gungrave

By the way did i say that i love them, lol.

94eg!

That's an interesting rotor design. Flows air from the front.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Josh, will there be different colors available or will it just be black?

Friend is looking to buy one for his TL so waiting on GB for him

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

looks bleeedy HAWT !!!!

I hate cars

Agreed, nice looking brakes. I'm glad they're available in black. I think the other colors look really good but I like the sleeper look.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Standard caliper colors are black, red or silver. There are custom color options but they are $250 extra and take 4-8 weeks to complete.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I reviewed the pricing and production dates today. If we place an order today it's likely going to be at least 3-4 weeks before anything can ship. So those of you who are in need of something soon or want to get it on the first 5 kits we are purchasing can take advantage of an initial offer we are putting out there for the next few days.

The list on this kit is $1295. The kit will include one piece 328MM slotted or drilled discs ($100 extra), ST-41 4 piston calipers (red, black or silver), caliper brackets, STOPTECH Performance Street pads, and stainless steel brake lines.

For the first 5 purchases we will offer the kit for $1099 shipped to the cont 48 US (add $100 for drilled discs). We will drop ship the brake kit directly to your door once production is complete. If interested send payment via Paypal to excelerate@sbcglobal.net and specify what you're ordering, for what car, and what color caliper, slotted or drilled, rotor etc.

I will post up more pictures and details once I get them from STOPTECH. Keep in mind this is an XLR8 exclusive kit; you can only obtain this kit through us. We had STOPTECH manufacture it though so that you could rely on the quality of a major manufacturer.

I hate cars

Money sent!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ Damn IHC you pounced on that LOL....

I hate cars

You should hear the squeaking and grinding going on right now lol. Its embarrassing. One of our senior engineers put her hands over her ears as I drove by in the parking lot. Besides, Stoptech is far superior, i can't wait to compare numbers between Stoptech and Rotora and even stock. No more refreshing this thread every hour waiting for them to go on sale lol.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

IHC is the performance that big of a difference from stock to this?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Just a very general question and not targeted at anyone...

You did mention (on a different thread with 94eg!) that the BBK will not help stopping the car quicker, its the tires....

then why spend $1099 for a BBK when you can just upgrade your rotors/pads with stoptech for like 300-400 bucks ?

again this is for my knowledge and we can take this to PM if needed....

I hate cars

Brake fade over repeated hard stops.

The problem with most BBK like Rotora is they increase power to the fronts which is not a good thing. You end up with the fronts doing most of the work and the rears just along for the ride when they could be braking harder. This is probably the reason my car took slightly farther to stop with the Rotoras. It was worth it at the time for less brake fade since I tracked it.

Stoptech uses less piston area in the caliper to compensate for the additional leverage of the larger rotor. You end up with stock or even less than stock front bias. This is the only way it can improve stopping distance and its not because its bigger, its because the bias has been changed.

For one stop stopping power, stock is as good and better than many BBK. There are other advantages such as pedal feel, pad wear and heat rejection and transfer to the caliper/fluid.

94eg!

Yes, it's all about bias (getting the front & rear tires to reach their maximum potential). All you never wanted to know about bias: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...alance-matters

Many different variables effect brake bias and stopping distance:

Factors that will increase front bias
Increased front rotor diameter
Increased front brake pad coefficient of friction
Increased front caliper piston diameter(s)
Decreased rear rotor diameter
Decreased rear brake pad coefficient of friction
Decreased rear caliper piston diameter(s)
Lower center of gravity
More weight on rear axle
Less weight on front axle
Less sticky tires (lower deceleration limit)

Factors that will increase rear bias
Increased rear rotor diameter
Increased rear brake pad coefficient of friction
Increased front caliper piston diameter(s) Increased rear caliper piston diameter(s)
Decreased front rotor diameter
Decreased front brake pad coefficient of friction
Decreased front caliper piston diameter(s)
Higher center of gravity
Less weight on rear axle
More weight on front axle
More sticky tires (higher deceleration limit)

I hate cars

Brake feel should be better but a single stop distance from say 60mph should be about the same. From triple digit speeds the BBK seem to have a more even, consistant pedal feel throughout the stop and after repeated hard stops, the BBK is much better.

From the guys who race these types of cars for a living, I hear that Acura is already pretty aggressive with the brake bias so I'm not sure there's a lot Stoptech can do to decrease the single stop distances. If the car stops as quick as it did with stock brakes, I will be happy. If it stops quicker I will be very impressed.

Luckily I still have stopping distances from different speeds when stock and with Rotora and on the same tires so I'll be able to directly compare. I just have to make sure the same piece of road is still available to make everything even. I also think I did the last test during the summer with hot tires so the Stoptech might be at a disadvantage but I'll test again in summer as well.

I'm not sure how long this whole thing will take but I plan to spend 30 minutes breaking them in, give them a day to heat cycle a few times and the following day, getting some numbers.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Thanks IHC and 94eg!.....

understanding the brake setup was not my forte until now

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

Interesting read 94eg!, thank for the info.

Excelerate I have 1 question:

Why do not make an affordable rear 2 piston bbk with 12.2" or 13" 1 piece rotor from stoptech? I'm sure a lot of aziner are very interested in buying affordable rear bbk from stoptech.

94eg!

That would be purely for bling factor, and that's not really Stoptech's thing.

Multi-piston calipers are designed for thick ventilated rotors. If you switched to vented rotors on the rear of a FWD, you would really only be hurting the performance by adding excessive amounts of unsprung rotating mass. All of which is bad.

FWD pumps most of the energy out through the front brakes. That's why you will never find a FWD Honda with vented rear rotors (at least as far as I know).

I hate cars

I agree for the most part. I never ran into issues with the rears fading until I started running race pads on the front. The rears rims would have smoke pouring out of them. You will never run into issues like this on the street but the rears will give up at the track once you get rid of the first weak link, the front brakes. Even a stock sized vented rotor would probably be ok for the rear. A 2 piston aluminum caliper will be much lighter than the stock iron caliper so weight gain shouldn't be too bad. The front end lost a considreable amount of weight at each corner by going with the larger brakes.

Now that I might have a little more rear bias, I'm a little more worried about the rears but I have no plans to ever go to the track in this car again so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

My first sign the rears were going out the first time was stopping distances were increasing but I was still able to hit ABS easily on the front. On a FWD car, 13" brakes aren't really overkill. With so much of the braking up front, you can definitely fade a 13" BBK on street pads.

One good point you brought up is running stickier tires effectively increases rear bias. Very true and often overlooked.

94eg!

Yeah good point. I always forget the multi-piston calipers are so much lighter.

So where you running race pads in the rear as well at the time of the billowing smoke?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

The cost to develop a rear BBK is high. You have to incorporate two sets of calipers: one to stop the car and one for a parking brake.

Since the rear does the minority of the braking it isn't something we will invest in. The cost of a rear kit would be easily $2000-$2500 too.

I hate cars

No, just Rotora slotted stock sized rotors with a decent pad. Even with the BBK up front, the fronts would start to fade before the rears, it wasn't until I had a race pad up there that I faded the rears. It goes to show that you're right, under any normal conditions and even most abnormal conditions, a rear upgrade isn't needed. With that said, I would probably buy a budget rear brake upgrade if it were offered just because I have mental issues.

94eg!

I feel your pain...

TmaX

iTrader: (1)

If I didn't just pick up a 6MT with Brembo's stock I would have picked one of these up for sure.

A big thanks is owed to XLR8 & Stoptech for coming together on this one.

With that said it appears there is a Rear BBK available.
Willwood Rear BBK 4 Pot

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

But how stupid would it look if you have oem brembo, stoptech or rotora bbk in the front and the rear is wilwood bbk? Dont you think its gonna look so ghetto and not to mention the factor to upset the bias of the rear since they are 4 pot?

IHC is not the only one with mental issues.

I hate cars

It's good to know I'm not alone lol. Good luck with your sale, that's an awesome price for that kit and I feel bad for not buying it. I nearly bought it without knowing if it would fit because at that price I could turn around and sell it without losing money. I know a few people locally that have TLs, I'll put out the word and try to help out.

The bias is exactly the reason I won't mix and match. You can actually calculate the brake force if you know piston size and rotor diameter. If I can find the piston sizes of the Wilwood and stock, might try and find out if it will upset the balance.

I'm not really into looks but if I had two different brands I would have to paint over the name of one of them.

TmaX

iTrader: (1)

I agree on the aspect of bias however I was merely pointing out that a solution does indeed exist.

Your BBK for sale is definitely a good deal which is why I was interested in it previously.
Worked out better for me to put the money towards the 6MT though.

If there was no other viable alternative in future I too would just paint it black.
I wonder why they went with a 4 Pot instead of a 2 though.

Horditruck

iTrader: (1)

Will you be offering shipping to Canada? And how much more will it cost if you plan on offering this? Has anyone test fitted this BBK with the OEM wheels?

I hate cars

I test fitted it with the template and it fit under my stock rims. Close but it has the required 3mm clearance. I bought a kit and I'll have a review up in about a month depending on when they get here if that helps at all.

Horditruck

iTrader: (1)

Cool, now i need to know how much will it cost shipped to vancouver, canada

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

so question, part of what increase front or decreases rear is the pad friction..

would it help somewhat.. not equal but closer to balanace.. if you did street pads up front and race pads in the rear? I dont know the difference of stoptech levels.. actual # designation.. but for example case.. eb300 in front and eb500 in rear?

94eg!

That's a bad idea because race pads have very poor friction when cold. That pretty much means your rear brakes won't be working on the street. Best bet is to run the kit with stock rear pads at first. Then when it's time to put new pads in the back, get a set of Stoptech pads.

I hate cars

I agree, most race pads have bad cold traction but there are a few that are good. The Rotora H6 pads work great when cold. I went from the standard H2 pads to these. Cold braking was good even in winter and there was much less difference from cold to hot. I believe these started with a .45 and went to a .55 where the street pads started with a .2 and went to a .4. You could feel it in one hard stop with the street pads as they got warm you had to back off the pedal a little, the race pads were more consistent.

The downside was an awful squeak when cold. It's not your normal brake squeak, it had people in parking lots covering their ears when you hit the brakes. It could be cured by several back to back hard stops but once that transfer layer was gone they would squeak again and there was no way you could heat them up enough on the street to keep a transfer layer down. Once that layer is gone, they're gonig to wear the rotors quicker.

So the moral of the story, don't run a full race pad on the street but I was very surprised that they worked well in the cold, most do not. I've had pads where I had to drag the brakes for a mile after leaving the house and if you have to make a sudden stop after crusing down the freeway for a while, you're SOL.

That's where the BBK comes in. You can run a less aggressive, more street friendly pad and still not worry about fade.

I looked around at one time for rear pads with a higher friction coefficient because my Rotoras threw off brake bias. You can usually find the number if you search enough. There were a few that were in the .5 range and still streetable. Again, the beauty of the Stoptech kit is you don't have to worry about too much front bias because they actually run less piston area than stock to make up for the larger rotor.

One last thing, a race pad doesn't alway guarantee a higher friction coefficient. Most of the time they have a higher Mu but you can find a pad that works at normal temps with a fairly high mu.

bouncer07

Will you guys be willing to sell just the rotors?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Yes we will have service parts for the BBK's.

4drviper

where did you find this template??????????????

I hate cars

There's a template on Stoptech's website for this kit. I'll post a link later when I get to a computer. You print it out (remove scaling on the printer) and test fit. It clears with ease on the stock 17s.

I'm getting ready to post an update in my thread on this awesome kit, the one with the performance numbers.

4drviper

I'm worried about the new rims I got.

It's on XLR8 website? that's odd,, I must be blind lol gonna look again now.

------------------------

hmm still can't find it. it's not on here
http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-533322.aspx

I hate cars

I got it from the Stoptech site.

4drviper

Stoptech website only has
1pc, 300x28 ST41 http://www.stoptech.com/Search/Produ...rs/BigBrakeKit
2pc, 328x28 ST40 http://www.stoptech.com/Search/Produ...rs/BigBrakeKit

I need the one with 1pc 328x28 ST41 which is what the XLR8 kit is...


The first one's template link doesn't even work.
second one, different caliper. I can't just assume "similar" dimensions