Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

The fact of the matter is that the E-Shift Pro Cats have consistently made about 20whp and 15 ft lbs of tq on most N/A TL's. On S/Ced TL it has been more like 13-15 whp on average and about 8-10 ft lbs of tq. However, some have seen more whp with the cats even with S/C.

People install the Comptech catback exhaust and it is about $1000, and you will see about 8-10whp if you are S/Ced, and that seems to be worth the $1,000 so I can't see how the $1100 for the cats which net more hp and tq would be an issue.

We get it. You don't like them. Call up E-Shift and tell them and if you have an issue with your cats. They have said that the cats are warrantied by Metal Cat for a few years and their craftsmanship even longer. The fact is too there are 2-3 people who have had an issue (and it has been an issue with one of the three cats I believe in 1-2 of the cases) and all of them were running S/Cers (with a very rich A/F ratio) and some sort of water, methanol, or alcohol injection (which can destroy cats).

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

Minority, I think not. My #'s are on par with everyone here. My original was 283 SAE. After the Procats it was 304 SAE. This was with the VSA on for both runs. Now with the VSA off, I am at 316 SAE. All on the same dyno. I believe SAE takes weather into consideration, so I don't see that as a factor. But these were made around the same time of year.

I believe you and I are the only ones with before and after dynos with the s/c and the procats. I can only tell people what my experiences are. They are dyno proven.

bklynpanman

Right on cue Josh.. i knew you were going to come defend the product.. you have to run a business right? I think this guy can make a better informed decision if he hears our personal experiences with the pro cats. The fact of the matter is, it's a crap shoot. a nice 1200 $ gamble if you may. #'s aren't consistent. you don't know what you're going to get.

bklynpanman

12 hp with VSA off?? I think you just saved this guy 1200$

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

bklynpanman are there any products for the TL that you do like? You always seem to bash everything.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

DYNO PROVEN BUDDY! Was the VSA off on all you runs? That was why my #'s were always lower than yours. Then I turn off the VSA and my #'s are are right in the neighborhood of everyone else.

againstallodds1

Me and Dave (brklynpanman) had the procats on from the very beginning, since they first came out. Mine are all bad also. The inside of the cats deteriated and eventually caused it to throw codes. So IMHO they arent worth the money.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

That was the only difference in my two runs. You have a better explaination?

againstallodds1

Yup, mine started with a rattle also.

Black_05_TL_6SP

Mine have been on as well since the first came out. No issues with them at all. Given mine is not S/C, but I have had no problems. It sounds more like a problem with the car running rich and burning the cats out then it does with the cats being a bad product.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I have had mine just as long. They actually started to rattle in September. The rattle comes and goes. I haven't thrown any codes yet. I thought yours was from the NOS. Anyway, I still make good power. I showed an increse of 21 whp and 16 ft/lbs on the dyno with these. With my experience with these its worth it.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I have had my ProCats on since the first they came out. I believe I was the very first "off site" install a matter of fact. I drive my car everywhere and all the time....highway and city both....never had a problem. They have been on since the beginning of the product...so I would say that the people that have had them go out.....it is due to the cars improper tune....not the ProCats. Besides...I have heard Josh say SEVERAL times now that they are warranteed if it was a bad cat or workmanship....so if its a bad cat...why dont you just take them up on their warrantee? Or have you tried this already and got denied due to bad tune and now are bitter. That might explain why the bashing anyway....otherwise....it seems to me to be just somebody that is overly sore about a bad tune, which in fact...is not the fault of the Procats whatsoever. ALL the problems I have seem when these cats go bad have been #1 - Running overly rich or #2 - NOS or Meth was used in some sort or fashion. I dont see how you can take a bad tuned engine...toss meth into it or NOS....then have parts go bad...and wonder why? It just doesnt make good logic to me? It wasnt running right to begin with...then one adds insult to injury by tossing meth or NOS at it and wonders why parts fail.

mmcv6

I myself coming from a turbo eclipse 99 with built motor, and a 8 injector setup can tell you tuning is very important. I remember the first time I started my car after my 8 injector setup the car would not run correct, took alot of tuning on my end with the labtop to get it to run "ok" on the street. Still on the rich side but my "stock" cat went also. Soon after I brought it to a dyno/tune with a wideband and we got it tuned "alot" better then I could thats for sure... For the next 2+ years no problems with the cat again.
I believe as we know it the acm is tuned on the rich side since each car is different. I plan to put the supercharger on this week or next, get a dyno with wideband done check it to see how rich I am. Then let hondata play with my car and reflash to tune it better. Then get a dyno with wideband again to make sure we are ok. If for some reason I could not get hondata I know of two 04 accord v6 who have the e-manage on and took of the acm. The surge went away, runs alot better, not so rich anymore, gained like 30hp/tq....hmmmm..... and one has the pro cats since it came out...
I belive ones you introduce nos/nitrous/meth etc its starts to mess up the cats etc...
well...

subinf

MB - how long have you had the supercharger on the TL? I can't remember when your install date was.

bklynpanman

the point of my posts was about the minimal gains... we all know the tune probably kills the cats. if you know the tune kills the cats, it might be something to think about while getting ready to dish out 1200$.. that's besides the point. the point is in my experience, it was NOT worth it. i am not bitter.. i think people who are thinking about buying this should be entitled to real world experiences..

bklynpanman

the point of my posts was about the minimal gains... we all know the tune probably kills the cats. if you know the tune kills the cats, it might be something to think about while getting ready to dish out 1200$.. that's besides the point. the point is in my experience, it was NOT worth it. i am not bitter.. i think people who are thinking about buying this benefit from our experiences

bklynpanman

Supercharger.. done.. proven gains.. consistent gains..

03TL_S

FYI)))))))) will be recieving the charger next week or so....

is it worth the aftermarket crank pulley to accompany the s/c?

bklynpanman

i am running the lightweight crank pulley.. don't have dyno #'s to show gains. with this mod i notice a bit of a gain. rpm's rise faster.. decent price too..

Nitrotiger

Your full of crap when Ryan ran his S/C car with no pro cats he ran 101. i ran 105 with pro cats so if it 11whp gain for you then i will take 4 mile hour. What did you ever run not to mention you can not eun metanol with them. even your stock cats will fail using metanol injection. You should know what your talking about before you bash this awesome product

Nitrotiger

My man paul also ran metanol injection are starting to see the picture here guy's. My pro cats worked great on my car for over 10k and then worked awesome on my S/C then i put metanol and in 1 week one of my cats started to rattle. So i know it was the metanol. The fact of the matter is no metanol should be used with any cat it will fail in time. as well as any stock cat!!! You also ran nitrous through them come on tell the whole truth

Nitrotiger

Also you ran Nitrous through them come on tell the whole truth

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I would, for the price. Like bklynpanman said, I noticed the RPM's rise a little bit faster.

Black_05_TL_6SP

Yes, the truth must come out!!! Those that have used them in the correct manner have had no problems. As Nitro stated, using them with the methanol and/or N2O, you will kill them quickly.

This is why we need some kind of liquid to air intercooler for the charger!!! MB, you got the radiator made, why not tackle this project as well?? j/k but seriously, be need an intercooler!!

BTW, its not just Josh that backs these, I think the majority of the people that are running them, would swear by them. Those that have had problem, its due to negligence on their behalf.

This is a product worth the $1200 or how ever much they are now. There are proven gains all the way across the board. And with a properly tuned S/C car, they should hold up just fine. The free flowing exhaust is only going to help a forced induction car.

Would I buy this product again, hell yes!! I am waiting for the set to come out for the MDX so I can put them on my wifes truck. They are worth it just for the fuel economy.

Jason
Jason

ACCURATEin

Good to see more members showing interest in the TL modification domain.

In my experience back in September, there was a rattle under my hood one morning when I cranked the baby up. I diagnosed it as possibly being the pieces of catalyst rattling around in the canister. Loaded the TL onto a rollback and followed its first and only journey via a tow truck to the Acura dealership. Turned out it was in fact the deterioration of the OEM cats. Called Eshift and then Excelerate to locate a set of Procats. He was able to get them here quickly in time for me to make it to ATL for Nopi Nationals were I met up with dan.....k.

Something else cool happened while I was there and we'll all find out in the next couple months at the newstand.

Since then the car has been running fine...no CELs or rattles. We'll see how long the Procats hold up. I feel good about the warranty, so maybe i'll take that up if the procats do in fact deteriorate.

I tend to stay out of boost as much as possible due to this deterioration dilemna...sometimes I can't help it because it sounds so menacing when the gears in the blower starting spinning.

Also, you will want to customize a CAI for your supercharger. I was the first to do this and about 75% of the others have done so and ALL loved the results.

Amen brothers! TL Nation.

bklynpanman

chill dude.. i'm talking about the gains here.. for me? not worth the 1200.. how can you argue this point.. 7 pounds of torque?? give me a break.. i wasn't the only one surprised about the minimal gains. mike had predicted i would get about at least 330 hp with these things on.. i remember... you were there.. you were trying to make me feel better about my purchase. i'm sure if i told you that these are the #'s you were going to get, you wouldn't buy them. you don't know the minimal gains you had with the s/c cause you had them on before you installed the s/c. for those of you who are in need of that extra 4mph than hey... do you what you please. i'm just stating facts, and my experience. can't argue that one.. now the methanol.. you may be right.. the 8 times i sprayed could have helped them deteriorate. you can never know for sure. the gains speak for themselves and the facts do too. People deserve to know what we are all experiencing with these cats.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Hmm......lots of people's praise that have used them properly vs a few people that have not used the properly that resulted in failure --->You decide?

What I do know is that SEVERAL people have come here to tell you of the postitive experiences they have encountered when they used them properly and there has been ONE person on here telling you they are not worth it over and over (that seems to be stuffing that fact down your neck at this point)---Again....look at all the information out there and decided for yourself. Personally...I have used them and think they are the bomb. I have had mine on there for a long time and they work just fine....BUT....I also have not sprayed NOS or Meth at em either....which in my opinion...is all the difference here. My car is also running within the expected ARR's for the most part too....which is also important.

Someone asked how long I have been boosted....I would say about three months now? Just guessing....so I have not been boosted the whole time either. Do I expect them to go out...nope...like I said...car is running within expected AFR's for the most part....even at WOT. Hopefully if it keeps it up...I should be in good shape. BUT...as mentioned....I DO believe that running a properly designed custom CAI setup with the supercharger is also crutial to this mix as well vs. the stock comptech airbox setup.

Now...when I was NA and installed these ProCats....I did a before and after test of the numbers that are posted on here somewhere if you search my post history...mine gained around 20HP if I recall?

bklynpanman

spraying water/methanol a handful of times is not using them properly? get out of here. my a/f ratio is towards the leaner end too. i'm around 12.5:1 not rich. i ran rich for a few months about a year ago when i first got the pro-cats. My point is not the longevity. We will have to wait and see to get a more definitive answer on that one. Give it some time. My main point is the overall experience i had with the minimal gains. You personally don't know what they add because you had them on there before your s/c. If you were supercharged.. THEN added the cats, you might be singing my song. whatever the case.. just lay out the facts and stop the bashing. gains .. longevity.. price..

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I saw no bashing there....just the opposite....laying out the facts? Why cant you just let this guy make his decision....

And yes.....I had em on before I was supercharged....I think I stated that didnt I? Heck...who knows....may even have helped the matter? Broken in under normal conditions before it got blasted with the power...who knows? Have no idea....

Anyway...I have stated my experiences already here...no more to say really....therefore I am gonna stop here. All I am saying to the guy is this...make your own choice based on the pool of knowledge here...not any one person...including myself! I can honestly say...there are pluses and minuses to EVERYTHING you modify....and EVERYBODY has a different opinion therein. At some point...you just have to look at all the info out there and make your own choice....which in fact...is what I believe PanMan is telling you as well. Nuff said....hope your purchases go well!!

bklynpanman

Nitrotiger

The problem is the panman is never happy always looking of the bad things of products. Goodluck bro i leave ya alone for now!!!

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Not to be rude, but you added every single possible mod you could think of to your car. You sprayed methanol, nitrous, and from what people on the forums said you blew your motor. Now maybe the last part isn't true. ... I don't know... but the first two are true b/c I saw them in person and those two contributed to the decline of the cats.

And bklynpanman is the only other member that I know of with "issues" with the cats and he ran rich with the S/C for a while and he also sprayed something.

And what I really don't get is that E-Shift is very willing to warranty this product in every aspect. It's possible that they didn't want to warranty your set or againstallodds (his I could definitely see why not) but I don't know. I never knew you were upset with the cats until recently when you started chiming in on every thread related to the cats in a negative manner.

And BTW I support products I sell. You are in business with your family. When ppl bash products that you sell do you just let it happen? I'm sure you defend the product b/c you believe in it.

bklynpanman

You don't know what you're talkin about Marc.. How long did you keep the S/C in your car? you weren't happy huh.. looking at the bad things.... i had an issue with the gains with the cats.. that's it.. i have the crank pully.. CAI.. exhuast, koni's.. ronjon body kit.. etc... .couldn't be happier! we are all entitled to be unhappy with a given product every now and then... i know YOU understand.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

And his Avatar still shows a supercharged TL? Get that EVO Pic up there man!! Sounds like you have a good start on it already dont you!

Nitrotiger

Ya i am working on getting a pic up but my computer crashed and i lost a lot of recent pics

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Send me a link when you get em posted somewhere....EVO's are the bomb! I really wanted one of those MR's.