Inaccurate

Agreed. The engine in our TL is extremely sensitive to timing. Meaning that if the timing drops, the power DROPS .

I would go as far to say that the timing has a much bigger effect on power than *if* the temp of the inducted air was cooler from this mod.

But, this is assuming that the higher timing does not cause knock.

As a side note (my editorial) - This mod prevents the hot water from heating up the TB. Normally, the heat from the TB will creep into the IAT sensor along the metal-to-metal contact points. The heat from the IAT sensor housing will creep into the electronic probe (poor design / cheaper).

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

along with not taking much for the ecu to reduce timing (which even a slight increase in IAT's can cause it too)

i think the biggest thing for us western US people, is that we need 93 octane gas




also as far as your side note, it does creep into the intake, BUT sometimes you need it to especially during winter thogh, when the engine is cold, and surgeing, but once it warms up enough, the surging goes away (and with the tb coolant hooked up, is alot better, but still does it some when cold)
i was having that issue this past winter , but ince it got warm enough outside, never surges (only seems to when it's colder then like 45 degrees or so)(basically the air is too dense for the idle air motor to control my motor, along with the lightweigt flywheel though, and no load from an automatic either; only happened once i swapped to a 6spd)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

resurrecting this thread from the graves...

OP how did the Crankcase bypass hold up ? been 3 years.....

type-s'er

can anyone tell me what the "cons" are to doing this? It has to effect something? I dont fully understand it, but I'm interested in it lol

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

The system runs coolant/water to the throttle body. This is for colder weather reasons I due believe. It gets everything up to temp faster. However, it also robs some power, because it's heating something that the colder it is the better it is, for performance. So especially in the summer time, doing the bypass will help with temps, which helps with timing, which reduces robbing of power.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ kinda yes

What this mod does type-s'er is doesnt flow 200+ degree coolant through your throttle body....because of this the air in the TB stay cooler and we want that because cooler air combust better than warmer air....

In the winter imagine freezing air entering your TB, it will make the butterfly sticky and hence your throttle would be stuck (similar as the gas pedal in the toyota's sticking couple years back)....to avoid this you WANT the HOT coolant through your TB in the winter months....

So if your in a place where winter gets crazy, just reverse the mod (10 minute job)

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The coolant doesn't have a real effect on the air coming in interms of heating it up as much as it heats up the intake air sensor making the car think is ingesting hotter air than it is resulting in the ecu pulling timing. It does keep the butterfly from getting stuck ( atleast that's the design ) in colder climates but the speed of the air going thru the TB is too fast for the for the hotter TB to impart any of that heat.

Very easy to do and to bring back to stock for winter.

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

i did this yesterday after skimming this thread. i think i might have thrown out the extra tubing, so i'll be rocking this all year long.

i'll report back if my car has a sticking throttle this winter...which i highly doubt but w/e

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It's 30 cents worth of 1/4 in hose, if you want to reverse it.

Bearcat94

I've run mine year-round for 2 or 3 winters. No issues.

Then again we have pretty mild winters. Measuable snow is minimal and rarely below freezing during the day. And the car is garaged over-night.

ymmv.

BukvaMan

well during winter i let the car warm up anyhow, so i dont see how it could stick at all. Unless it was really below zero or something

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i figured it would be 10 cents lol
it gets really cold here, but i maen i really doubt anything would happen
i still don't think it would stick below zero. if anything, it would only be condensation that would freeze, not like a huge sheet of ice in there or something.


anyway, i think my car drives much better after doing the bypass. i'm happy i did it

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ veggie...I would reverse it, if you are in a place which is prone to snow/heavy winters....

imagine freezing air coming in from your intake into your throttle body....it can make ur butterfly stick very easily....if your in texas/SOCAL/FL etc then you dont need to worry at all...

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Just a reminder, the crankcase pressure bypass outlined in this thread is only effective for the rear bank of cylinders. The front bank still dumps into the intake manifold. There's a fitting on the left side of the front valve cover that vents into the intake manifold which should get plumbed into the catch can/filter as well. If you're lazy, you can install a 90 degree brass fitting in the rear valve cover and daisy-chain the two together with -4AN hose.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ exactly what i wanted to know...

how is that working out ?

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

@swoosh

So far, so good. Ideally, you would cap the current outlet on the front valve cover and install a brass fitting the same size as the rear outlet (~3/8") and plumb that into the catch can if you have a second inlet. it's not that big of a deal though, just as long as the pressurized gasses have a way to escape in a place other than the intake manifold.

Inaccurate

Or you can do it the lightweight method - Cap the front and run an old-fashion Down-Draft tube. Yea, it's controversial....... but do you really expect anything else than controversial from me.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

@Inaccurate

Do you ever pop the yellow cap off of the front valve cover? Have you thought about running a dump tube off of that one as well?

I had considered just using a dump tube as well, but with having a F/I car and a nice garage floor/driveway I was afraid of the occasional drip.

My install:

Inaccurate

To date, I have not had a single drop of oil to land on my garage floor. I check the end of the tube regularly out of curiosity and I never see a drop hanging on the tube end. Perhaps the wind does a good job of blowing it clean.

Good idea about the tube on the front bank. When investigating to feasibility of doing a draft tube, I had blown thru the tubes to verify that air would flow from the tube on the front bank to the tube on the rear bank. So, I felt comfortable that the front bank would get adequate air circulation.

But, I see no harm in having tubes on both banks just to help that front bank to breath (get ride of water vapor, etc). Thanks for the suggestion.

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

chicago. it'll be below zero a lot up here in the winter, but i'll reverse it if it becomes an issue. last car was ETB as well and never had a problem.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Completed.
thanks to Swoosh

Inaccurate

In case anyone is interested, below are some links that discuss using a Down-Draft Tube or a Catch Can.

PCV vs Breather (click here)
Conclusion PCV valve is worthless (click here)
oil catch can or crankcase breather (click here)
Venting PCV and Oil contamination (click here)



If someone did want to use a Catch Can, below are links to some quality Catch Cans (Seperators)


MANN FIlters (click here)
Breather Separators (click here)

jpm3071

So the benefit to this mod is it decreases engine temperatures while stopping the spew of oil into the intake? When you say IATs, do you mean internal air temperatures?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Running coolant thru the TB heats up the intake air sensor and makes the ECU think the engine is ingesting hotter air that it is and pulls timing to protect the engine. IAT means intake air temp.

As far as the crankcase vent, I only did it because the cold air intake I bought to make my custom intake from didn't have an output for it. The mod keeps the intake charge cleaner.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

Ok after reading this thread, I decided to change up.

this was my set-up before with the oil separator.


I got a $10 filter from Advance Auto to cap the crank side, and capped the intake side.


Then removed the separator and capped them off.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

So inaccurate are you running a dump line for the front and the rear manifold ?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Think it's just the rear on his car.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone think boost is reversing the crankcase ventilation and pressurizing it? I am only vented on the side nearest to the firewall, the front bank is still stock.

jpm3071

Ahh I see. So since it affects the timing, would there be any difference in fuel economy?

Sorry for asking so many questions, its just something I've never learned before.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The only increase in gas mileage from this mod is due to you having to ask less from the car power wise. The cleaner intake charge might increase power by a very small amount but not change mileage.

Inaccurate

I have a down-draft tube on just the rear bank. The front bank is capped off. As bmeyer suggested above in Post #58, it would be a good idea to have a down-draft tube on the front bank also. However, I need to investigate the PCV valve to see if the valve will allow the blow-by to escape unimpeded thru the front bank outlet. If not, I would modify the PCV valve to allow the blow-by to escape unimpeded.




Regarding these breather filters as pictured above, I would keep a close eye on it in the following weeks. With the PCV being capped-off on the front bank, I would expect the filter to become saturated with oil mist and begin to drip oil from the filter media onto the engine.






Following the theme of this thread of keeping the intake cleaner and having a cooler running intake, I will introduce the topic of the EGR Delete. My EGR Delete is pictured above.

Contrary to the wide-spread notion (on the internet) that a person would have an increase in detonation if the EGR was removed, I have had no increase in detonation. As a reminder, I do have a very high quality knock monitor. I known exactly under which conditions my engine will detonation and to what degree. After the EGR Delete, I have noticed no change in my engine's detonation characteristics. Granted that I have only recently did the EGR Delete just a few days ago. But, I will update this thread if I do find more detonation as time (mileage) progresses.

In regards to the EGR Delete causing an drop in gas mileage, I will be able to say definitively after this week. However, after monitoring mileage for just one day, I feel confident to say that my gas mileage did not drop after the EGR Delete.

The EGR Delete will cause a perpetual Check Engine Light.

Below is a related link for your reading pleasure. One word of advice, I would always pay more attention to someone that "has been there and done that" than I would to someone citing theory with no real-world experience to back up that theory.

Copy and paste this link into your browser. Remove the red X before submitting. Acurazine blocks this link. So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=195314

As Paul [NVA-AV6] mentions in the above link, mid-range drivability is slightly increased. In regards to an increase in power, I will say that I for sure didn't lose any (cough, hint, cough). Especially at partial and mid throttle.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

I will. If that happens, I will simply put my oil separator back on. I usually get a good bit of oil after a month of driving. We'll see; thanks!

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

@Inaccurate

Have you ever tried building an EGR simulator to get rid of the perpetual CEL? I came across this diagram this morning, but haven't looked into it further. It's possible that you would need circuits with different values.
http://www.verboom.net/info/speedster/20070729/index.html

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

was just thinking about ditching the EGR. There you go again Inaccurate, motivating me to do more work! lol


btw- how much did it weigh? hahahaha

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

He built one for the airbags to get rid of the airbag light and keep the remaining airbags working.

Inaccurate

Thanks for the link bmeyer.

As mentioned in the last four paragraphs of the link (click here) that you provided, I might be better off with the ECU realizing that there is a complete EGR fault instead of trying to trick the ECU into thinking that the EGR was still operational.

With the ECU being aware the there is a complete EGR failure, the ECU can then set the air/fuel mixture and timing accordingly. Whereas if the ECU was tricked, there might be total chaos in regards to the air/fuel mixture and timing.

This is just my premise that I am sticking to. I was too lazy to conduct any logging to truly see what the ECU was thinking before and after the EGR Delete. I just bravely unplugged the wiring harness and put on the block-off plate and took a test drive. After seeing that the ECU did not go into limp mode and that the drivability was improved, I was pretty much sold on it (cough, weight reduction, cough). After verifying that detonation was not an issue and gas mileage was not severely impacted, this too cinched the deal.

Having the CEL doesn't bother me in the slightest. I already had a CEL due to the EVAP Delete (cough, weight reduction, cough) from several months ago.

The past few days since the EGR Delete have been a real treat for me. My emphasis these past few months has been increasing the low rpm grunt. The egr delete has significantly contributed to this goal. The automatic trans is even more eager to upshift at lower rpm's now.... thus allowing the engine to grunt more thru the gears. I can now more easily make the car grunt between 1500 to 2200 RPM between gear changes (not using sport shift) as I keep even or pull away from surrounding traffic. Hell, lately I have been engaging in red light "races" (whenever I sense a challenge on their part) with normal cars (not high HP sport cars) just by applying 1/3 throttle and leaving them far behind.

Thanks for the link all the same

Inaccurate

You know me toooo well

It is almost 2 Lbs.

The exact weight is 1.83 Lbs or
1 lbs 13.3 ozs.

jpm3071

Anyone know if this would pass inspection in NY?

vladkarnafel

iTrader: (7)

Ive searched and searched and only have came up onto the TSX TB coolant bypass mod. Does anyone know which hoses to bypass on the TL?
also... is it worth getting the ThermoBlock spacer kit for ultimate cool down mod??

link --- http://www.outlawengineering.com/hondajframe.html

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699978