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Not sure why you would want to keep them in for a clutch change but I replaced both my axles and it was a fairly easy job. That intermediate shaft was the toughest part
No. Not particularly. Have you changed a clutch before?
Ill bet your TL I can replace it without removing them.
I'm intrigued as to what ultimately you find doable.
For grins/giggles, I went through the “Brotha” technique video and unfortunately they were 'big' on the Hennessy and 'small' on the details as to whether or not the axle(s) were removed.
Saving4aTL, documentation here in your thread will be known as the 'Ukrainian / Brotha hybrid' since we really don't know until you find out in doing it.
I'm intrigued as to what ultimately you find doable.
For grins/giggles, I went through the “Brotha” technique video and unfortunately they were 'big' on the Hennessy and 'small' on the details as to whether or not the axle(s) were removed.
Saving4aTL, documentation here in your thread will be known as the 'Ukrainian / Brotha hybrid' since we really don't know until you find out in doing it.
Half of that video was them driving to and from the liquor store. Then suddenly the tranny is off the engine.
Im going to attempt to do the change without removal of the axles. I have to finish removing the Jpipe from the 3rd cat.(testpipe), and unbolt the intermediate shaft from the engine.
I’m going to try to ‘shimmy’ the transmission off of the engine. In order to do that I’ve got to fully remove the front engine mount. Is it necessary to do this?
Could I just heave it off with another person?
Manual tranny in NSX is 110lbs. Shouldn’t be an issue to remove.
Must I remove the front mount to loosen the tranny?
What is the best way to get the tranny loose from the engine block?
Last edited by Acura TL Builder; 05-23-2019 at 01:48 PM.
Half of that video was them driving to and from the liquor store. Then suddenly the tranny is off the engine.
Im going to attempt to do the change without removal of the axles. I have to finish removing the Jpipe from the 3rd cat.(testpipe), and unbolt the intermediate shaft from the engine.
I’m going to try to ‘shimmy’ the transmission off of the engine. In order to do that I’ve got to fully remove the front engine mount. Is it necessary to do this?
Could I just heave it off with another person?
Must I remove the front mount to loosen the tranny?
What is the best way to get the tranny loose from the engine block?
In the Helms, for my CL, they illustrate dropping the 'front beam' / subframe for transmission removal.
To ultimately drop the front beam / subframe, the helms states to 'Remove the front engine lock damper bracket bolts (A) and front engine mount nut (B).'
Therefore, the front engine mount, in mass, stays with the front beam / subframe as it is dropped.
Then the helms goes on to drop the front beam / subframe.
The next step AFTER the front beam / subframe has been dropped, the helms states to 'Remove the front engine mount bracket.' As a result, I'm deducing that the front engine mount bracket bolts may be involved, somehow, or mounted in the clutch case. Therefore, you may need to remove the front engine mount bracket and bolts to free the transmission. I can't see this area, at all on my car, to clearly ascertain because the S/C'er input shaft is blocking the view. I believe one of the front engine mount bracket flange bolts mounts into the clutch case. Look at the post below:
Originally Posted by mattcl-s
My mechanic called just a little bit ago and what he told me had me by surprise, so apparently the teeth on the new flywheel were just a hair longer than the original one so what the noise was the teeth brushing up against a front engine mount bolt? and put a washer around the bolt so it wouldn't hit the flywheel. He said the flywheel was fine, but I am not very knowledgeable when it comes down to it something I was not expecting. I guess the flywheel is good but I don't how after the teeth hitting the bolt find out when I go pick it up later
I'd remove the intermediate shaft, it will make it easier when you go to put the new one back together as it's easier to manipulate that object back into the transmission instead of moving a heavy transmission to fit onto that. a little more time, but a lot less headache /possible grief if you tear a seal trying to get the new transmission back on.
I'm gonna guess it needs a proper splitting with a crowbar placed in the right spot. look for thick pieces of aluminum on both sides....btw...it may not be supported enough by the jack and it could sink a bit once you get it off...the friction caused by not being supported evenly on both side is probably what you're fighting.
I'd remove the intermediate shaft, it will make it easier when you go to put the new one back together as it's easier to manipulate that object back into the transmission instead of moving a heavy transmission to fit onto that. a little more time, but a lot less headache /possible grief if you tear a seal trying to get the new transmission back on.
I'm gonna guess it needs a proper splitting with a crowbar placed in the right spot. look for thick pieces of aluminum on both sides....btw...it may not be supported enough by the jack and it could sink a bit once you get it off...the friction caused by not being supported evenly on both side is probably what you're fighting.
Removed the ATLP J-Pipe, not the intermediate shaft is ready to come off. I popped the remaining Exhaust pipe with a tire prop. Easy access to the shaft. Start by removing the bracket that holds the rear pre-cat in place. Heres what the rear of the engine should look like with the x3 bolts of the black intermediate shaft heatshield should look like. Then remove the x3 bolts that hold the internediate shaft in place. The top bolt will be tricky. Use a a wrench with a smaller handle. The intermediate shaft has no clip on the spline, so removal is easy, just pull at the base at the tranny. But do not pull on the axle itself, it may ruin it. My pointer shows a sneaky bolt that goes from the rear of the engine into the tranny. Pointer points at the same bolt in the anterior part of the engine. This bolt goes from engine to tranny. To get to this bolt you must remove the part of the front mount that goes from the front mount to the engine. There are a total of x5 bolts to remove this bracket. Here is the intermediate shaft bolt pattern. It is connected to the passenger axle. The driver side axle has a clip that must be taken out with care. you don't want this breaking inside the trannys differential. If you apply pressure to remove the axle at the base of the tranny and it doesn't go, try turning it a hair and keep trying until it pops. Passenger side axle removed. remove the clutch line with a 10 socket and move the line out of the way. You don't want it breaking when you move the tranny out of the way. Remove these two bolts to get the wiring off and out of the way of tranny. Use a smaller flathead screwdriver to gently remove the two clips. Clutch line out of the way. Tranny is ready to be removed. Separation never felt so good. The tranny does not weigh much. One person can Easily remove it. comes off like butter. Make sure to place a jack of some sort under the tranny for the first inch or so. You will then have the spline rod holding on the engine, and the other end resting safely on the subfame. Move the tranny out of the way! I will jimmy it a bit more, but there is plenty of room for the job. Harbor Freight has Torx sockets for cheap. you will need a set to remove the pressure plate. Use size E16
I tried removing the tranny, but it won’t budge. Perhaps that is because of the axles
still being attached..
Originally Posted by Saving4aTL
No. Not particularly. Have you changed a clutch before?
Ill bet your TL I can replace it without removing them.
Originally Posted by Saving4aTL
Passenger side axle removed.
Half shaft, intermediate shaft, drive shaft...I don't care what you call it, tranny isn't coming out
without removing what it sends power to the wheels to that is attached to it.
Pointer points at the same bolt in the anterior part of the engine. This bolt goes from engine to tranny. To get to this bolt you must remove the part of the front mount that goes from the front mount to the engine. There are a total of x5 bolts to remove this bracket.
Nice! So you found out that the front engine mount bracket was covering and/or obstructing a hidden bolt that mounts 'from engine to tranny'??
Therefore, NO actual front engine mount bracket flange bolts enter the clutch case! Good job! that's the detail we need.
Originally Posted by Saving4aTL
Move the tranny out of the way! I will jimmy it a bit more, but there is plenty of room for the job.
Nice! So you found out that the front engine mount bracket was covering and/or obstructing a hidden bolt that mounts 'from engine to tranny'??
Therefore, NO actual front engine mount bracket flange bolts enter the clutch case! Good job! that's the detail we need.
Congratulations!
Two of front mount flange bolts bolt into the tranny, the other two bolts bolt onto the engine. Yes, you must remove the front mount flange to access that bolt. Afterwhich the tranny slides right out.
Two of front mount flange bolts bolt into the tranny, the other two bolts bolt onto the engine. Yes, you must remove the front mount flange to access that bolt. Afterwhich the tranny slides right out.
LOL!
So I was partially correct about the flange bolts entering the clutch case!?!
Thanks for the validation.
Now anyone wanting to attempt this, up to the point you've taken it, has a guide in doing it.
The next crucial steps working in that limited space, when you get there will be:
1) Holding the flywheel to enable crisscross torqueing of the flywheel bolts (87lbf-ft?) Maybe add some Blue Loctite for safety?
2) Centering clutch disc with alignment tool while star/crisscross torqueing of pressure plate bolts (19lbf-ft?)
Not sure if vatozone has the 'ring gear holder' 07LAB-PV00100; 07924-PD20003. You may have to improvise.
The next crucial steps working in that limited space, when you get there will be:
1) Holding the flywheel to enable crisscross torqueing of the flywheel bolts (87lbf-ft?) Maybe add some Blue Loctite for safety?
2) Centering clutch disc with alignment tool while star/crisscross torqueing of pressure plate bolts (19lbf-ft?)
Not sure if vatozone has the 'ring gear holder' 07LAB-PV00100; 07924-PD20003. You may have to improvise.
Zeta, Thank you for the torque specs.
Could I use orange loctite? I have a stick left over from marine the Comptech Supercharger.
I will use a short, wide flathead screwdriver to keep the flywheel in position while torquing it down.
Must I depress the new pressure plate in order to install the SPEC flywheel, clutch, pressure plate?
Could I use orange loctite? I have a stick left over from marine the Comptech Supercharger.
Personally, I wouldn't use it for this job. That orange Loctite is a 'flange' type sealer; with that said, It may be prudent to invest in a small tube of the right stuff for the job.
Reason being and hopefully not; but you may have to visit this job again, in future, so you don't need any complications, in that already tight space, removing the flywheel bolts. Heaven forbid that you can't remove a bolt and end up rounding one off.
Originally Posted by Saving4aTL
I will use a short, wide flathead screwdriver to keep the flywheel in position while torquing it down.
If so, having an extra 'body' / set of hands around will help with that.
Originally Posted by Saving4aTL
Must I depress the new pressure plate in order to install the SPEC flywheel, clutch, pressure plate? https://youtu.be/D9OvPbWFKwQ
This guy used one, but it is absolutely necessary for the install?
Good question. It looks like he used some kind of 'improvised' one and is installing an OEM equivalent self-adjusting LUK pressure plate. He also states that he torqued the flywheel bolts to 76lbf-ft. so my (87lbf-ft) above is not correct.
The PP that you purchased, on gerzey bears advice, appears to not be self-adjusting; therefore, I'm thinking, no its does not need to be depressed as if it were OEM.
I believe compression will be achieved, gradually, as you crisscross tighten down the PP bolts. Just make sure to do a little at a time so the PP is flush, then do your final torque. In addition, If you need to adjust the clutch, somewhere down the line, you will need to do it at the pedal when switching to a non-self adjusting pressure plate.
You may want to shoot gerzy bear a text and see what he thinks, to be sure.
BTW, is that a light weight flywheel or dual mass? And does your new clutch disc have springs on it? There's no picture on page 20.
[QUO[i]for the first inch or so. You will then have the spline rod holding on the engine, and the other end resting safely on the subfame. Move the tranny out of the way! I will jimmy it a bit more, but there is plenty of room for the job.
[/QUOTE]
That looks less than ideal, you will need to do a lot of jiggling and rotating. Do you plan to do your crank seal as well?
Personally, I wouldn't use it for this job. That orange Loctite is a 'flange' type sealer; with that said, It may be prudent to invest in a small tube of the right stuff for the job.
Reason being and hopefully not; but you may have to visit this job again, in future, so you don't need any complications, in that already tight space, removing the flywheel bolts. Heaven forbid that you can't remove a bolt and end up rounding one off.
If so, having an extra 'body' / set of hands around will help with that.
Good question. It looks like he used some kind of 'improvised' one and is installing an OEM equivalent self-adjusting LUK pressure plate. He also states that he torqued the flywheel bolts to 76lbf-ft. so my (87lbf-ft) above is not correct.
The PP that you purchased, on gerzey bears advice, appears to not be self-adjusting; therefore, I'm thinking, no its does not need to be depressed as if it were OEM.
I believe compression will be achieved, gradually, as you crisscross tighten down the PP bolts. Just make sure to do a little at a time so the PP is flush, then do your final torque. In addition, If you need to adjust the clutch, somewhere down the line, you will need to do it at the pedal when switching to a non-self adjusting pressure plate.
You may want to shoot gerzy bear a text and see what he thinks, to be sure.
BTW, is that a light weight flywheel or dual mass? And does your new clutch disc have springs on it? There's no picture on page 20.
Gerzy Bear is roaming around Iceland at the moment. He will give us his expertise tonight.
Flywheel is a single mass. Not a jerky lightweight flywheel, and not slow and heavy like the dual mass, just right.
The clutch disk has six springs to smoothen the ride even further.
Last edited by Acura TL Builder; 05-24-2019 at 01:29 PM.
[QUO[i]for the first inch or so. You will then have the spline rod holding on the engine, and the other end resting safely on the subfame. Move the tranny out of the way! I will jimmy it a bit more, but there is plenty of room for the job.
That looks less than ideal, you will need to do a lot of jiggling and rotating. Do you plan to do your crank seal as well?[/QUOTE]
I can gain an inch with a little maneuvering. It will be more than plenty.
No crank seal, the car has been cared for and it’s at 90k miles.
I will change out the seal when I build the engine.
Going to try and put 500 miles on the clutch this weekend.
Maybe make a note on your 'To Do' list as you proceed with reassembly.
When you get to the point where you have to reinstall the front engine mount bracket, with the 4-5? bolts, back onto the engine block and trans. clutch case, make sure to quickly peak through the 'starter' orifice
to make sure that lower front engine mount flange bolt does not contact the starter ring teeth of the new flywheel. Sometimes the end of the front engine mount flange bolts get close to the FW ring teeth, as mentioned in the thread in post #849.
Maybe make a note on your 'To Do' list as you proceed with reassembly.
When you get to the point where you have to reinstall the front engine mount bracket, with the 4-5? bolts, back onto the engine block and trans. clutch case, make sure to quickly peak through the 'starter' orifice
to make sure that lower front engine mount flange bolt does not contact the starter ring teeth of the new flywheel. Sometimes the end of the front engine mount flange bolts get close to the FW ring teeth, as mentioned in the thread in post #849.
Thank you Sir, if it contacts it I have a proper washer to add additional space between the two points.
Personally, I wouldn't use it for this job. That orange Loctite is a 'flange' type sealer; with that said, It may be prudent to invest in a small tube of the right stuff for the job.
Reason being and hopefully not; but you may have to visit this job again, in future, so you don't need any complications, in that already tight space, removing the flywheel bolts. Heaven forbid that you can't remove a bolt and end up rounding one off.
If so, having an extra 'body' / set of hands around will help with that.
Good question. It looks like he used some kind of 'improvised' one and is installing an OEM equivalent self-adjusting LUK pressure plate. He also states that he torqued the flywheel bolts to 76lbf-ft. so my (87lbf-ft) above is not correct.
The PP that you purchased, on gerzey bears advice, appears to not be self-adjusting; therefore, I'm thinking, no its does not need to be depressed as if it were OEM.
I believe compression will be achieved, gradually, as you crisscross tighten down the PP bolts. Just make sure to do a little at a time so the PP is flush, then do your final torque. In addition, If you need to adjust the clutch, somewhere down the line, you will need to do it at the pedal when switching to a non-self adjusting pressure plate.
You may want to shoot gerzy bear a text and see what he thinks, to be sure.
BTW, is that a light weight flywheel or dual mass? And does your new clutch disc have springs on it? There's no picture on page 20.
This specific SPEC brand clutch assembly and SPEC brand single mass flywheel uses a non-ratcheting aka non-SAC (Non-Self-Adjusting) pressure plate and a sprung disc and *NOT* a sprung (dual mass) flywheel. This means your car will require pedal adjustment over the life of the clutch. A SAC flywheel (like OEM for the 3g TL) on the other hand will self adjust over the life of the clutch but SAC clutch assemblies suck because they cant take abuse and they do fatique horribly under heat which can cause gear lockout.
Old clutch still has meat on it. It was just a lack of pressure from the pressure plate that allowed it to spin. To remove the pressure plate you must shimmy the tranny into the perfect position. And thing less will end in the inability to remove PP due to spline shaft pressing it against the FlyWheel. PP and clutch disk will come out together. I was easier to remove the clutch disk in between the PP and FW first. There are the FW bolts. Size #17 12 point Short 3/8 socket fits like a glove. Use a 3/8 wrench of a smaller caliber. Use a breaker bar to give you leverage I used a Dremel to shave the socket tip so it would completely seat over the FW bolt. The last thing we want are rounded FW bolts. Finished product!
^
Nice touch with the socket, shaving it down like that to maximize precious space and seat.
It looks like you will have just enough room to get a 3/8 drive torque wrench in there to get you to 76lbf-ft on the flywheel bolts. It will be even tighter with the pressure plate. Is that what your plan is?
05-23-2019, 12:38 AM
since we really don't know until you find out in doing it.
