste the money and time checking the heads (just my thoughts)

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Just curious what vendor you picked yours up from, I noted heeltoe has cometic head gaskets for the 04-08 TL

I noticed they said they have a .027" thickness, I think that may change the quench a bit, but not much, since the thickness of the OEM gaskets is like 0.6mm = .02362", if I'm not mistaken (better to have lower quench distance I think.. better squish, same thing)

Any chance you have an OEM gasket thickness?

I think piston-deck is about 0 or maybe .001" so the headgasket is the biggest determining factor of squish in this engine

I was considered the cometic gaskets, I just got some pnp heads back from pure tuning that I'll be installing with bisi cams eventually

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Pro Import Tuners but as it turned out it wasn't compatible so I was fortunate that they messed up on the shipping. They were excellent with the return process, even refunded the shipping cost.

So I don't have any info because I never opened it up.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The engine is back home and I was able to take some pics of the block and pistons tops. They look pretty good for almost 90k boosted miles. The shop removed the heads so I was able to take it home in the SUV and wrestle the block onto the stand. I was planning on selling the block locally, but I think keeping it so I can put the car back to stock at some point is a better idea.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Is that bert's motor, or your stock one?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Those are stock pistons so it must be his original block. Bert's had custom Wiesco's and I would imagine they would be dished.

I also don't think Bert put 90K miles on his motor.

Jack, have you come up with plan B yet?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

This is pics of my stock motor, Bert's is in the car. I have not decided on a course of action yet. I am toying with the idea of just running he heads I have on there. I had the shop remove the heads from my stock motor with the idea that I could run those on this motor, but it's gong to require another trip to the shop on a tow truck and another $1000 between the tune and head install.

The other part of the plan I am trying to decide on is the tuning. Do I keep running the MS3 and pay $500-$600 to tune it or do I call it a day on the MS3 and use the money to go to a Hondata setup. I have only had the car tuned using the MS3 once and I left it alone, mostly because to didn't want to waste the money spent on the tune or damage the stock engine. I would love to be able to play with the tune, but on the other hand if the car is making good power, why mess with it. So I'm still working on that one.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I vote Hondata just for simplicity. I think the MS3 has a place, especially for auto cars since it is the only option. The Hondata gives you the best of both worlds - stock driveability, and boost tuning capability. I'd think it is more likely to find tuners more familiar with Hondata than the MS3, though a true 'tuner' should be able to tune any vehicle so that's less of a critical reason.

You said you only had the car tuned once. If you don't change parts all the time, it should only need to be tuned once. With this new motor, it will definitely need a retune.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

If you found a tuner that got everything dialed in, especially the idle, then I'd say stay with the MS3. I like the fact that there are a lot of I/O's to control boost, WMI, etc.

UTAH TSX

I use VitViper tuning and flashpro he has tons of experience and I feel safe letting him set the power limits to a safe and relabel point It sucks blowing up motors here is my last dyno tune I will ever do I will only see what the numbers are on the dyno

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

so did his tune blow up the motor? Or did you do something else to it that cause the failure?

UTAH TSX

It was a local tuner the most popular in salt lake city that did this not VIT, I feel like there is not enough time to do a slow bump in timing and leaning out the fuel and watching for knock unless you can afford a ton of hours on the dyno and drivability is soooooo much better with a Vit tune

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I still need to have my car tuned by Vit. Just don't have to the time datalog

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Update: I need some help identifying these pistons
Took the car in last week to have the heads swapped and the car tuned. It was New Years week so the machine shop couldn't do the heads until Monday. Went back to the shop today to check on things and noticed the engine without the heads on and what looked like the stock pistons. I consulted pics of my stock pistons and the ones in the engine were not identical but, not dished as I was expecting.
I wasn't able to find any pics of the top of Bert's or anyone else's Weisco pistons. I bought the engine from Brice at Endless Performance, a vendor I trusted and who bought Bert's car after the accident but, I'm concerned now having seen the pistons. The engine had more issues than expected from one rebuilt as recently as Bert's was, but chalked it up to siting before install and damage done in the accident. I really hope that this isn't a stock engine I put all this money and labor into. Any info or pics that can shed some light on if these are in fact low comp Weisco pistons or just stock replacements would be a huge help. Here are some pics of the piston tops that I took today.