Group Buy for JnR ECU - Dyno's/Gains (12/23); Prices Posted (1/7)
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swoosh (12-24-2011)
12-24-2011, 12:07 AM
#202
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The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list.
14.
15.
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list.
14.
15.
12-24-2011, 01:35 PM
#204
The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list.
14. Joe Manteiga 06 AT - sloppyjoe92
15.
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list.
14. Joe Manteiga 06 AT - sloppyjoe92
15.
12-24-2011, 02:55 PM
#206
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^^^ as mentioned in page1....this unit retails for $1400....the price is not disclosed yet (since Rodney is not yet a vendor), but expect the price to be around the 1100-1200 mark. List is for serious buyers, so if you think your ok around that price tag, let me know and will put ur name on the list....
Rodney will become a vendor and then post a price and finally post payment instructions....Once we pay, he will have the unit delivered within 3 weeks.
Rodney will become a vendor and then post a price and finally post payment instructions....Once we pay, he will have the unit delivered within 3 weeks.
12-24-2011, 05:50 PM
#209
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The thing on VTEC engagement is certainly interesting. Goes against pretty much all the internet "common knowledge" I've read.
12-24-2011, 10:21 PM
#210
Np Fenda. Wow, I didn't even see the diagram. Thanks Tim! I wasn't sure exactly what controlled it, I just knew that those flaps were used to control airflow.
Swoosh: Thanks for the advice. The only reason I asked was because Andy had said they were no good once the manifold was ported. Also, reese (2G TL who ran 13.6 @104) had his deleted as well, and thus far I've seen no one trap near 104 with their butterflies intact, hence my reasoning. But then a couple members had said they felt a loss in power, so I was/am still all confused!
Swoosh: Thanks for the advice. The only reason I asked was because Andy had said they were no good once the manifold was ported. Also, reese (2G TL who ran 13.6 @104) had his deleted as well, and thus far I've seen no one trap near 104 with their butterflies intact, hence my reasoning. But then a couple members had said they felt a loss in power, so I was/am still all confused!
12-25-2011, 12:26 PM
#211
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this is probably a really stupid question...(strapping on flame suit)...but is the ECU the same for base and type-s?
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SharksBreath (12-25-2011)
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12-25-2011, 03:26 PM
#214
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^ok so you're saying the wiring is different between base and type-s?
but the MS3 is the same regardless so it doesn't matter?
but the MS3 is the same regardless so it doesn't matter?
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SharksBreath (12-25-2011)
12-25-2011, 06:16 PM
#216
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Ballast (ECU) is the same, Bulbs (tune) is what you like, Harness (Harness) is based on how you connect to your stock ECU....
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SharksBreath (12-25-2011)
12-25-2011, 06:41 PM
#217
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thanks guys.
so swoosh, when is this getting going?
so swoosh, when is this getting going?
12-25-2011, 06:46 PM
#218
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^^^ the minute we hit 15 on the list....
I spoke to Rodney earlier and he said he will be reaching out for the Vendor details within the next week or so....
I spoke to Rodney earlier and he said he will be reaching out for the Vendor details within the next week or so....
12-25-2011, 06:56 PM
#219
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alright #15...where are you?
I can't wait to get this thing installed...I'm stoked!
I can't wait to get this thing installed...I'm stoked!
12-25-2011, 06:57 PM
#220
In Dallas, your best bet with the TL is T1 Race Development as they have a lot of experience with Honda engines. Jotech isn't bad, but the TL is a bit of a foreign car to them (major Nissan/GT-R tuner).
12-25-2011, 07:03 PM
#221
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Just an FYI....
the ECU will come with a base tune. The tune will be different for the following cars:
Base AT
Base MT
Type S AT
Type S MT
so when you get the ECU you will have the ECU tuned to gain the most power. This tune obviously will be based on the mods of the Test car.....
You can see the dyno's from the car and pretty much tune it yourself.....worst case scenario you will revert back to the "base" tune which came with the ECU....All you would need is say an hour of dyno time and do some modifications and do a run, do a modification and do a run....
This is how I plan on tuning mine (apart from coming to Texas and kidnapping Inaccurate).....
the ECU will come with a base tune. The tune will be different for the following cars:
Base AT
Base MT
Type S AT
Type S MT
so when you get the ECU you will have the ECU tuned to gain the most power. This tune obviously will be based on the mods of the Test car.....
You can see the dyno's from the car and pretty much tune it yourself.....worst case scenario you will revert back to the "base" tune which came with the ECU....All you would need is say an hour of dyno time and do some modifications and do a run, do a modification and do a run....
This is how I plan on tuning mine (apart from coming to Texas and kidnapping Inaccurate).....
12-25-2011, 07:07 PM
#222
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I'm gonna PM you tomorrow swoosh to make sure I understand everything correctly.
12-25-2011, 07:11 PM
#223
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^^^ sure....also, I have very very limited info as I dont have my unit yet....once i play with it, I bet i can figure out more....
but your most welcome to email me with any questions/concerns and if i dont know the answer to anything will ask Rodney and update you
but your most welcome to email me with any questions/concerns and if i dont know the answer to anything will ask Rodney and update you
12-25-2011, 08:36 PM
#224
The Track Terror
Pretty much what Rodney told me was that they tweaked mostly with the timing advance and fueling to get those numbers...if he (or someone else) can help us out on what exactly to do to change those parameters to make it either more lean or rich and what numbers to put in the blocks (since I believe it is an Excel-type tuning software) to change the timing to maximize power, that would be excellent...
12-25-2011, 08:38 PM
#225
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^agreed. we (I) need some foolproof directions with all this so I'm not going in blind.
12-25-2011, 08:43 PM
#226
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^^^ the tuner wont even tell Rodney "how he did it" as he doesnt want to be eliminated....
you can see in the video's there is an excel "map" where you enter the AFR and you can see that reflect in the dyno graphs....
i was expecting the engine to run have more power while running lean, but as you can see running rich is making more power....
you can see in the video's there is an excel "map" where you enter the AFR and you can see that reflect in the dyno graphs....
i was expecting the engine to run have more power while running lean, but as you can see running rich is making more power....
12-25-2011, 08:50 PM
#228
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^^^ Yes the Dyno's were done on stock Injectors + Fuel Pump....
The Stock Injectors and Fuel pump are great and work wonders. The only reason I suggest getting it when you do some Cam/Head work or going the FI route....
The reason am getting em is coz:
1> I might get some cam/head work done
2> My stock injectors have 160K miles on them
3> Rodney's discounted price is great on these
Also an FYI, for the injectors to fit you can either get the pigtails from Rodney or you can get some scion TC clips and make em yourself
This ECU group buy will be very very customizable....you can practically just get the ECU for a good price or all of this for a great price....its your call
The Stock Injectors and Fuel pump are great and work wonders. The only reason I suggest getting it when you do some Cam/Head work or going the FI route....
The reason am getting em is coz:
1> I might get some cam/head work done
2> My stock injectors have 160K miles on them
3> Rodney's discounted price is great on these
Also an FYI, for the injectors to fit you can either get the pigtails from Rodney or you can get some scion TC clips and make em yourself
This ECU group buy will be very very customizable....you can practically just get the ECU for a good price or all of this for a great price....its your call
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04TL4P3 (12-25-2011)
12-25-2011, 10:19 PM
#229
The Track Terror
Sounds great Swoosh! And yes, I definitely noticed it was pretty rich compared to stock...(my AFR gauge on my Torque Pro *unashamed plug* never really reads in the 13's at all ever! Always in the 14's...even at WOT)
12-26-2011, 01:43 PM
#230
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^^^ damn i wanted to ask you that....how to see the AFR on Torque, guess there is a way
but yeah if you see the AFR of the tune, it never goes above 13....always lingers between 12-13....
but yeah if you see the AFR of the tune, it never goes above 13....always lingers between 12-13....
12-26-2011, 02:20 PM
#231
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Rodney just put his Turbo kit for a GB....Here is the link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/feeler-thread-group-buy-jnr-turbo-kit-customizable-842601/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/feeler-thread-group-buy-jnr-turbo-kit-customizable-842601/
12-26-2011, 03:08 PM
#232
Just an FYI....
the ECU will come with a base tune. The tune will be different for the following cars:
Base AT
Base MT
Type S AT
Type S MT
so when you get the ECU you will have the ECU tuned to gain the most power. This tune obviously will be based on the mods of the Test car.....
the ECU will come with a base tune. The tune will be different for the following cars:
Base AT
Base MT
Type S AT
Type S MT
so when you get the ECU you will have the ECU tuned to gain the most power. This tune obviously will be based on the mods of the Test car.....
Just wonder with either the above mentioned Base Maps what kind of a bump in performance we would see out of the box?
I think this is the critical part of the equation that a lot of people are looking for direction on (including myself).
^^^ the tuner wont even tell Rodney "how he did it" as he doesnt want to be eliminated....
you can see in the video's there is an excel "map" where you enter the AFR and you can see that reflect in the dyno graphs....
i was expecting the engine to run have more power while running lean, but as you can see running rich is making more power....
you can see in the video's there is an excel "map" where you enter the AFR and you can see that reflect in the dyno graphs....
i was expecting the engine to run have more power while running lean, but as you can see running rich is making more power....
At the same time though there should be some form of direction or information on the process in which one would go about achieving similar gains.
The main reason for my concern is that most tuners are not familiar or accustomed to dealing with the TL. Reason being this is the first ECU that offers the ability to really tune the car and get the most amount of performance out of it.
Given that it has all of this potential I think it would be nice if alternative maps could be provided based on some baseline mods that could either be included or purchased separately.
ie) Intake, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback + 5K VTEC
I get that each car is inherently different in its mods but I think the above captures some maps that have already been run and dynod for our viewing pleasure.
By having either ourselves or the tuner start off with a map that is more aligned to the mods of the car from the get go it should make it an easier process of tuning the car to its full potential.
Thus ensuring our car gets the most out of the ECU and we get the most performance gains we can for the money.
I'm sure the tuner that works in Rodneys shop has handled the numerous Turbo TL's and NA TL's that have gone through his shop.
He would definitely have a better understanding of how it responds to tuning vs any other tuner that might be doing this for the first time.
Once again this is of course because in my experience of those who have tuning expertise; most are not really accustomed to dealing with the TL platform.
They may have dealt with RSX, TSX, S2k but as shown in the videos the TL seems to respond differently in comparison. ie) VTEC Increase
I'm not sure if this is feasible or not but just a thought that I had.
Let me know what you guys think.
Last edited by TmaX; 12-26-2011 at 03:20 PM.
12-26-2011, 03:56 PM
#234
I do live in Cali where tuners are more easy to find, but all the tuners I have talked to have experience with mega squirt. Also tuning for max power on your own with no experience and a management system with the kind of control the J&R ECU has is not a great idea.
If you are going to buy race / professional quality engine management and run the engine on the edge of knock, having a pro tune it is going to be vital for the longevity of the engine.
If you are going to buy race / professional quality engine management and run the engine on the edge of knock, having a pro tune it is going to be vital for the longevity of the engine.
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TmaX (12-26-2011)
12-26-2011, 04:27 PM
#235
I do live in Cali where tuners are more easy to find, but all the tuners I have talked to have experience with mega squirt. Also tuning for max power on your own with no experience and a management system with the kind of control the J&R ECU has is not a great idea.
If you are going to buy race / professional quality engine management and run the engine on the edge of knock, having a pro tune it is going to be vital for the longevity of the engine.
If you are going to buy race / professional quality engine management and run the engine on the edge of knock, having a pro tune it is going to be vital for the longevity of the engine.
At the same time I think getting your tuner a good template to start off on can make it a lot easier and faster to tune it optimally.
This would equate to paying less for dyno and tune time as well.
12-26-2011, 05:25 PM
#236
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That sounds pretty straightforward.
Just wonder with either the above mentioned Base Maps what kind of a bump in performance we would see out of the box?
I agree additional instruction would be needed on how to achieve similar gains on similar mods.
I think this is the critical part of the equation that a lot of people are looking for direction on (including myself).
I get where the tuner is coming from because he doesn't want to be phased out of the equation.
At the same time though there should be some form of direction or information on the process in which one would go about achieving similar gains.
The main reason for my concern is that most tuners are not familiar or accustomed to dealing with the TL. Reason being this is the first ECU that offers the ability to really tune the car and get the most amount of performance out of it.
Given that it has all of this potential I think it would be nice if alternative maps could be provided based on some baseline mods that could either be included or purchased separately.
ie) Intake, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback + 5K VTEC
I get that each car is inherently different in its mods but I think the above captures some maps that have already been run and dynod for our viewing pleasure.
By having either ourselves or the tuner start off with a map that is more aligned to the mods of the car from the get go it should make it an easier process of tuning the car to its full potential.
Thus ensuring our car gets the most out of the ECU and we get the most performance gains we can for the money.
I'm sure the tuner that works in Rodneys shop has handled the numerous Turbo TL's and NA TL's that have gone through his shop.
He would definitely have a better understanding of how it responds to tuning vs any other tuner that might be doing this for the first time.
Once again this is of course because in my experience of those who have tuning expertise; most are not really accustomed to dealing with the TL platform.
They may have dealt with RSX, TSX, S2k but as shown in the videos the TL seems to respond differently in comparison. ie) VTEC Increase
I'm not sure if this is feasible or not but just a thought that I had.
Let me know what you guys think.
Just wonder with either the above mentioned Base Maps what kind of a bump in performance we would see out of the box?
I agree additional instruction would be needed on how to achieve similar gains on similar mods.
I think this is the critical part of the equation that a lot of people are looking for direction on (including myself).
I get where the tuner is coming from because he doesn't want to be phased out of the equation.
At the same time though there should be some form of direction or information on the process in which one would go about achieving similar gains.
The main reason for my concern is that most tuners are not familiar or accustomed to dealing with the TL. Reason being this is the first ECU that offers the ability to really tune the car and get the most amount of performance out of it.
Given that it has all of this potential I think it would be nice if alternative maps could be provided based on some baseline mods that could either be included or purchased separately.
ie) Intake, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback
ie) Intake, PCD, J-Pipe, Catback + 5K VTEC
I get that each car is inherently different in its mods but I think the above captures some maps that have already been run and dynod for our viewing pleasure.
By having either ourselves or the tuner start off with a map that is more aligned to the mods of the car from the get go it should make it an easier process of tuning the car to its full potential.
Thus ensuring our car gets the most out of the ECU and we get the most performance gains we can for the money.
I'm sure the tuner that works in Rodneys shop has handled the numerous Turbo TL's and NA TL's that have gone through his shop.
He would definitely have a better understanding of how it responds to tuning vs any other tuner that might be doing this for the first time.
Once again this is of course because in my experience of those who have tuning expertise; most are not really accustomed to dealing with the TL platform.
They may have dealt with RSX, TSX, S2k but as shown in the videos the TL seems to respond differently in comparison. ie) VTEC Increase
I'm not sure if this is feasible or not but just a thought that I had.
Let me know what you guys think.
you have ATLP exhaust, someone who has RV6 exhaust will need a different tune and say "ohhh but i have a different exhaust".....same with AEM/KNN intakes.....
the base mod is very very "generic" if you will....it is for people with bolt ons....intake/exhaust....now if you have lightweight pulley, you might need to "tweak" that base map.....this is an extra expense which was taken up by Rodney....initially I told him to just sell the unit and we (customers) will get a tune to our liking/mods.....but he said he wanted this to be a plug and play unit....he wanted to sell this with a base map which will make this unti plug and play for more than 80% of the crowd....
people going FI OR getting cam work done, will have a go ahead and get a completely different tune for this to work best with their ECU....
Definitely from what I have read the DIY tune method can only get you so far.
At the same time I think getting your tuner a good template to start off on can make it a lot easier and faster to tune it optimally.
This would equate to paying less for dyno and tune time as well.
At the same time I think getting your tuner a good template to start off on can make it a lot easier and faster to tune it optimally.
This would equate to paying less for dyno and tune time as well.
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TmaX (12-26-2011)
12-26-2011, 05:59 PM
#237
^^ Yeah I get where your coming from the difference between the ATLP, XLR8, Ritchies, Greddy exhaust when it comes to overall performance is fairly similar as they are all 2.5".
I only suggested the additional maps as it would be sort of an intermediate step between the base maps and paying for dyno+tuning.
Some people might be willing to pay a little bit extra for a 'more customized' base map vs a the cost of a custom map.
I think the best bet like your saying it to just take it to a tuner to do both the Dyno and tune simultaneously.
If your shelling out the $ for the ECU its going to be the best way to achieve the most gains.
For the 6MT crowd its a much easier task as for 5AT I have found most shops are either reluctant or hesitant to dyno AT's in general.
I personally had an experience where they were not able to correctly configure the dyno to read the RPM's correctly.
Therefore the dyno data was off for both the Torque and HP respectively.
This was with a Dynapack dyno and the guy said he just couldnt get the rpms to calibrate with the AT correctly.
What this means I guess is for 5AT owners double check and find a reputable shop to get your ECU tuned at.
Best bet is to call around and ask if they have worked with AT vehicles and if so ask if they specifically have experience with MegaSquirt 3.
I only suggested the additional maps as it would be sort of an intermediate step between the base maps and paying for dyno+tuning.
Some people might be willing to pay a little bit extra for a 'more customized' base map vs a the cost of a custom map.
I think the best bet like your saying it to just take it to a tuner to do both the Dyno and tune simultaneously.
If your shelling out the $ for the ECU its going to be the best way to achieve the most gains.
For the 6MT crowd its a much easier task as for 5AT I have found most shops are either reluctant or hesitant to dyno AT's in general.
I personally had an experience where they were not able to correctly configure the dyno to read the RPM's correctly.
Therefore the dyno data was off for both the Torque and HP respectively.
This was with a Dynapack dyno and the guy said he just couldnt get the rpms to calibrate with the AT correctly.
What this means I guess is for 5AT owners double check and find a reputable shop to get your ECU tuned at.
Best bet is to call around and ask if they have worked with AT vehicles and if so ask if they specifically have experience with MegaSquirt 3.
12-26-2011, 06:28 PM
#238
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So I guess Rodney was reading this thread on his phone and ended up sending this to my email and asked me to post it up for him since he cudnt post it on the thread:
Remember the ecu will come with base tune ,each tune of course will need different adjustments ,accordingly according to upgrades ..
Can't find a tuner ?
Familiar with tuning ?
Have friend that knows how to tune ?
Dont have a Dyno close by ?
Worry not Jandr thought about all of these scenarios ,so with that in mind we recommend using the
VE ANAlyzer ...Whats this ?
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
Read about it, for $69 on sale now have yourself a personal tuner matter a fact its even better than having a personal tuner as its will apply current map used in the car and with an o2 input via plx ,innovative or aem wideband (which we use aem) we connect white wire from aem wideband to o2 input of ms3 ,with this done the ve analyzer is able to create a map for the car wether you rather it to change numbers in tune as you drive using o2 input to tune car for optimal driving experience ,you also control how changes are made if any at all ,or you can have it create a map.without making changes to current tune and look at it as your ready or even limit changes it makes as ypu drive ,doesnt get any better also analzyes logs and recommend changes or allow it make changes ....
A Warning from Jandrnextlevelperformance tuning should be performed by an authorized or certified tuner ,failire to do so can and will cause damage not liable by jandrnextlevelperformance,before attempting to tune your car without knowledge is not recommended ,when using Ve Analyzer N/A applications is recommend only for this application especially when allowing it to make changes on a fly ......
Read all about it
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
Can't find a tuner ?
Familiar with tuning ?
Have friend that knows how to tune ?
Dont have a Dyno close by ?
Worry not Jandr thought about all of these scenarios ,so with that in mind we recommend using the
VE ANAlyzer ...Whats this ?
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
Read about it, for $69 on sale now have yourself a personal tuner matter a fact its even better than having a personal tuner as its will apply current map used in the car and with an o2 input via plx ,innovative or aem wideband (which we use aem) we connect white wire from aem wideband to o2 input of ms3 ,with this done the ve analyzer is able to create a map for the car wether you rather it to change numbers in tune as you drive using o2 input to tune car for optimal driving experience ,you also control how changes are made if any at all ,or you can have it create a map.without making changes to current tune and look at it as your ready or even limit changes it makes as ypu drive ,doesnt get any better also analzyes logs and recommend changes or allow it make changes ....
A Warning from Jandrnextlevelperformance tuning should be performed by an authorized or certified tuner ,failire to do so can and will cause damage not liable by jandrnextlevelperformance,before attempting to tune your car without knowledge is not recommended ,when using Ve Analyzer N/A applications is recommend only for this application especially when allowing it to make changes on a fly ......
Read all about it
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
12-26-2011, 06:46 PM
#239
^I was wondering when that was going to come up.
I think the key to success with this either FI or NA is to either find a good tuner to do the adjustments for you or do some research, learning and playing to the point where you know how hard to push and know when to back down when things aren't right. Even with VE Analyze, you need some basic knowledge of what is right and wrong.
I think the key to success with this either FI or NA is to either find a good tuner to do the adjustments for you or do some research, learning and playing to the point where you know how hard to push and know when to back down when things aren't right. Even with VE Analyze, you need some basic knowledge of what is right and wrong.
12-26-2011, 06:56 PM
#240
^I was wondering when that was going to come up.
I think the key to success with this either FI or NA is to either find a good tuner to do the adjustments for you or do some research, learning and playing to the point where you know how hard to push and know when to back down when things aren't right. Even with VE Analyze, you need some basic knowledge of what is right and wrong.
I think the key to success with this either FI or NA is to either find a good tuner to do the adjustments for you or do some research, learning and playing to the point where you know how hard to push and know when to back down when things aren't right. Even with VE Analyze, you need some basic knowledge of what is right and wrong.