ATLP, XLR8, and RV6 J-pipes tested togther. Features ATLP V2-R!
11-04-2014, 04:39 PM
#1
ATLP, XLR8, and RV6 J-pipes tested togther. Features ATLP V2-R!
W did this test a while back but it took a while because we were only able to get the raw data files from Church Auto Testing to publish. I needed to put them in excel and normalize all the data. It was a lot more involved than I expected but I didn't want someone calling us out for not having the graphs cross at the right place, etc. The numbers have not been fiddled with at all. If anyone wants the csvs shoot me an email.
The test car was a boosted TL-S with a Flashpro and a high boost pulley. It was an automatic as well. If gains and losses are viewed as percentages we feel the relative graph data above will be indicative of what we would see on an NA J-series.
AFR and IAT were both monitored closely for consistency. No pipes required retuing to get these numbers, and tuning would not have needed noticeable differences (we played with it...it would not have). But the tune in the car was optimized when we got to it having just been dialed in on the same dyno the day before.
All tests done on the same day, same car, same dyno, same procedure:
3 pulls to heat up engine, then rest for 5 minutes, then one pull to be the one to use for the test. In all cases the "1 pull" was about on average with the rest of the pre-runs. We feel this data is all repeatable and reliable when done under the same conditions.
Full disclosure, at the time of testing and posting, ATLP is produced by Heeltoe. If anyone wants to call Church Testing to validate the test, feel free. Again, the raw data is available for whoever wants it.
Our take-aways:
In other news, the ATLP options were easier to install. RV6 fit great but awkward to install with the long floppy pipes. XLR8 was off a bit. It took more forcing on the cats and didn't line up as well as the others on the cat-back.
They all sounded about the same. The 3" makes the car sound like a monster though.
ATLP V2 vs XLR8 V2 vs RV6 V3
Of course no matter what pipe you choose, Heeltoeauto.com has the service and website you need to make your decision where to buy a simple one!
XLR8 V2 vs ATLP V2-R
All ATLP Shootout
We spent a lot of money and time to develop an ATLP version of the XLR8 pipe with a 3" collector. And to learn that we still like the ATLP V2 best. It allows you to swap a stock cat back in unlike all the others, fits great, sounds great, makes great power...and is the least costly.
The test car was a boosted TL-S with a Flashpro and a high boost pulley. It was an automatic as well. If gains and losses are viewed as percentages we feel the relative graph data above will be indicative of what we would see on an NA J-series.
AFR and IAT were both monitored closely for consistency. No pipes required retuing to get these numbers, and tuning would not have needed noticeable differences (we played with it...it would not have). But the tune in the car was optimized when we got to it having just been dialed in on the same dyno the day before.
All tests done on the same day, same car, same dyno, same procedure:
3 pulls to heat up engine, then rest for 5 minutes, then one pull to be the one to use for the test. In all cases the "1 pull" was about on average with the rest of the pre-runs. We feel this data is all repeatable and reliable when done under the same conditions.
Full disclosure, at the time of testing and posting, ATLP is produced by Heeltoe. If anyone wants to call Church Testing to validate the test, feel free. Again, the raw data is available for whoever wants it.
Our take-aways:
- Pay attention to the scale on dyno graphs. We posted no power figures to force you to look at the scale. The first two graphs are the same, but the scales are different.
- 3" piping makes a difference, no matter what j-pipe you have. ATLP is currently the only one on the market offering a bolt-on options for it!
- The original ATLP V2 gives up power when you are driving slow, but makes more power than anything else when you are driving quicker than...well, slow.
- The XLR8 V2 is really similar to the V2-R. Pipe lengths are almost the same But we didn't test it with a 3" mid pipe to see if that makes much of a difference on an XLR8. Wish I would have!
- RV6 vs XLR8 are here and there and back and forth...but the ATLP performs best on anything above your automatic's torque converter lockup point.
- The original ATLP V2 with a Race Pipe and our 3" sections make for the option to get for the most power. The larger piping adds to the gains and helps to recover some lost bottom-range torque.
In other news, the ATLP options were easier to install. RV6 fit great but awkward to install with the long floppy pipes. XLR8 was off a bit. It took more forcing on the cats and didn't line up as well as the others on the cat-back.
They all sounded about the same. The 3" makes the car sound like a monster though.
ATLP V2 vs XLR8 V2 vs RV6 V3
Of course no matter what pipe you choose, Heeltoeauto.com has the service and website you need to make your decision where to buy a simple one!
XLR8 V2 vs ATLP V2-R
All ATLP Shootout
We spent a lot of money and time to develop an ATLP version of the XLR8 pipe with a 3" collector. And to learn that we still like the ATLP V2 best. It allows you to swap a stock cat back in unlike all the others, fits great, sounds great, makes great power...and is the least costly.
The following 7 users liked this post by MrHeeltoe:
1black_seven (11-04-2014),
abrieluno (11-24-2014),
Chisel (11-11-2014),
kingkong_dav (11-07-2014),
Mondo375 (11-04-2014),
and 2 others liked this post.
11-04-2014, 07:50 PM
#2
Were the runs data logged at all? It would be interesting to see the timing differences between the runs.
Even though the car was tuned, timing could change from run to run unless the knock control tables were zeroed out. Since it is a FI application, they should have been, but I've seen numerous tuners that leave those tables as is.
Even though the car was tuned, timing could change from run to run unless the knock control tables were zeroed out. Since it is a FI application, they should have been, but I've seen numerous tuners that leave those tables as is.
11-05-2014, 04:29 AM
#4
Were the runs data logged at all? It would be interesting to see the timing differences between the runs.
Even though the car was tuned, timing could change from run to run unless the knock control tables were zeroed out. Since it is a FI application, they should have been, but I've seen numerous tuners that leave those tables as is.
Even though the car was tuned, timing could change from run to run unless the knock control tables were zeroed out. Since it is a FI application, they should have been, but I've seen numerous tuners that leave those tables as is.
The following users liked this post:
Mondo375 (11-05-2014)
11-06-2014, 02:27 PM
#7
Trending Topics
11-06-2014, 11:29 PM
#8
KingKong_Dav
The atlp v2 shorty jpipe w test pipe made the most power. Combined with the 3inch v2r mid pipes it created the best balance for low end and high end. I knew this all along but I wanted to keep things classified. The v2r jpipe did gain over stock.
The following users liked this post:
MrHeeltoe (11-07-2014)
11-07-2014, 12:52 AM
#9
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Thanks for all the dyno and testing Marcus and Dave!!
So how come there are those huge dips in the beginning for the atlp v2, is that just bad logging at the beginning or is that item performance related?
May have to change out my xlr8 v1 for the atlp v2 since it gives me more height clearance, keeps good gains, and keeps me Cali smog legal!
So how come there are those huge dips in the beginning for the atlp v2, is that just bad logging at the beginning or is that item performance related?
May have to change out my xlr8 v1 for the atlp v2 since it gives me more height clearance, keeps good gains, and keeps me Cali smog legal!
11-07-2014, 08:38 AM
#11
11-07-2014, 09:56 AM
#13
All motor
Great tests! Interesting results to say the least...I still wonder how a 3" collector would change the performance of the V2. Also, I know you said not to pay attention to the scale, but the first dyno graph is ~20hp higher than any other graph. I just want to confirm, is there any reason why? Or am I looking too deep into it?
11-07-2014, 02:28 PM
#15
Thanks for all the dyno and testing Marcus and Dave!!
So how come there are those huge dips in the beginning for the atlp v2, is that just bad logging at the beginning or is that item performance related?
May have to change out my xlr8 v1 for the atlp v2 since it gives me more height clearance, keeps good gains, and keeps me Cali smog legal!
So how come there are those huge dips in the beginning for the atlp v2, is that just bad logging at the beginning or is that item performance related?
May have to change out my xlr8 v1 for the atlp v2 since it gives me more height clearance, keeps good gains, and keeps me Cali smog legal!
That dip was very consistent with the V2. We think it has something to do with the car being auto and therefore less responsive than a manual. We were not surprised to see it since a previous test showed similar response. Point is, though, as soon as you push the gas pedal your revs climb past that point and you are in the juice after it.
Great tests! Interesting results to say the least...I still wonder how a 3" collector would change the performance of the V2. Also, I know you said not to pay attention to the scale, but the first dyno graph is ~20hp higher than any other graph. I just want to confirm, is there any reason why? Or am I looking too deep into it?
On the contrary is specifically said (or was trying to say) to definitely pay attention to the scale. The first two graphs are the same, except the scale is changed. Look how different they look! Don't judge a dyno chart on the shape of the graph alone...watch the scales.
The following users liked this post:
sockr1 (11-07-2014)
11-07-2014, 02:42 PM
#16
The following users liked this post:
MrHeeltoe (11-07-2014)
11-07-2014, 10:18 PM
#18
KingKong_Dav
The atlp v2 shorty jpipe was a superior design for the j series. I think all automatic trans acura tl base n sport models should get this j pipe. It is most powerful after 3k rpm and is most usable to pass up traffic with the extra 8-10 lbs of tq. All these j pipes made power but the atlp v2 shorty performed the best. Xlr8 jpipe had alignment issues, rv6 jpipe looks good n does it job down low but falls flat on mid-high end power. The v2r is still a great buy because it did change the exhaust note and made it sound like a monster. My car feels great n is very powerful after this specific combo.
11-07-2014, 11:24 PM
#19
The atlp v2 shorty jpipe was a superior design for the j series. I think all automatic trans acura tl base n sport models should get this j pipe. It is most powerful after 3k rpm and is most usable to pass up traffic with the extra 8-10 lbs of tq. All these j pipes made power but the atlp v2 shorty performed the best. Xlr8 jpipe had alignment issues, rv6 jpipe looks good n does it job down low but falls flat on mid-high end power. The v2r is still a great buy because it did change the exhaust note and made it sound like a monster. My car feels great n is very powerful after this specific combo.
11-07-2014, 11:48 PM
#20
KingKong_Dav
It is responsive. I know the atlp v2 shorty jpipe made huge improvements on my day to day commute. I pass up traffic just barely pedaling the throttle. It downshift less because the power is where it need to be when I go up hills. When I do rev out the engine it becomes a monster.. Juss quick n sick. This is only compared to my stock jpipe n 3rd cat. So since there is no graphs on the factory j pipe it would be almost impossible to say what feels faster on light throttle. I feel improvements, top end is insane and I can feel it. Even without the graph the v2 shorty is a better part. It was made for the j series. Since I'm pcd it even cut down rasp. I can't give 100% credit to the o.g jpipe because the 3inch mid pipes made the car sound better and breathe better
11-08-2014, 10:43 PM
#21
Can you test all of this out on a non boosted car? Technically a boosted car needs a larger diameter opening for the exhaust, which correct me if I'm wrong but the ATLP V2 has the 3" collector thus being better for a boosted application rather then stock.
what Catback was used? pre-cats or no?
no one really has ever performed a test like this, so thats why I ask but this is good info.
I like how rv-6 pipes aren't "one" because the front flange has to dip around the front subframe, so this makes it a little easier to get that leverage. I've never had issues with the xlr8 j-pipe, but there Catback I have had issues with the passenger side almost all the installs with me having to bend the pipe to fit a little better. Other then that, no issues. I've seen random issues happen, no one is perfect but I would love to see every pipe installed on a stock car to see what each gains as most install these on stock TL's.
Its a lot of work so thank you for even doing this but I just feel that the donor car should have been non boosted. I plan on doing something like this as well once I find time, not enough time in the day
what Catback was used? pre-cats or no?
no one really has ever performed a test like this, so thats why I ask but this is good info.
I like how rv-6 pipes aren't "one" because the front flange has to dip around the front subframe, so this makes it a little easier to get that leverage. I've never had issues with the xlr8 j-pipe, but there Catback I have had issues with the passenger side almost all the installs with me having to bend the pipe to fit a little better. Other then that, no issues. I've seen random issues happen, no one is perfect but I would love to see every pipe installed on a stock car to see what each gains as most install these on stock TL's.
Its a lot of work so thank you for even doing this but I just feel that the donor car should have been non boosted. I plan on doing something like this as well once I find time, not enough time in the day
11-09-2014, 01:08 PM
#22
Can you test all of this out on a non boosted car? Technically a boosted car needs a larger diameter opening for the exhaust, which correct me if I'm wrong but the ATLP V2 has the 3" collector thus being better for a boosted application rather then stock.
what Catback was used? pre-cats or no?
no one really has ever performed a test like this, so thats why I ask but this is good info.
I like how rv-6 pipes aren't "one" because the front flange has to dip around the front subframe, so this makes it a little easier to get that leverage. I've never had issues with the xlr8 j-pipe, but there Catback I have had issues with the passenger side almost all the installs with me having to bend the pipe to fit a little better. Other then that, no issues. I've seen random issues happen, no one is perfect but I would love to see every pipe installed on a stock car to see what each gains as most install these on stock TL's.
Its a lot of work so thank you for even doing this but I just feel that the donor car should have been non boosted. I plan on doing something like this as well once I find time, not enough time in the day
what Catback was used? pre-cats or no?
no one really has ever performed a test like this, so thats why I ask but this is good info.
I like how rv-6 pipes aren't "one" because the front flange has to dip around the front subframe, so this makes it a little easier to get that leverage. I've never had issues with the xlr8 j-pipe, but there Catback I have had issues with the passenger side almost all the installs with me having to bend the pipe to fit a little better. Other then that, no issues. I've seen random issues happen, no one is perfect but I would love to see every pipe installed on a stock car to see what each gains as most install these on stock TL's.
Its a lot of work so thank you for even doing this but I just feel that the donor car should have been non boosted. I plan on doing something like this as well once I find time, not enough time in the day
The ATLP V2 has a 2.5" collector, although we may start making it larger. The V2-R does have a 3" collector.
Cat-back was an ATLP V2 Quad system with both 2.5" and 3" configurations. This car was equipped with stock cats.
11-09-2014, 07:02 PM
#23
Safety Car
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose, CA/ Charleston, WV
Posts: 4,045
Received 619 Likes
on
459 Posts
^ I already think they did a good enough job. Boost or no boost the hard facts are there, and on top of that I don't see any other vendor taking the time nor spending the money to get their product to do battle on the dyno.
You the man Marcus!
You the man Marcus!
The following 4 users liked this post by thisaznboi88:
11-09-2014, 11:39 PM
#24
I wasn't trying to be that guy, I was just asking for personal knowledge because like you said not many do this type of stuff. About a year ago rv-6 did do one for the catbacks. This must have taken all day, three chiropractor visits and a lot of red bull/coffee.
I was also just saying that because not everything has the same gain with one another. Once one starts mixing up pre-cats with j pipes and catbacks, I'm sure numbers will vary so because he's was the only one who has done this I was just asking. I would love to spend all day and compare everything but around here the only dynos are an arm and a leg to rent and to buy one just for this would be a waste. Also FI power bands are all different depending upon the set up because i know the power band on my comptech was 100% different than my m90 from paul. Either or most aren't boosted, and when we are boosted we don't have generic set ups, its mostly custom so for everyday cars this information is defiantly good. Its all about innovation and doing something new, I remember when the V1 first j pipe was out for this car and now its a joke to whats available..
I wonder how pauls set up would do, he makes the pre-cats/j pipe/third cat all in one.
I was also just saying that because not everything has the same gain with one another. Once one starts mixing up pre-cats with j pipes and catbacks, I'm sure numbers will vary so because he's was the only one who has done this I was just asking. I would love to spend all day and compare everything but around here the only dynos are an arm and a leg to rent and to buy one just for this would be a waste. Also FI power bands are all different depending upon the set up because i know the power band on my comptech was 100% different than my m90 from paul. Either or most aren't boosted, and when we are boosted we don't have generic set ups, its mostly custom so for everyday cars this information is defiantly good. Its all about innovation and doing something new, I remember when the V1 first j pipe was out for this car and now its a joke to whats available..
I wonder how pauls set up would do, he makes the pre-cats/j pipe/third cat all in one.
Last edited by AckTL05; 11-09-2014 at 11:47 PM.
The following users liked this post:
thisaznboi88 (11-09-2014)
11-10-2014, 08:14 AM
#25
Pro
Needs to be done on a stock car and on a fbo car. That would complete the testing imo. F/I magnifies the differences. they may all be within a few hp of each other. If that's the case the one that comes out on top will be the one that offers the best benefits for the mods on the car.
11-10-2014, 01:04 PM
#27
Needs to be done on a stock car and on a fbo car. That would complete the testing imo. F/I magnifies the differences. they may all be within a few hp of each other. If that's the case the one that comes out on top will be the one that offers the best benefits for the mods on the car.
Now, that was PRE-FLASHPRO, so we take any dyno on a TL that is more than a few years old with a grain of salt. Timing curves mess with the whole works. Also, that car has a manual. Would it be nice to see a manual dyno compared to an auto? Is that power band different? Great questions we cannot currently answer.
But you can see the general truths are the same. The ATLP has a dip down low and better top end. I guess we can glean from that test as well that the supercharger definitely will make flow a factor. The ATLP look better on the boosted car than it does on an NA one...but then again we have a lot of people with TL-S engine, no cats, J37 manifolds, cams....at some point, sooner or later, the better choice is going to be an ATLP V2.
Define "this."
11-10-2014, 01:29 PM
#28
Pro
The only jpipe that doesn't fit an accord.. So, tighter bend or start the bend earlier? I haven't seen a picture to see which is more likely to happen.
And i don't give any credibility to the older test due to all the changing factors. Sorry, but it should be done again now that you can pretty much control everything.
And i don't give any credibility to the older test due to all the changing factors. Sorry, but it should be done again now that you can pretty much control everything.
Last edited by NvrDwn; 11-10-2014 at 01:32 PM.
11-10-2014, 02:24 PM
#29
I am going to need you to tell me what specific pipe you are talking about and the specific year/gen of Accord.
The older test, I agree, has reduced credibility. But it is still a good reference in our estimation. We may know more about the variance between these j-pipes than anyone else does. We've done 3 full-day comparative tests.
The older test, I agree, has reduced credibility. But it is still a good reference in our estimation. We may know more about the variance between these j-pipes than anyone else does. We've done 3 full-day comparative tests.
11-10-2014, 02:33 PM
#30
All motor
I think he's talking about the V2-R, Marcus.
The following users liked this post:
MrHeeltoe (11-10-2014)
11-10-2014, 04:37 PM
#32
Ok, cool. We did send one off and had a report that it did not fit which we have not validated. We'd like to get an Accord (2003-07) to test fit and see what can be done. I for one am not sure where the fitment problem could be. If someone has some light to shed, please email support@heeltoeauto.com.
Thanks for the support, folks!
-Marcus
Thanks for the support, folks!
-Marcus
11-10-2014, 07:42 PM
#33
Pro
Ok, cool. We did send one off and had a report that it did not fit which we have not validated. We'd like to get an Accord (2003-07) to test fit and see what can be done. I for one am not sure where the fitment problem could be. If someone has some light to shed, please email support@heeltoeauto.com.
Thanks for the support, folks!
-Marcus
Thanks for the support, folks!
-Marcus
11-11-2014, 11:28 AM
#36
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
We wanted to test an XLR8 V1 and an ATLP V1 as well, but unfortunately did not have access to the pipes.
That dip was very consistent with the V2. We think it has something to do with the car being auto and therefore less responsive than a manual. We were not surprised to see it since a previous test showed similar response. Point is, though, as soon as you push the gas pedal your revs climb past that point and you are in the juice after it.
That dip was very consistent with the V2. We think it has something to do with the car being auto and therefore less responsive than a manual. We were not surprised to see it since a previous test showed similar response. Point is, though, as soon as you push the gas pedal your revs climb past that point and you are in the juice after it.
11-11-2014, 01:23 PM
#37
i'm worried most about that initial dip up to 3300 on the atlp v2 since that is a daily driving range. would this be minimized on a manual? it's the only thing holding me back since i would prefer some more ground clearance while keeping a cat. this is my daily and am just wondering if i would see a difference in a bad way going to this jpipe from the xlr8 one
We do think this would not be as prominent on a manual on a dyno.
Given that we did not test an XLR8 V1 we cannot tell you what power change to expect. We can only tell you that there have not been any issues with power using an ATLP V2, and the product has not changed in 4 years or so.
The following users liked this post:
sockr1 (11-11-2014)
