Caliper Brackets for a DIY 6/4 Piston Big Brake Kit
 

While browsing the Tube of You watching Tavarish install a set of Grand Cherokee SRT8 calipers and rotors onto his Supra with the help of a Dremel and a bracket kit made by Eximious Custom Parts, I started to think about applying the same concept to my car - a 2008 Acura TL Type S. I should note, the UA7 Type S has some decent brakes from the factory. Many service techs I work with are astonished that a midsize-Acura came from the factory with Brembo 4 pots. While other members are wishing to one day get the Type S brakes for their base TL's, I'm doing the exact opposite. I should mention that I frequent local autocross events as often as I can, and even with having Hawk Performance HP+ Front / HPS 5.0 Rear Brake Pads paired with EBC Dimpled & Slotted Rotors and Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, the car doesn't stop as good as I want it to. (And yes, I'm running decent tires - Continental ExtremeContact Sport 255/45R17.) Maybe it's because I'm spoiled with driving so many high-performance cars as my day job. I see cars like the C6 Z06, Cayenne GTS, S63 AMG, and Challenger SRT8 come in with these MASSIVE calipers and rotors and I think to myself, "Why can't we have that on our cars?" As of late, I have began thinking of converting a BBK from another vehicle to adapt to the 3G TL.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...f7d767ff6d.jpg

I emailed Brian Hasty from Fastbrakes, a local company that happens to be one of the few to manufacture a big brake kit (6/4 Piston) for our cars, to see what his thoughts were on doing such a conversion:

it's very simple math.
you have to match the brake master cylinder with the pistons surface area.

it's VERY likely, YOu wont stop any shorter DUE to the mismatch of master cylinder and piston surface area if you move to a different caliper...

ADDITIONALLY; BBK's are more for heat dissipation than stopping distances....


Do you think Brian is LYING to you? :rofl:

we have done it with the RL brakes... and guess what, they DONT stop any shorter.

Agreed. That said, if the OP is autocrossing the car on a regular basis, in theory at least, he can drive it hard enough to induce fade on the stock Brembos, and if that's true, then the big brake kit may well pay dividends.

well, ONE has to pay to play, Doesnt he...

if not willing to spend on proper brakes....:run:

I knew I would get some flak in regards to introducing this.... Anyhow, I simply want bigger brakes in order to help with BOTH heat dissipation and stopping distance, since brake fade is the bane of my existence. Floating 2-piece rotors would help the situation slightly, but having been quoted $1,100 from a separate company for a whole set was pretty steep. I was already planning on swapping out the brake booster and the master cylinder according to what brakes I would get; I thought that was a given. Either way, it won't be an easy job. I know for a FACT Brian knows what he's talking about, and that his kits are worth every penny since it's more or less a bolt-on ordeal. I'm just trying to keep as much green in my pockets as possible, hence why I pose the question.

Hmmm, let's just say I'm highly skeptical of your claim stopping distance will be improved with a big brake kit. The fact is, even the puny little stock calipers on the base Automatic models are robust enough to keep the tires at the point of incipient skid/lockup for a stop or three, and increasing stopping power to the brakes will in no way change how well a tire grips the road.

...As you should be skeptical. I'm just a 21-year old kid that's got money from Mommy and Daddy to throw down on his 11-year old car. What little knowledge I retain can thereby make my claims invalid in relation to anyone's opposing conclusions. That being said, you're most likely correct in this case. The ABS system and the grip from the tires will put a limit on HOW my car is able to stop, hence why it WILL NOT improve my stopping distance. So, I might not get the better initial stopping distance that I desire, but I WOULD get better braking consistency, which would help me stop better in relation to a whole track day versus just one session.

I'm not trying to come off as a cocky little (insert word here). I just want to provide a stopping ground (no pun intended) for others that are looking into doing the same thing as I am. Criticism is what builds the world, right?

Yes, there is no question if you spend some time on the track, the big brake kit will pay huge dividends in the form of fade resistance.

you're not coming off cocky at all....Just there are kits available with the R&D behind them.
Why reinvent the wheel?

I got some good news! I sent an email to Eximious Custom Parts seeing if they would be cool with making custom BBK brackets for the TL. Sure enough, they're interested! Since I will have the first TL they've ever worked on, I will have to send in a front and rear spindle from my car so they can mock up the design of the adapter in CAD. (Thank goodness I got them off a wrecked '06 Base model with the Sport package today for $80!)

Overall, I can't wait for the new brakes! With the new 18x9.5 wheels on 275-section tires, my wheel wells will look exactly how I wanted them from day one. I also can't wait to see so many other AZ members rocking the kit! Just a head up, this kit will ONLY be for the Type S or the cars with the optional Sport package. Then again, spindles aren't that expensive....

Sport Package is just another way of saying 6-Speed manual. In the 2004-2006 TLs, all 6MT models were Sport Package, and vice versa. :)

Funny you mention this. I watched the same video and was interested in the exact same thing. I have a base but will be grabbing a type s manual within the next 12-15 month to continue my supercharged project. I like that the type s has Brembo but the TL is a heavy car. 12-inch rotors can only take you so far. heck, even the type R has 13.8inch rotors up front. After watching that video, I spent 2 days researching front and back BBK upgrades where we would use other calipers from other cars. I've also gone to Eximus' facebook page and commented and they said they wouldn't mind working on a bracket. I pretty much stopped my research there as I learned about master cylinder to caliper sizes. Went on to look at adding a Brembo for the rear and the furthest I got was that the closest caliper to fit would be the 04-07 STI rear Brembo calipers. Gave up after looking on information for rotors that would be able to keep our parking brake working. Lets us know how the journey goes. I am definitely interested in the outcome

If someone is going to make a retrofit kit, then the most practical calipers to use would be the new Civic Type-R calipers.
Unfortunately, custom rotors would be needed as the Type-R wheels have a larger PCD.

For reference, here are the Racing Brake front rotors on my car:

http://www.brockwayengineering.com/pics/rb_rotor.jpg

Racing Brake website: http://www.racingbrake.com/ProductDe...oductCode=2108

Have you checked StopTech to see if they have big brake kits for TLs?

you have to factor in the master cylinder and the amount of fluid in the system. Folks tried RL calipers on the 4G TL and gained braking distance since the master cylinder couldn't keep up with the larger calipers. There's a reason tons of R&D go into products sold to make sure they are safe.

UPDATE: The spindles have been scanned by Eximious Custom Parts and I am now ready to choose the brakes that I want. After looking around for the best "bang for the buck" calipers, I have settled on the Brembos that come on the new Kia Stinger GT. First off, the piston size difference between the stock TL-S and the SGT is MASSIVE! They absolutely shrink the piston size on both the STi and Type R Brembos, too. In addition, I can get a used front and rear caliper set off of one of the members on the Stinger Forum for just $700! The only downside is that I will have to match up a different master cylinder and brake booster in order to accommodate the difference, but that shouldn't be too much of a roadblock as I already anticipated on that. The rotor sizes that will fit the calipers are 350x30mm and 340x20mm, a BIG difference from the stock 310x25mm and 282x9mm rotors. While plenty of companies offer rotors in that size, not many companies offer the brake hats that will fit my needs. With the bolt circle at 5x4.5 and the center register at 2.53, the market is already stretched thinner than our American rivals. It seems that it only gets more challenging when I try telling these sales reps that I want to keep the stock parking brake functionality, as well. I have emailed both Stoptech and Wilwood so far to see if they will make me hats around those specifications. If not, I'm going to have to look high and low for a small shop that will be willing to make me one-off custom brake hats.

Anyways, just figured that I'd let you guys in on what's going on to show you that I'm not joking around. If everything continues to go to plan, the finalized kit will cost less than $2,500 and have the braking to match most of the modern sports sedan offerings of today. If there's any criticism of what's going on so far, I'd love to hear it! After all, this kit won't be available just to me.

This is great news. Glad everything has been moving along for you on this. Hopefully finding a master cylinder and brake booster that can fit the application isn't such a hassle. Looking at previous threads of other's that have been looking to modify the rear for a BBK, the main issue was always keeping the stock parking brake functional. definitely keep us posted! Looking forward to progress on this.

Glad to hear you are overcoming those challenges and working on a solution! Have you contacted fastbrakes.com to see if they can help? They have lots of acura/honda rotors and might have the one to work for you!

ya know, stop tech and rotora brakes have already done the R&D :whistle:
with the rotora's stopping quicker than the stoptech BBKs

well this is exciting.

Any updates ?

I only have a few updates. Sorry that I've been away from AZ for so long. Things have been hectic lately with trading my TL-S 5AT for a cleaner one, having to move to a different location, and logging over 80 hours a week at work.

Coleman Racing will be the ones making the one-off rotors. Recommended to them by Wilwood reps themselves, they can basically make any rotor you want. Only downside is, I put my order in on June 2 and they told me that I'd be back-logged for a few months since they have many orders to fulfill. Sort of makes me ticked off since ECP needs the rotors to even make the brackets. Because of that, I've been at a standstill. Additionally, despite the fact that Wilwood wasn't able to make me rotors, they were able to provide me with a piston-matching Remote Tandem Master Cylinder Kit.

Really, the only things left to figure out is the brake booster situation and how I am going to maintain ABS. I understand that companies like Fastbrakes, Stoptech, and Rotara already have developed an entire braking solution out there that's track-proven. However, I like having the feeling of fulfillment when I accomplish something for others. After my work is done, someone will be able to do a REAL BBK upgrade to their ride for less than $2,500 with all bases covered. The Infiniti G35's have a massive aftermarket that was started by independent tuners that wanted to find budget solutions. I would like to do the same for such an underrated vehicle.

In conclusion, it'll be a while before everything is buttoned up and ready to go. I'm hoping to have it all done by October when the cool Arizona weather hits. I REALLY hate having to wait that long, especially since I've had to put on cheap rotors and pads in the meantime (to which their performance is total @&%$). When the rotors are done, things will move MUCH quicker.

+1 @JSeriesJay ?

$2100 for Big brake calipers, rotors and pads is a good deal for safety.

But if we can build an @acurazine homebrew kit, it will be that much more special.

How much did Coleman racing charge for the rotors?

Pics of the new, cleaner ride?

Awesome update man. Will definitely keep an eye on this thread. I stopped by the Facebook page of ECP and saw their 3D scan of the front and rear spindles you sent. As far as everything goes, this is definitely unique so patience is key. Sucks the rotor company is backlogged but it'll be worth it in the end. I will definitely be grabbing a set for my supercharger set up. So you're choosing the stinger front and rear calipers for sure? Also for the brake booster situation, I can ask a guy that's running massive brakes on his odyssey and get back to ya
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...ef4560fa20.jpg

Agreed. I was just looking at the fastbrakes kit and it totaled out to 3,115 USD for the front 13.6inch and rear 12.2 inch which isn't bad but the cheaper the better. And like he states, if one can be brewed here for cheaper, more power to us

^
Hey that’s Bisimotos Odyssey!

Same gen odyssey but that's not bisi. His is more of a brown color and has a large intercooler up front. The owner of this one is based in Florida. Goes by the name Jserieshonda on instagram

Those big brakes command envy.

Why; lots of money for zero improvement in stopping power; I don't get it.

Big brakes isn't much about stopping power as it is being able to take repeated breaking without brake fade and high heat

And how many on this forum, regardless of whether they have OEM Honda brakes, or the Brembo brakes of the 6MT and Type-S models, has ever, even once, experienced significant brake fade on a 3G TL? Sorry, all that money and effort for fade resistance? Honestly, unless the car is a gutted track rat, I really don't see the point.

Perhaps part of the answer, for the individuals above, can be explained on the link below: :) :shrug:

'Intrinsic motivation refers to behavior that is driven by internal rewards. In other words, the motivation to engage in a behavior arises from within the individual because it is naturally satisfying to you.'

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...vation-2795385

No one because no one tracks this car except a very few and the few that do, such as the op, know the deal. Check out on YouTube the 700hp tl and then come bqkc and tell me why was the reason Matt farrah cut the run short..

You missed the point entirely. My argument is that "big brakes do not command envy"; if anything they command scorn directed toward anybody with such brakes who doesn't track their TLs (meaning 99.9% of this board).

And that shows in the lack of options. Most make their tl look pretty and that's about it. Those of us that want a little more are here discussing options.

@gerzand ’s TL-S did when the Gridlife guy drove his car at the track on YouTube.

I will be tracking my car at PIR. Don’t want to pull into the pits after three laps.

Chill out @horseshoez .