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Does a Voltage Stabilizer Really Work? Road Rage Please Chime IN
There has been alot of hub bub on the forum lately from the Honda Tuner article regarding the performance mods to the TL. One of the mods was the addition of a Sun Hyper Voltage/Ground system.
In other posts, Road Rage has convinced me that the grounding system is BS and buying one is like buying snake oil. However, I am curious about the voltage regulator. Does it really work or not? It appears to be a capacitor that attaches to the positive and negative leads of the battery. Anyone have any concrete info on the merits of these products? |
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Someone must have an opinion....what is it?
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i have no idea about the TL, but my last car (2000 honda accord v6) I had an idle problem where the car would idle at abnormal rpm's... way below the average idle. and sometimes it would want to stall, but it catches itself. I took it into the dealer many times.. and they replaced the PCM, ECU, and tried many other things.. nothing worked.. the car ran though. and out of no where.. i tried a friend's voltag stabalizer... now... all i knew about this was that it was supposed to clean your power and grounds.. i had a full sound system setup, so i decided to give it a try.. and supposedly supposed to add some HP and torque... well when i installed it... it fixed my idle problem, cleaned up my audio noise, and i felt the car was a bit more peppy. so give it a try.. i won't hurt.
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My opinion on these are they only work on older cars... If your car has bad grounds and all then yes it will help, but on a brand new car everything is good and clean so I dont think you will see an improve.
Take a few year old car where everything is not as clean and it will help bring it back to factory spec again... Until I see dynos of a NEW car with and without, (same car) then I would say it does nothing really... It may help if you have a big system but other then that no.. |
Your starter uses way more ground voltage than any sensor will ever get close to needing. If you have a good enough ground to run the starter than you have more than enough ground to work all your sensors.
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Originally Posted by BigB2k5
My opinion on these are they only work on older cars... If your car has bad grounds and all then yes it will help, but on a brand new car everything is good and clean so I dont think you will see an improve.
Take a few year old car where everything is not as clean and it will help bring it back to factory spec again... Until I see dynos of a NEW car with and without, (same car) then I would say it does nothing really... It may help if you have a big system but other then that no.. |
For anyone interested, i thought all this stuff about grounding was BS, afterall, I'm an Electrical Engineer.... If it was that cheap and easy to clean up an idle or get more power, facotries would have done it years ago. I certainly agree on older cars with potentially bad grounding wires, it could help.
So one day, i put my O'scope on my 92 Maxima SE... which the OEM ground wire still looks good. On the scope, using two channels, i looked at the difference between a ground on the engine, and the ground right at the battery. It's been a while, but if i remember right, there were a few milivolts difference (mV is .001V), and the difference was a little "shaky" i.e. noisy, it wasnt a straight DC difference of a few mv. So then leaving the probes on the exact same spots, I added a 4g wire between the battery and a different spot on the engine (different from where my probe was). The difference between the two probes was reduced almost in half. So I left the wire there... did it smooth out my idle? not noticebly. Does it seem quicker?? No. Now, granted the grounding "kits' you buy add like 5 ground wires between everything to everything, but oh well.... i just was bored one day and felt like playing. If I ever was considering buying a grounding kit, I wouldn't... I'd just build it, it'd probably be 50% cheaper. I do know that clean, level grounds are VERY VERY important for signals, especially low current signals, such as from an O2 sensor. The lower the currnet, and also in some respect, voltaqe, the easier it is for "noise" to be injected into the line. Which is why some headunits put out 4v (or even 6 or 8) preouts, so the gain on the amp can be turned down lower, so then the noise that the line does pick up, is smaller with respect to the signal. Of course this is the reason why balanced lines are soooo much better, just not all that many headunits/amps can do it. As for "a couple HP" I have seen a car do some runs sequentially, and each run the numbers would flucuate by something like 1 to 3 hp. So to really see, you'd probably need to do like.... 10 runs at least.... maybe the average of 5 runs without the grounding system, and 5 runs with it. |
Originally Posted by mp3car
For anyone interested, i thought all this stuff about grounding was BS, afterall, I'm an Electrical Engineer.... If it was that cheap and easy to clean up an idle or get more power, facotries would have done it years ago. I certainly agree on older cars with potentially bad grounding wires, it could help.
So one day, i put my O'scope on my 92 Maxima SE... which the OEM ground wire still looks good. On the scope, using two channels, i looked at the difference between a ground on the engine, and the ground right at the battery. It's been a while, but if i remember right, there were a few milivolts difference (mV is .001V), and the difference was a little "shaky" i.e. noisy, it wasnt a straight DC difference of a few mv. So then leaving the probes on the exact same spots, I added a 4g wire between the battery and a different spot on the engine (different from where my probe was). The difference between the two probes was reduced almost in half. So I left the wire there... did it smooth out my idle? not noticebly. Does it seem quicker?? No. Now, granted the grounding "kits' you buy add like 5 ground wires between everything to everything, but oh well.... i just was bored one day and felt like playing. If I ever was considering buying a grounding kit, I wouldn't... I'd just build it, it'd probably be 50% cheaper. I do know that clean, level grounds are VERY VERY important for signals, especially low current signals, such as from an O2 sensor. The lower the currnet, and also in some respect, voltaqe, the easier it is for "noise" to be injected into the line. Which is why some headunits put out 4v (or even 6 or 8) preouts, so the gain on the amp can be turned down lower, so then the noise that the line does pick up, is smaller with respect to the signal. Of course this is the reason why balanced lines are soooo much better, just not all that many headunits/amps can do it. As for "a couple HP" I have seen a car do some runs sequentially, and each run the numbers would flucuate by something like 1 to 3 hp. So to really see, you'd probably need to do like.... 10 runs at least.... maybe the average of 5 runs without the grounding system, and 5 runs with it. |
OHHHHH
If yo're talking about what i think you are, I've never heard anyone call it a voltage stabilize, but yes, those caps really can and do help/work. Those caps are really more of an instant "reserve" of power, and are mostly useful if you're listening to music that has a lot of "punchy" type bass, like most "normal" music is (instead of just pure bass tones like a lot of "bass cds" are). basically, the main purpose of those caps, without going into the formulas, what happens is when the bass "hits" it needs a lot of power/current... if the capacitor is there, it helps provide this sudden need of power. (I'm not implying it makes the system use less overall energy from the batter/alternator). Those capacitors charge and discharge very quickly. It is b/c their equivalent series resistance is very low. I have a 1F (f as in farad, pronounced like ferret, the animal, but with a "d" at the end instead of two t's) capacitor that I had in my system back when i used to have a system in a car (http://www.adamcantor.com). They have some caps now that are much larger, such as 10F and 20F, they utilize different materials to achieve this, I'm not sure how much better they really are than your standard "old style" electrolytic large caps of 1 or 2F... b/c it really also depends on their equivalent resistance, the lower it is, the quicker it can deliver the power needed, it is also best to put these capacitors closest to your amps. You can add them up by putting multiple ones in parallel, they directly add together, so if you had two 1F caps in parallel, you'd have the equivalent of a 2F cap. they do also serve to clean up the power, if your power has some noise on it in the form of small rapidly changing voltage levels (which most noise is), they can smooth it out. Capacitors are classically used in AC/DC power supplies, in the car, your battery helps smooth the power from your alternator, which actually makes AC, runs through a rectifier and regulator, and then to your battery. one spec i found on a cap used for audio systems has an ESR of < 0.00198 ohm at 120Hz (120Hz would basically mean they're charging it and discharging it at 120Hz, b/c once the cap is charged with DC, it's an open circuit) |
A cap is almost always for a big stereo system as noted.
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This cap is for the whole car's electrical system basically, not the stereo, it's basically trying to do the same thing for the whole car that a cap does for a stereo system.
I just ordered the sun voltage stabilizer and ground wires..hehe..coudn't resist, I do have an auto and if someone could tell me where/how to dyno in the Chicago suburbs I'd be willing to do a run before and after. |
If your stereo was having noise issue, then you have electical problems. I had an Optima red top, and was on the path to replacing my starter, alternator... The shop tested my battery and said it was bad.
It would pass at the auto parts store, but failed at the shop on their SnapOn and Interstate battery checker. On another occurance, my father didnt tighten down my ground. |
Believe it or not, a stereo capacitor will help the whole car. Works the same way the Voltage Stabilizer works, its just located in the trunk rather then under the hood. And NO factory grounds are not good, not even on a new car. The wire size used by the factory is no where near the size of the outgoing wires to start the car and run the car. Compared to old cars, new cars require a much better ground, as cars have advanced, name computer systems and other electrical components, it has meant that more power is needed for the electrical system. Most of these electrical upgrades are not going to result in gains on a dyno, but will help overall in the drivabillity of the car. I have worked as a profesional installer for 8 years, and I have seen alot, I mean alot!! of cars and the battery grounds on them. Manufactures do NOT put the money into the electrical systems in a car. If you want to help the car out alittle bit more, run a 4 guage wire from the alternator to the battery and re ground the car with a 4 guage wire. That alone will help the car.
Jason |
umm I will agree with you on the capacitor helping. That started my car when the battery was sick.
As far as 4 guage from the alternator... that may be a little overkill, 8 or 10 guage should work if you need it. Unless you have a 200 amp high output alternator. I can kinda see your point with the ground, but typically the engine is grounded to the car with a moderate piece of wire. How about replacing the battery with an Optma red top. (I had an engine fire, that cook my spark plug wires, and after it was put out I pressed unlock and the door opend and the dome light worked) My justification on calling overkill on your 4 guage wire, is in a 100 amp audio fuse there is a 2 mm wide piece of metal. I always questioned why I ran a 4 guage wire to a 2 mm fuse. However, I do know that thicker cable is better, and you are not going to have an amp on a 12 guage wire. Plus 4 is almost too thick to work with. |
Originally Posted by Kracker
umm I will agree with you on the capacitor helping. That started my car when the battery was sick.
As far as 4 guage from the alternator... that may be a little overkill, 8 or 10 guage should work if you need it. Unless you have a 200 amp high output alternator. I can kinda see your point with the ground, but typically the engine is grounded to the car with a moderate piece of wire. How about replacing the battery with an Optma red top. (I had an engine fire, that cook my spark plug wires, and after it was put out I pressed unlock and the door opend and the dome light worked) My justification on calling overkill on your 4 guage wire, is in a 100 amp audio fuse there is a 2 mm wide piece of metal. I always questioned why I ran a 4 guage wire to a 2 mm fuse. However, I do know that thicker cable is better, and you are not going to have an amp on a 12 guage wire. Plus 4 is almost too thick to work with. |
I don’t want to start a war... I’m just that annoying guy in the back ;)
... So why are all the electronics hooked up to the battery.. If it wanted the juice, do you think that the 120 amp alternator is the source or the 650 amp battery? In my feeble mind, the alternators job is to provide power to charge the battery. The battery is a regulator/capacitor/battery that is also a source of current, that’s main job is to start the car. As far as the fuse? Better conductor than Copper. I guess you are right that Silver is better than copper... 595 vs 630 mohm-cm^-1. But not that much better.. But the point was that the amount of current, 100amps in my case, would melt a 2mm piece of silver. So I don’t think that you need a 2 inch, if you flatten it out, piece of copper, to charge the crap battery in the car. Still 4 gauge is overkill. |
In regards to this hyper voltage regulator, is it really just a capacitor? If so, what size is it? 1 farad, 2 farad, 20 farads. I wonder what kind of capacitor size would be needed to have a significant positive effect on the car's electrical system?
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Originally Posted by Kracker
I don’t want to start a war... I’m just that annoying guy in the back ;)
... So why are all the electronics hooked up to the battery.. If it wanted the juice, do you think that the 120 amp alternator is the source or the 650 amp battery? In my feeble mind, the alternators job is to provide power to charge the battery. The battery is a regulator/capacitor/battery that is also a source of current, that’s main job is to start the car. As far as the fuse? Better conductor than Copper. I guess you are right that Silver is better than copper... 595 vs 630 mohm-cm^-1. But not that much better.. But the point was that the amount of current, 100amps in my case, would melt a 2mm piece of silver. So I don’t think that you need a 2 inch, if you flatten it out, piece of copper, to charge the crap battery in the car. Still 4 gauge is overkill. Jason |
You are right, I have installed amps in a total of 4 cars. I concede that you have more knowledge. (zero sarcasm, I really am taking your word for it... )
So with your waterhose / firehose example, where is the 2 mm water valve? ...or to appropriate scale. As for nickel... Perhaps I don’t know the properties that these fuse manufactures are looking for. I was looking for conductivity. I read where "Cu is second only to Ag in conductivity." Nickel - 146.199 1/mohm-cm - http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/nickel.html Copper - 595.8 1/mohm-cm - http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/copper.html Silver - 630.5 1/mohm-cm - http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/silver.html Gold - 446.4 1/mohm-cm - http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/gold.html In my Saturn, I ran 18 foot of 4 gauge to a power distribution block, where I ran 8 gauge to 2 350 watt Kenwood amps. And to show you how silly I am, I ran another 8 gauge to my 1 farad capacitor.. Thus it was not in series with the power. |
I was thinking about adding a voltage stabilizer because all of dome,interior,parking/blinker,license plate lights blink with and with out my subs and led lights connected. Hooking a voltmeter into the cigarette lighter and get voltages from 14.2V-15V.The dealer says battery and alternator test fine.
This is the thread I started with more info. https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/blinking-flickering-lights-762471/ |
Holy Ancient bump BATMAN!! 4 year old thread
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bump^
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Junk
Originally Posted by Sezniko
(Post 11770528)
I was thinking about adding a voltage stabilizer because all of dome,interior,parking/blinker,license plate lights blink with and with out my subs and led lights connected. Hooking a voltmeter into the cigarette lighter and get voltages from 14.2V-15V.The dealer says battery and alternator test fine.
This is the thread I started with more info. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762471 No power or gas mileage increases,and my stereo sounds the same.The only possible benefit could be a longer reserve capacity.Meaning you can leave you lights and stereo on longer with less battery drain. Here are some pictures of it installed. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...oghollow39.jpghttp://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...oghollow40.jpghttp://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...oghollow42.jpghttp://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...oghollow43.jpg If you open one up they look similar to this http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85..._dextervs1.jpg |
I remember reading about this here
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...ech/index.html I know there are more a couple people on the forums running these, i think its hard to tell to what extent it helps. If it doesn't cost too much i definitely don't see any harm in installing. |
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