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Nope. I just gauge everything by corrected trap speed and weight estimates. I don't know if Dragtimes has messed with their algorithms. When I trapped 102.3 mph last year it corrected to roughly the same and I figured I was mid-upper 250's at the time. I've got Vit graphing a virtual dyno for me after my 20th calibration, so we'll see. Maybe mid 260's?
Rv6.. Drop in some cams and dyno... From what paul from v6performance says.. Regrounding isnt that good for the long haul.. I think he said something about the materials used to reground wears out eventually
No idea which cams to use. Really don't want to be a guinea pig for another company.
Originally Posted by i_love_cars
Hi Rich.
Hey Jordan, good to see you are still around. I believe I talked to the guy that purchased your TL after he broken another PCD I think that's 3 or 4. Turns out all his XLR8 mounts were shot.
Who did you have "degree" the stock cam and regrinds. If I play with cams I definitely want to approach it with a scientific method. I think you mentioned the issue was that the company that did the regrinds did not degree the cams. So it was pretty much a shot in the dark.
Nope. I just gauge everything by corrected trap speed and weight estimates. I don't know if Dragtimes has messed with their algorithms. When I trapped 102.3 mph last year it corrected to roughly the same and I figured I was mid-upper 250's at the time. I've got Vit graphing a virtual dyno for me after my 20th calibration, so we'll see. Maybe mid 260's?
Really doesnt matter.. People like to calculate for perfect setups but fail to realise everday isnt perfect... Car traps a 102... 102mph it is lol. All that DA calculations and guesstimates on if the car is quicker means nothing.
To say that DA doesn't matter is pretty shortsighted. If I live in Colorado and my car traps 110mph at a DA of 5500, and you run 110mph at a DA of -350 in Louisiana, if we meet at a sea level track and race, I'm gonna wax you.
To say that 102 is 102 shows a lack of understanding of atmospheric pressure and temperature's role in a vehicles performance. By knowing the DA on his run, I'm able to quantify (for myself if nothing else) the performance of his car.
Let's take anx's example - with his mods he ran 102. If he is in Colorado with a DA of 5000, that is even MORE impressive, as it would probably be a good 2 mph faster at sea level. However, if he ran that at Englishtown on a cold morning with a DA of -350, while it is still a 102, it's less impressive to me simply because I'm at sea level ish, and I know here compared to my vehicle, it would probably lose a mph or 2.
When someone has quarter mile numbers, people want dyno numbers. When someone has dyno numbers, people want quarter mile numbers. I don't care which is provided as long as all of the data is there to support it.
At a DA of 5000 in an all motor car, he may gain 3-4mph. I believe he is in upstate NY, but I don't know what time of the year that run was in.
All DA corrections aren't equal though, IMO. Let's say it's 800ft DA but it's 60 degrees with really low (29.6x in) atmospheric pressure. I don't think that would still equal an 800ft DA day of 72 with 30 in of pressure. This is just my opinion though and I could be totally off base. The key is going on a good day, pretty much. You here about this guy named "Ranger" who holds a few records for Z06s, but he goes to MIR in December. While the ETs/Traps are still impressive, on a normal day he wouldn't be seeing those times. Similar to how I went 13.46 @106.66 with a 2.2 60' in December, yet 13.54 @104.48 with a 2.0 in October.
Anyway, I really think that cams will completely change the J series. Our stock cams have .372" of lift according to the specs posted here and V6P, which is very mild. My buddy has .5xx lift cams in his RSX lol, so we still have a long way to go and tons more power to make!
In my opinion its two things that will open this motor up. When you see TBmotoworx and evans racing now doing J series motors and making 400 whp it not just because they are upping the compression to 15:1.
I also thought they were punching those motors out to ridiculous displacement like 3.9 or 4.1 motors, but someone posted on another board that when the tb car broke 400 wheel it was only 3.5L. To get to the point they are doing it with:
1. Cams
2. Reving the motors out to the moon
I honestly think someone could have a daily driven 320-340 hp J series if they built the thing to rev to 8200 and we figured out how to run a pretty agressive cam and the owner was ok with having a little bit of a lumpy idle.
Anyone know what TB or evans is reving their car to?
It was an honest 102 mph according to dragtimes calculator. It was last September, mid afternoon, temp in the 60's, 413' elevation. I believe it corrected up a couple tenths. I'll find the slip and check the stats again. It wasn't a power robbing 90 degree July day, nor was it a 35 degree, 10 PM November run at sea level. I always use that same calc to gauge changes.
Dynos are a great tool as well, but they're overrated IMO. Hell, Carroll Shelby used the track to tune his cars before the dyno was even invented and it worked for him.
Lol, actually, the slip is on here in the R&C section. It was 10/12/13 @ 10:44 AM, not September. Track is officially listed at 398' above sea level. 61 degrees, 30.22 inches Hg, 62% humidity. DA was 428', 98.75% power and it corrected from 102.22 to 102.43 mph
To say that DA doesn't matter is pretty shortsighted. If I live in Colorado and my car traps 110mph at a DA of 5500, and you run 110mph at a DA of -350 in Louisiana, if we meet at a sea level track and race, I'm gonna wax you.
To say that 102 is 102 shows a lack of understanding of atmospheric pressure and temperature's role in a vehicles performance. By knowing the DA on his run, I'm able to quantify (for myself if nothing else) the performance of his car.
Let's take anx's example - with his mods he ran 102. If he is in Colorado with a DA of 5000, that is even MORE impressive, as it would probably be a good 2 mph faster at sea level. However, if he ran that at Englishtown on a cold morning with a DA of -350, while it is still a 102, it's less impressive to me simply because I'm at sea level ish, and I know here compared to my vehicle, it would probably lose a mph or 2.
When someone has quarter mile numbers, people want dyno numbers. When someone has dyno numbers, people want quarter mile numbers. I don't care which is provided as long as all of the data is there to support it.
I say DA doesnt matter because at the end of the day you ran what you ran... Im not saying it doesnt have an effect on how the car dragged because it def does... But lets be honest the absolute only purpose of DA calculations is to compare and spaculate on "ifs".... A car in maryland will drag a faster time and mph than one in denver.. Completely agree... I only say it does not matter because the car in denver ran what it ran and the car in md ran what it ran... All else is math and speculations
Last edited by Grand_hustle17; 10-22-2014 at 11:10 AM.
I say DA doesnt matter because at the end of the day you ran what you ran... Im not saying it doesnt have an effect on how the car dragged because it def does... But lets be honest the absolute only purpose of DA calculations is to compare and spaculate on "ifs".... A car in maryland will drag a faster time and mph than one in denver.. Completely agree... I only say it does not matter because the car in denver ran what it ran and the car in md ran what it ran... All else is math and speculations
That's a silly notion. The only way to compare two setups that are not next to each other is by using corrections. If I have a boosted setup running 105mph traps at 5000 ft, and your NA setup runs 105 at Englishtown on a 10 degree day, if you don't understand DA, you'll think they are comparable setups. Yes, they ran the same mph, but if they ever meet and race each other, regardless of if at a high elevation or low, it is not a comparable match in performance.
I'm not trying to say, oh you REALLY ran a 105 corrected - I don't care about that, but trying to see what factors influenced the performance on that run.
In Anx example, it is a farily comparable scenario to my elevation and temp, which gives me the ability to at least get a rough idea of how much power or how much faster his car is than mine. Does that make sense?
It's kind of like comparing uncorrected dyno numbers. At least if you're comparing the same brand dyno, using the same correction factor, you can get a closer idea of how two cars compare. Sure, dynos can be calibrated differently, and some read higher than others, just like certain tracks are reputed to be slower/faster than others. One thing people tend to say is that different drivers can skew numbers, but trap speed tends to be pretty consistent.
Anyway, I'm running around 75 lbs lighter now and I've got the Flashpro. Hope to hit the track Sunday if the weather holds out. Should have the power to weight to see 104 mph. I'll try the base map and then switch to the latest tune from Vit.
In my opinion its two things that will open this motor up. When you see TBmotoworx and evans racing now doing J series motors and making 400 whp it not just because they are upping the compression to 15:1.
I also thought they were punching those motors out to ridiculous displacement like 3.9 or 4.1 motors, but someone posted on another board that when the tb car broke 400 wheel it was only 3.5L. To get to the point they are doing it with:
1. Cams
2. Reving the motors out to the moon
I honestly think someone could have a daily driven 320-340 hp J series if they built the thing to rev to 8200 and we figured out how to run a pretty agressive cam and the owner was ok with having a little bit of a lumpy idle.
Anyone know what TB or evans is reving their car to?
Agreed. I don't know where Evans car is revving to but on their Dyno graph, they stop revving just over 8000 RPM. They just recently ran 10.61 @129 in this car and are changing a few things to go 9s.
Thing is, our cams are so mild that we barely get to use any of the potential of our relatively good flowing heads. A lift of < .400 really doesn't utilize much in terms of CFM. Stock heads flow near 275 CFM at .500 if I'm not mistaken, but we don't see any of that given our cam specs. Even if we were able to throw some .410 or .420" of lift, I'm sure that would greatly increase power.
That's a silly notion. The only way to compare two setups that are not next to each other is by using corrections. If I have a boosted setup running 105mph traps at 5000 ft, and your NA setup runs 105 at Englishtown on a 10 degree day, if you don't understand DA, you'll think they are comparable setups. Yes, they ran the same mph, but if they ever meet and race each other, regardless of if at a high elevation or low, it is not a comparable match in performance.
I'm not trying to say, oh you REALLY ran a 105 corrected - I don't care about that, but trying to see what factors influenced the performance on that run.
In Anx example, it is a farily comparable scenario to my elevation and temp, which gives me the ability to at least get a rough idea of how much power or how much faster his car is than mine. Does that make sense?
Omg you so miss what im saying... O.k lol... Lets just leave it with what you say to not go back n forth about DA and all kinds of crap that im really not interested about.... I track at a bunch of different drag strip on the east coast i still dont care for DA.. My times in jersey was about .7 sec difference.. I still dont care about DA.. You do lets just leave it at that..
Ill NEVER EVER care what my car run somewhere else based on DA or whatever the reason for using the calculator... It will never ever make me actually go faster so im not going to tweek numbers i cant in real life.. Some people care to to calculate for "a more accurate time"... Im the type if you have a 1000whp car n somehow ran a 17 sec then the dang car ran 17's... I like raw numbers all the other crap doesnt concern me... My car ran 14.8 with pcd.. Im sure i can say its faster "if".... I dont care, its 14.8 til i run faster.. Technicalities bore me lol
You just don't comprehend it then...lol. But I think we should agree to disagree.
I completely understand what you are saying - At 5000 feet, if you trap 105, that's what you trapped. I get that.
You just can't seem to understand that variables at play will result in a different trap speed and E.T., but that's ok because the technical aspect bores you.
Grand_hustle17 - I agree with you 100% if you are racing other people at the same place, same time. When comparing stock to stock, or mod to mod, those calculation come in handy to see what is working and what is not. I get what your saying, I ran this and this is my time. To be as consistent as possible when comparing out of state time, DA is a huge factor. You can see examples all over this forum. Some guys stock run better then other guys with bolt ons. Do those guys have factory freaks, maybe. Most likely it was the conditions at the track. I think we all get it... you dont care to run the numbers, and that's cool.
screaminz28 - Your stats are also good. It keeps things consistent but as Grand may argue, there is the driver mod and track. I have seen guy run times at certain tracks here in FL that I know they would never run at my home track. DA is usually pretty consistent with the runs. Some tracks are faster then others. Mine, level to the 330 mark, then at least 5% uphill grade to 1000ft. Where I have seen other local tracks that are 5% grade downhill the whole damn track, and FL is pretty much the flattest state you can get
I just like to go to the track and run what i brought lol.. If i wanted to know how it ran in FL ill go there and run.. Anyways, back on topic lmao... Ive been reading all over the place and i think that simone guy did a J32a3 with type S cams and some ported runners and saw some really nice numbers... That may be less expensive than regrounds
I just like to go to the track and run what i brought lol.. If i wanted to know how it ran in FL ill go there and run.. Anyways, back on topic lmao... Ive been reading all over the place and i think that simone guy did a J32a3 with type S cams and some ported runners and saw some really nice numbers... That may be less expensive than regrounds
He has an Accord though, and was working with the factory J30a5. He swapped over the J32a3 (TL motor) alone and made ~20+whp/tq at every RPM in the powerband. He had ported runners installed on his J30a5 prior to the J32a3.
Ported runners are definitely cheaper than regrinds but they have absolutely nothing to do with your bent valve problem. Believe it or not, ported runners plus Type S cams will bring you very close to the price of regrinds. Type S cams are like $450 now, unless you find a good deal on them.
here the issue with the regrinds you must get new springs and retainer (even though they say u can run stage 1 with stock) so tack on an additional 400-500.
I know this doesn't necessarily work but does anyone know the cam specs of whats being offered right now?
Lets say we go with a cam spec that is working on other single cam honda motors. If that was the case we would go with a cam that was something like this:
Int: 260 dur 11.1 lift
Ext: 242 dur 11.0 lift
When you get a bisi or web grind what are you getting?
I know this doesn't necessarily work but does anyone know the cam specs of whats being offered right now?
Lets say we go with a cam spec that is working on other single cam honda motors. If that was the case we would go with a cam that was something like this:
Int: 260 dur 11.1 lift
Ext: 242 dur 11.0 lift
When you get a bisi or web grind what are you getting?
You'd have to ask bisi I got their lift and duration specs for their stage 1 cams from them a while back when I was considering them they did say that the intake closing ABDC is proprietary though and wouldn't give me that info
They do alter the profile on all lobes as well, vtec, non-vtec and exhaust
I don't think anyone even knows the duration or intake closing ABDC of stock cams yet so it's hard to compare without that information at all, we can calculate stock lift but duration and intake losing ABDC has to be measured off cam, while getting duration can be done with a cam out of the car the intake closing ABDC has to be done with it installed in the car
how is your build going?
I had a questions for you...
do you recommend a j35a5 or a j32a3 short block for a swap?
/end quote
What are your needs?
Some things to think about:
Are you wanting 3.2l or 3.5l?
Ask yourself if its a simply NA swap with no mods done to the bottom end. If so, then go with the j35a5 and fly cut the head if desired to regain compression to 11:1 or higher, but it isn't required.
If going strictly the oem route then obtain some TL-S heads and leave them stock...or....if ambitious then port them. Regardless if stock or ported heads, think about running some high duration cams and enjoy it. If you want a reground cam, running high lift will only accompany so much. If going reground cam over 420 lift and 265 duration (AKA a Bisi labeled j32a3 stage II regrind and above or stock j35a8 and above) and/or if you want over-rev protection then obtain some stiffer springs and a set of titanium retainers. I recommend a even higher duration for a TL-S head on a 3.5L short block though by going custom...but you must have 11.25:1or higher compression to match from experience to make the 325hp mark, so if using the j35a5 block then highly consider decking and/or swapping pistons and decking to accomplish this. TL-S factory springs are good, but not good enough for a severe over-rev. Valves will contact pistons and bend at 7500rpm all day long. Make it worth your effort or buy a bone stock j35a8 and tranny and swap them in as a pair and make 300 with bolt-ons.
He has an Accord though, and was working with the factory J30a5. He swapped over the J32a3 (TL motor) alone and made ~20+whp/tq at every RPM in the powerband. He had ported runners installed on his J30a5 prior to the J32a3.
Ported runners are definitely cheaper than regrinds but they have absolutely nothing to do with your bent valve problem. Believe it or not, ported runners plus Type S cams will bring you very close to the price of regrinds. Type S cams are like $450 now, unless you find a good deal on them.
Honestly all that "light and hollow" thing i read on the type S cams really doesnt spark my interest... I was gonna get another set of J32a3 cams and reground.. I believe i found a set on car-part for $100... That or $100 per.. Either way less.. And iirc i wouldnt need springs and retainers..... Right?
I personally only extended my redline due to the fact that I continue to make power up to 7k+. I shift around 7.2 and redline is set at 7.4
Really no point to run that high if the car is only going to fall on it's face. Basically I set redline/shift point to stay in my power band. Sure you knew this, but I have seen other rev out to 7.4+ and they dont even make power up there.
Yea i use to see that often in the maxima community... Some people just wanna rev out just to say the rev to xxxx rpms which is dumb lol.. I kinda wanna go with the RL cams also.. Just havent seen any numbers on em
I can dig lol.. If i go to 7400 im gonna bang off rev limiter with no fcuks given lmao... I drive like a granny when i daily but come time to line it up.. Track or street and im going buck wild roffl
^ its in my accord. J30a5 with PnP j35a8 head. Now I am waiting for camshaft gears to come out. (see image below) TB Motorworkx has been using them and rev their car up to 11k
10-21-2014, 08:45 PM
