MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

We did this test a while back but it took a while because we were only able to get the raw data files from Church Auto Testing to publish. I needed to put them in excel and normalize all the data. It was a lot more involved than I expected but I didn't want someone calling us out for not having the graphs cross at the right place, etc. The numbers have not been fiddled with at all. If anyone wants the csvs shoot me an email.

The test car was a boosted TL-S with a Flashpro and a high boost pulley. It was an automatic as well. If gains and losses are viewed as percentages we feel the relative graph data above will be indicative of what we would see on an NA J-series.

AFR and IAT were both monitored closely for consistency. No pipes required retuning to get these numbers, and tuning would not have needed noticeable differences (we played with it...it would not have). But the tune in the car was optimized when we got to it having just been dialed in on the same dyno the day before.

All tests done on the same day, same car, same dyno, same procedure:
3 pulls to heat up engine, then rest for 5 minutes, then one pull to be the one to use for the test. In all cases the "1 pull" was about on average with the rest of the pre-runs. We feel this data is all repeatable and reliable when done under the same conditions.

Full disclosure, at the time of testing and posting, ATLP is produced by Heeltoe. If anyone wants to call Church Testing to validate the test, feel free. Again, the raw data is available for whoever wants it.

Our take-aways:

• Pay attention to the scale on dyno graphs. We posted no power figures to force you to look at the scale. The first two graphs are the same, but the scales are different.
• 3" piping makes a difference, no matter what j-pipe you have. ATLP is currently the only one on the market offering a bolt-on options for it!
• The original ATLP V2 gives up power when you are driving slow, but makes more power than anything else when you are driving quicker than...well, slow.
• The XLR8 V2 is really similar to the V2-R. Pipe lengths are almost the same But we didn't test it with a 3" mid pipe to see if that makes much of a difference on an XLR8. Wish I would have!
• RV6 vs XLR8 are here and there and back and forth...but the ATLP performs best on anything above your automatic's torque converter lockup point.
• The original ATLP V2 with a Race Pipe and our 3" sections make for the option to get for the most power. The larger piping adds to the gains and helps to recover some lost bottom-range torque.

In other news, the ATLP options were easier to install. RV6 fit great but awkward to install with the long floppy pipes. XLR8 was off a bit. It took more forcing on the cats and didn't line up as well as the others on the cat-back.

They all sounded about the same. The 3" makes the car sound like a monster though.

ATLP V2 vs XLR8 V2 vs RV6 V3



Of course no matter what pipe you choose, Heeltoeauto.com has the service and website you need to make your decision where to buy a simple one!

XLR8 V2 vs ATLP V2-R




All ATLP Shootout




We spent a lot of money and time to develop an ATLP version of the XLR8 pipe with a 3" collector. And to learn that we still like the ATLP V2 best. It allows you to swap a stock cat back in unlike all the others, fits great, sounds great, makes great power...and is the least costly.

Grand_hustle17

Great info.... When u say "mid section"... You mean just catback piping right?...

Mondo375

iTrader: (3)

From end of 3rd cat to the mufflers. Pipes on the left.

polobunny

How should we analyze the data from the ATLP shootout graph? My eyes do not deceive me in reading the V2-R has lost a bit of tq and hp at high rpm due to loss of pressure (better at lower rpm, though!)?
Or would you quantify the loss due to run?

Also, how would you define the sound of the V2-R vs the V2 on 3 inch mid section? Similar or more throaty for the V2-R?

Grand_hustle17

Oh shiz... I have atlp quads too.... How much the mid sections run?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Yes, well, the front pipe behind the cat and the y-pipe section.

I would say
1) The V2 is a great choice for making power.
2) The V2-R is more balanced but don't bother unless you are going 3" all the way.
3) The sound is pretty comparable in the tone. When you toss the 3" section on there things get louder, but not exceedingly to. Our tester has had the parts on his car for some time and is pretty happy. As you know, the ATLP is known for smooth, aggressive, deep tone but not adolescent sounding.

$560 for the set.

6spd-GERCO

Thanks for sharing and taking the time to do this but as others have voiced, I wish this was on an N/A TL or TL-S and I would have liked to have seen a 6MT in the mix. So demanding

polobunny

I don't see why the results shouldn't be very similar. The values might end up different, but the gains and difference should correlate.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for that, this has been my statement. We have seen similar curves on Manual and on N/A cars.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

how much trade in would you give for an ATLP v1. Its in decent condition but has an o2 bung welded on.

Do you sell the ATLP v2-r 3in with an o2 bung?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, email me. We do have a buy-back program here:No-Hassle Returns, Refunds, and Buy-Backs

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ just shot you an email.

Grand_hustle17

Oh shiz...a buy back program?.. I can now put this on my list of things to get

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Not so. Forced induction will always benefit disproportionately to N/A cars when you start increasing exhaust diameter. Not taking anything away from the product, since it seems solid, but since 99+% of the TL market is N/A it would have been interesting to see it done on an N/A tester.

6spd-GERCO

I still want to see testing on an N/A car to validate the gains from 2.5" to 3". The gains make sense in an FI application, but I don't believe the results on the test you conducted will directly translate over to N/A power. Do you have any of the Hondata datalogs from these runs?

This is a fantastic product and it's always nice to have more options. If I didn't already have an exhaust this would be the exhaust option I would go with.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Let's take it from the top....


1) We tested all three existing pipes, back to back, with a 2.5" exhaust to show that the different j-pipes would do to the power band of the engine. This would not change if the car is boosted or not. It is a shape-of-curve test. This test is shown in the first two graphs. If you'd disagree with this point, I feel confident in placing the burden of proof on you to show otherwise.

2) We tested the XLR8 V2 and ATLP V2-R back to back seeing how similar their plots are. We then added a 3" mid-section onto the V2-R to see what the increase in power would be. We saw the graph shift up directly with essentially no shift in power band. This seems to be the point that is in debate...people for some reason are looking for us to validate a 3" system on an NA car, which, to us, is unnecessary. "It would be interesting to see" is a moot point. We are doing tests to validate the product, not strictly for entertainment.

3) The last graph is just showing all the traces of all the ATLP product together.

If you have an NA car and want great gains, the ATLP V2, ATLP V2-R, or XLR8 V2 are all good choices.

If you think you will be building the engine for power, The ATLP V2 with a 3" mid section is the thing to do, boosted or not. More exhaust flow is going to give more power (we are not claiming numbers, but this is a fact).

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

^^^ Rereading that it I hope it doesn't come off abrasive. I am just wondering what we could have done more? We spent an entire day at the dyno and I think we came away with valuable info. No, we didn't test a 3" system on a NA car...but we aren't specifically saying someone with an NA car should get a 3" system either.

This test didn't compare j-pipes on an NA car, but the results would have been the same. The numbers on the sides of the graphs would have been different, but that is about it. This was our third j-pipe dyno trip and we feel very confident in our experience.

Mondo375

iTrader: (3)

I'll glady accept donations to get dyno'd. Lol

Bruce Banner

iTrader: (2)

I have the V2R pipe on my NA TL, if you ever decide to generate the data, I could pitch in.

6spd-GERCO

Yes, your first post came off in a not so nice tone when I read it. I appreciate the testing you did and then taking the time to add this info to the forum, thank you! The issue I have is that you use a supercharged TL to perform your testing. It's a proven point that the 3" exhaust is better for FI, your test validate this. Plus the HP levels Dave was at definitely benefit from having a larger diameter exhaust.

This is from your website.

https://www.heeltoeauto.com/blogs/j-...6-vs-xlr8.html

The blog post points to the fact that the factory ECU caused the test results to be inconclusive. J-pipes shouldn't be compared by themselves. The whole system needs to be evaluated. To get the maximum gains from any setup (ATLP, RV6 or XLR8) requires having a tuning solution tuned to the flow characteristics or VE of the system. Most people don't even want to get a tuning solution at this point for their TL, lol something about $/hp... since tuning is now available I would suggest reconducting the tests in the blog post above to validate gains on an N/A platform.

You over looked my question of if you have the Hondata datalogs for the corresponding runs. Do you have these?

Grand_hustle17

Kinda want to do the buy back thing for the 3"mid section... Im currently looking to dyno so i should have #'s with the 2.5 atlp catback.. But ive always been a fan of 3"catback.. Whats the price for the 3" mid section atlp?

Mondo375

iTrader: (3)

$560

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The previous test should never have been published. The car we used was never driven aggressively and as we systematically ran tests the computer was all over the place trying to "learn" how to make power as we were changing parts around. It was a failed test because the car didn't have a flashpro.

In this latest test, we made the sure the car had a flashpro. This was for the purpose of getting consistent maps and therefore comparable runs. We went in to this test prepared to adjust the tune for each pipe that went on, but knock and afr were all consistent and no tune was needed to get the most out of each pipe. What we found was that the pipes did not need individual tunes.

If someone does not want to have a Flashpro or cannot get one for their car, that is ok. The pipes will still work essentially the same compared to eachother tuned or not. From one run to the next there will be a variation in power, but a driver will never feel this. It shows on a dyno though. What our previous test showed us is that while tuning might not be needed to get the most out of a j-pipe, you need to lock the timing down if you want to do any kind of comparative testing from one pipe to another.

I know you are suggesting to reconduct the test. You aren't the only one. I am suggesting it would not be an efficient use of resources. There would be little or nothing learned from it (by little learned, I mean I believe I'd learn nothing...which is in itself something).

We did not take data logs on the Flashpro. I am wondering what purpose there would have been in doing so.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

marcus just wanted to say thanks for performing the jpipe comparison dynos and graphs, it provided a great overall general picture of how the pipes hit certain parts of the power band.

even though i mainly changed from the xlr8 v1 to the atlp v2 for height clearance reasons, the jpipe comparisons helped push me that little bit to make the purchase. i'm loving the top end hp and torque with the v2 right now! so at least this testing resulted in one sale for you haha

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for that. We really wanted to test V1 XLR8 and ATLP pipes to see how they compared...that definitely WOULD have been interesting. But we didn't have any on hand

Grand_hustle17

Did you do the buyback for yours.?.. Any clips?

Takata 18

Would this fit a Greedy Evo II EXHAUST. How much does it affect sound.

TacoBello

Man, the ATLP is kind of worrisome at low RPM... I mean, I normally cruise at around 2000 RPM, but that pipe seems to have a significant power drop early on and then just shifts the power higher up in the curve- for a daily driving application, it's kind of useless. For a track application, it would be great. Especially since it doesn't catch up in power delivery to the other j-pipes until 3500ish RPM- I mean, that's half of the TLs rev zone. Then it doesn't start out performing the other pipes until 4400ish RPM.

I came to realize the AEM V2 intake did the same thing (at least on a 99 Civic SiR). It robbed power down low and increased it up high. I ended up selling that intake and when I put the stock one back on, I was shocked how much better the car was for daily driving after the switch. It's generally not very noticeable losing some power, but it is when gaining (another example of this is when switching to light weight wheels).

By the end of the day, if someone took any of the pipes to the strip, they'd likely all end up with the same times at the end. However, for daily driving, the ATLP seems like a bad choice. I don't mean to hate- I myself have the ATLP quads on my TL

Any chance there was something wrong/different when the ATLP was tested, as compared to the others?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

^^ I daily drive and have switched to the atlp from xlr8 v1, I've driven it for a week so far and am very impressed with the atlp v2. You don't have the instantaneous push like xlr8 but it has enough power down low and as soon as you open the throttle a little bit it really kicks in.

If someone switched the jpipes without me knowing I wouldn't have said anything about lost power down low but the difference higher up is definitely noticeable

polobunny

Third cat I imagine. XLR8 V2 and RV6 V3 delete it. ATLP V2 does not, ATLP V2-R does.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Yes all these j-pipes fit with a Greddy cat-back. Sound won't change dramatically from one pipe to the next.

Drive your car around, and look at the tack. Pay attention to where there RPMs are when your foot is on and off the gas. As soon as you go to accelerate you pretty quickly are well above that dip in the graph. Cruising you are 2000 rpm and below, but accelerating, even moderately, you are well above 3000 rpm all the time.

The power is not at all useless on the street. It makes power when you are trying to go fast, not when you are trying to go slow. I understand the desire for low end power, but when it is essentially below the stall speed of the torque converter then it truly is a useless gain.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

When you're wringing your car out, you're always in the 4.5k to 7k rpm range, so ultimately this is where you want to make the most power.

Grand_hustle17

Whats the buyback value on the 2.5" mid section? Atlp

6spd-GERCO

I was hoping to get a little more insight into the test results with the datalogs.

When I added my RV6 J-pipe & FlashPro I netted the following gains:

2000 rpm WHP: 0 WTQ:10
3000 rpm WHP: 5 WTQ:10
4000 rpm WHP: 0 WTQ:5
5000 rpm WHP: 5 WTQ:0
6000 rpm WHP: 10 WTQ:10
6800 rpm WHP: 20 WTQ:10

The red values are jacked because VTEC was set high

If the gains are as good as the first graph shows, switching out my RV6 J-pipe to an ATLP J-pipe would be tempting.

Bruce Banner

iTrader: (2)

What happens to the parts that are bought back? Clearance?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

There is a process for submitting those though this link: https://www.heeltoeauto.com/heeltoe-...buy-backs.html

So, you would want to compare the data logs to your own? Our stance is that with an ATLP you'd gain power over the RV6. LMK if you wanna try it out.

Oh, maybe...I dunno. We like to hold onto them in case we need to do more testing later.

Bruce Banner

iTrader: (2)

If you need a NA 6MT to test, let me know.

31black

08 Auto tl type s stock... would the atlp v2 with the cat delete pipe be a better performer than the v2r? Unless I go with a v2r and add 3 inch mid pipes right? can the atlp mid pipes be bolted to the stock quads? I dont like the staggered atlp quads theyre nice but not for me. Or what would you suggest?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I'd probably get the V2 with a race-pipe, yes. This is for MAX gains, and therefore better performance when driven fast. For daily use the V2-R may be a bit more tractable. 3" mids with either pipe will raise the bar on power more.

Unfortunately these pipes won't directly bolt to stock mufflers, but you could have that fab work done custom at a local shop.

6spd-GERCO

XLR8 tips look more like the stock Type-S tips if that's what your looking for. I have and RV6 True dual which look very much like stock but stick a little further our than the stock to fit the ASPEC rear kit better. It seems like Richie's on the fence about making another batch.

Here's the thread>

https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...tch%5D-917014/

ATLP makes great stuff but I, like you, perfer a stock like tip design over the staggered tip set-up.