Any aftermarket drop in pistons available ?
03-30-2017, 05:55 PM
#1
Any aftermarket drop in pistons available ?
Since I hurt my engine I installed a stock engine and I'm getting bored driving a stock engine.
I've saved up some bread to either start with another car or do another build.
So my first thing is to see if theres any high performance pistons available without having to go the full custom one off high dollar route.
I have seen p2r dnj pistons but as cheap as they are I'm sure they are just as weak if not weaker than stock.
I've saved up some bread to either start with another car or do another build.
So my first thing is to see if theres any high performance pistons available without having to go the full custom one off high dollar route.
I have seen p2r dnj pistons but as cheap as they are I'm sure they are just as weak if not weaker than stock.
03-31-2017, 05:38 PM
#5
Transmission Pro
Why do you need aftermarket pistons if you're planning on staying naturally aspirated?
The recipe for building higher compression Honda engines is to take pistons from the version of an engine series that has the shortest stroke, and highest static compression ratio.
Then installing them in a block with a crank/rod combination that has a longer stroke.
Heads up. Nearly every single automaker on the planet designs engines so that they can be used for as large of a time, generation span as possible. They also design them knowing that with each iteration of the engine throughout the multiple generations of vehicles, that they will have to 'somehow' magically have to get better and better (make more power) as time progresses.
So this is where you might want to consider selecting a crank/rod combination from one of the cheaper oem stroked out engines.
The shorter the stroke, the larger the dome.
The recipe for building higher compression Honda engines is to take pistons from the version of an engine series that has the shortest stroke, and highest static compression ratio.
Then installing them in a block with a crank/rod combination that has a longer stroke.
Heads up. Nearly every single automaker on the planet designs engines so that they can be used for as large of a time, generation span as possible. They also design them knowing that with each iteration of the engine throughout the multiple generations of vehicles, that they will have to 'somehow' magically have to get better and better (make more power) as time progresses.
So this is where you might want to consider selecting a crank/rod combination from one of the cheaper oem stroked out engines.
The shorter the stroke, the larger the dome.
03-31-2017, 06:01 PM
#6
My engine really hasn't ever spent much of its life NA.
Is it out of the question, no of course its not but,After talking with people,I don't think there is enough power to be had,and not have it a full race engine.
Sure I would like to make it na but the power I want out of it I really don't think it would be much of a street engine.
I don't drive the car for long miles and my job is about 2.5 miles from the house and track is about 10-15 minutes away I still would rather boost it one way or another again the right way this time and still be able to drive it around.
The engine had 3.7 crank,rods,and 90mm pistons all oem parts in my 3.2 block with just about everything else you could do to it with either 125 shot or 8psi supercharged.
Looking to start with stronger pistons before deciding how hard it will be pushed.
Would like to be over 500 this time,and done right.
Ears are open for knowledge.
Is it out of the question, no of course its not but,After talking with people,I don't think there is enough power to be had,and not have it a full race engine.
Sure I would like to make it na but the power I want out of it I really don't think it would be much of a street engine.
I don't drive the car for long miles and my job is about 2.5 miles from the house and track is about 10-15 minutes away I still would rather boost it one way or another again the right way this time and still be able to drive it around.
The engine had 3.7 crank,rods,and 90mm pistons all oem parts in my 3.2 block with just about everything else you could do to it with either 125 shot or 8psi supercharged.
Looking to start with stronger pistons before deciding how hard it will be pushed.
Would like to be over 500 this time,and done right.
Ears are open for knowledge.
03-31-2017, 07:41 PM
#7
My engine really hasn't ever spent much of its life NA.
Is it out of the question, no of course its not but,After talking with people,I don't think there is enough power to be had,and not have it a full race engine.
Sure I would like to make it na but the power I want out of it I really don't think it would be much of a street engine.
I don't drive the car for long miles and my job is about 2.5 miles from the house and track is about 10-15 minutes away I still would rather boost it one way or another again the right way this time and still be able to drive it around.
The engine had 3.7 crank,rods,and 90mm pistons all oem parts in my 3.2 block with just about everything else you could do to it with either 125 shot or 8psi supercharged.
Looking to start with stronger pistons before deciding how hard it will be pushed.
Would like to be over 500 this time,and done right.
Ears are open for knowledge.
Is it out of the question, no of course its not but,After talking with people,I don't think there is enough power to be had,and not have it a full race engine.
Sure I would like to make it na but the power I want out of it I really don't think it would be much of a street engine.
I don't drive the car for long miles and my job is about 2.5 miles from the house and track is about 10-15 minutes away I still would rather boost it one way or another again the right way this time and still be able to drive it around.
The engine had 3.7 crank,rods,and 90mm pistons all oem parts in my 3.2 block with just about everything else you could do to it with either 125 shot or 8psi supercharged.
Looking to start with stronger pistons before deciding how hard it will be pushed.
Would like to be over 500 this time,and done right.
Ears are open for knowledge.
If you want to do it right, crank and rod bearing clearances will also need to be checked and sized appropriately.
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04-01-2017, 08:26 AM
#9
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
Your first engine wasn't tuned was it? This time, throw a J35A3 in there and tune it.
the M90 is pumping pretty hot air in there and you're not cooling it. If you keep the M90 then maybe some nitrous or meth for cooling? Might have to be direct port with the M90.
Gerzand's rotrex supercharger seems like the best supercharger setup as it doesn't run nearly as hot and is more efficient.
the M90 is pumping pretty hot air in there and you're not cooling it. If you keep the M90 then maybe some nitrous or meth for cooling? Might have to be direct port with the M90.
Gerzand's rotrex supercharger seems like the best supercharger setup as it doesn't run nearly as hot and is more efficient.
04-01-2017, 08:55 PM
#10
You could strip down the block and take it to a good machine shop to do all of the measurements for you. They can make recommendations about the bore conditions and if it needs to be oversized or just honed. Then you can take specs from one of us (who have used Andy Gerzand's specs) and tailor it to your preferred C/R the the bore specified by the shop.
If you want to do it right, crank and rod bearing clearances will also need to be checked and sized appropriately.
If you want to do it right, crank and rod bearing clearances will also need to be checked and sized appropriately.
Sounds like that will cost 4x the price as it would if I rebuilt it again myself.
I have the engine all tore down except the crank is still in it.
I haven't had any time to check bores taper or if out of round yet but since 2 pistons and broke skirts I would assume they are out of round.And since the block was bored 90mm I would probably have to use another block.
I have a pretty simple question for engine builders.
I can build a engine no problem using all stock stuff but,now that the crank and rods are used and beat for 8k miles.
what crank and rod work work needs to be done ?
And will I have to use custom bearing sizes or will I be able to just polish the crank and use stock size bearing again ?
Your first engine wasn't tuned was it? This time, throw a J35A3 in there and tune it.
the M90 is pumping pretty hot air in there and you're not cooling it. If you keep the M90 then maybe some nitrous or meth for cooling? Might have to be direct port with the M90.
Gerzand's rotrex supercharger seems like the best supercharger setup as it doesn't run nearly as hot and is more efficient.
the M90 is pumping pretty hot air in there and you're not cooling it. If you keep the M90 then maybe some nitrous or meth for cooling? Might have to be direct port with the M90.
Gerzand's rotrex supercharger seems like the best supercharger setup as it doesn't run nearly as hot and is more efficient.
Seamed to do ok but, got in trouble driving on the street with the car so I made the car mostly stock,and when I put a stock exhaust back on that was it.
5 pistons with broken ring lands,2 pistons with broken skirts.
The dezod setup is in the budget this time though.
You must be the best engine builder out there,with dozens of people putting you on a pedestal ,pumping you up or some shit.
Even if you were and you were the last engine builder I wouldn't give a shit DB.
I mean act normal or just keep the typing somewhere else.
Last edited by richardparker; 04-01-2017 at 09:00 PM.
04-01-2017, 09:52 PM
#11
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These are the specs I was following for a j32 motor. Should be around 9.5 CR with a longer stroke motor CR will increase. I think these are Andy specs, but its only a 89mm bore. Don't have too much detail on a 90mm bore piston. sorry
maybe youngone would know
04-02-2017, 05:35 AM
#12
So basically let a shop do the whole build this time ?
Sounds like that will cost 4x the price as it would if I rebuilt it again myself.
I have the engine all tore down except the crank is still in it.
I haven't had any time to check bores taper or if out of round yet but since 2 pistons and broke skirts I would assume they are out of round.And since the block was bored 90mm I would probably have to use another block.
I have a pretty simple question for engine builders.
I can build a engine no problem using all stock stuff but,now that the crank and rods are used and beat for 8k miles.
what crank and rod work work needs to be done ?
And will I have to use custom bearing sizes or will I be able to just polish the crank and use stock size bearing again ?
Sounds like that will cost 4x the price as it would if I rebuilt it again myself.
I have the engine all tore down except the crank is still in it.
I haven't had any time to check bores taper or if out of round yet but since 2 pistons and broke skirts I would assume they are out of round.And since the block was bored 90mm I would probably have to use another block.
I have a pretty simple question for engine builders.
I can build a engine no problem using all stock stuff but,now that the crank and rods are used and beat for 8k miles.
what crank and rod work work needs to be done ?
And will I have to use custom bearing sizes or will I be able to just polish the crank and use stock size bearing again ?
The build depends on goals. If you want high horsepower, the clearances have to be sized appropriately. There are rules of thumb for clearances. If you just want a little over stock, then you can use the stock specification and just use the bearing sizes based on the codes stamped on your block/crank. How much boost were you running to break skirts?
It's hard to say if the crank and rods are reusable without some inspection....
Its not impossible to do things yourself without a lot of learning, but in the end, it may be cheaper to get a shop to do it. I spent a lot of money in the learning process by listening to the wrong people, had to buy parts twice and also purchased tools to do the job.
I would ping Andy for advice, he is VERY helpful.
For tuning, Dom is doing a great job for me.
Last edited by KN_TL; 04-02-2017 at 05:41 AM.
04-04-2017, 08:43 PM
#14
A new block is about $700 shipped. If it's already @ 90mm I wouldn't bother with it.
The build depends on goals. If you want high horsepower, the clearances have to be sized appropriately. There are rules of thumb for clearances. If you just want a little over stock, then you can use the stock specification and just use the bearing sizes based on the codes stamped on your block/crank. How much boost were you running to break skirts?
It's hard to say if the crank and rods are reusable without some inspection....
Its not impossible to do things yourself without a lot of learning, but in the end, it may be cheaper to get a shop to do it. I spent a lot of money in the learning process by listening to the wrong people, had to buy parts twice and also purchased tools to do the job.
I would ping Andy for advice, he is VERY helpful.
For tuning, Dom is doing a great job for me.
The build depends on goals. If you want high horsepower, the clearances have to be sized appropriately. There are rules of thumb for clearances. If you just want a little over stock, then you can use the stock specification and just use the bearing sizes based on the codes stamped on your block/crank. How much boost were you running to break skirts?
It's hard to say if the crank and rods are reusable without some inspection....
Its not impossible to do things yourself without a lot of learning, but in the end, it may be cheaper to get a shop to do it. I spent a lot of money in the learning process by listening to the wrong people, had to buy parts twice and also purchased tools to do the job.
I would ping Andy for advice, he is VERY helpful.
For tuning, Dom is doing a great job for me.
Not sure actual compression before boost but,it had 240psi per cylinder ,then 8psi was probably too much specially untuned and nothing to cool the engine.
Got a used engine,I have the whole weekend off this week and I'm going to strip it down and drop off to get bored just trying to figure if I should go 90mm again wich worked pretty good or something a little smaller to handle more boost.
I appreciate the direction man.
04-04-2017, 08:46 PM
#15
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It was showing 8psi on the gauge
Not sure actual compression before boost but,it had 240psi per cylinder ,then 8psi was probably too much specially untuned and nothing to cool the engine.
Got a used engine,I have the whole weekend off this week and I'm going to strip it down and drop off to get bored just trying to figure if I should go 90mm again wich worked pretty good or something a little smaller to handle more boost.
I appreciate the direction man.
Not sure actual compression before boost but,it had 240psi per cylinder ,then 8psi was probably too much specially untuned and nothing to cool the engine.
Got a used engine,I have the whole weekend off this week and I'm going to strip it down and drop off to get bored just trying to figure if I should go 90mm again wich worked pretty good or something a little smaller to handle more boost.
I appreciate the direction man.
04-04-2017, 11:55 PM
#16
I just ordered JE pistons 10:1 for 90mm bore. They'll make whatever you want, just send an old piston and they'll measure. $1050 or so is what I'm paying. Also spoke with a couple engine builders and all seem to have their opinions on bearing clearances, some say super tight and some say leave slop for boost/heat. From what I understand there are no aftermarket bearings for these, have to select from oem colors.
04-05-2017, 07:14 AM
#17
It was showing 8psi on the gauge
Not sure actual compression before boost but,it had 240psi per cylinder ,then 8psi was probably too much specially untuned and nothing to cool the engine.
Got a used engine,I have the whole weekend off this week and I'm going to strip it down and drop off to get bored just trying to figure if I should go 90mm again wich worked pretty good or something a little smaller to handle more boost.
Not sure actual compression before boost but,it had 240psi per cylinder ,then 8psi was probably too much specially untuned and nothing to cool the engine.
Got a used engine,I have the whole weekend off this week and I'm going to strip it down and drop off to get bored just trying to figure if I should go 90mm again wich worked pretty good or something a little smaller to handle more boost.
I was only running 8psi when I cracked a ringland. It doesn't take much detonation to break these pistons.
My approach was not to bore out to a specific value like 90mm. If the out of round condition extends beyond that and you order before finding this out, then you will be screwed. I would purchase a set of bore gauges and micrometers and do the measurements or like I said before, have a machine shop do it for you. Then base your purchase based on that.
04-09-2017, 06:01 PM
#19
I just ordered JE pistons 10:1 for 90mm bore. They'll make whatever you want, just send an old piston and they'll measure. $1050 or so is what I'm paying. Also spoke with a couple engine builders and all seem to have their opinions on bearing clearances, some say super tight and some say leave slop for boost/heat. From what I understand there are no aftermarket bearings for these, have to select from oem colors.
Are they going to send you a spec sheet ?
If I sent them a 3.7 piston to be copied could they figure a 12.5 piston off of that ?
Anyway,
Got the engine striped down today.
Pic was from ealier. I just came back in from cleaning it up to transport it in the am to the machine shop.
Just have to figure what pistons I want this time
Still thinking I want 90mm again.
Either want low compression and supercharger or 12.5 and nitrous.
Thoughts on either combo?
04-09-2017, 08:11 PM
#21
When are your pistons going to be finished ?
Are they going to send you a spec sheet ?
If I sent them a 3.7 piston to be copied could they figure a 12.5 piston off of that ?
Anyway,
Got the engine striped down today.
Pic was from ealier. I just came back in from cleaning it up to transport it in the am to the machine shop.
Just have to figure what pistons I want this time
Still thinking I want 90mm again.
Either want low compression and supercharger or 12.5 and nitrous.
Thoughts on either combo?
Are they going to send you a spec sheet ?
If I sent them a 3.7 piston to be copied could they figure a 12.5 piston off of that ?
Anyway,
Got the engine striped down today.
Pic was from ealier. I just came back in from cleaning it up to transport it in the am to the machine shop.
Just have to figure what pistons I want this time
Still thinking I want 90mm again.
Either want low compression and supercharger or 12.5 and nitrous.
Thoughts on either combo?
12.5 seems high for pump gas. My tuner guy said 9:1 if turbo and pump gas. Chose 10:1 because I run premium/120 mix, 50/50. Had a supercharger on the current 3.7, 9psi and it was 350whp. Responded like a complete slug with AEM and custom tune, I was not impressed. Compared to the turbo it was a pile of garbage!
Last edited by 3.7dude; 04-09-2017 at 08:16 PM.
04-09-2017, 08:34 PM
#23
I liked the nitrous over the charger except for the $50 a day and the 30 minute drive away to fill to play.
How much boost are you running with the turbo compared to the charger ?
Ever max out the charger before switching to the turbo ?
Also was the rest of your motor stock?
Cams,head work.
350 seams low for 9psi
How much boost are you running with the turbo compared to the charger ?
Ever max out the charger before switching to the turbo ?
Also was the rest of your motor stock?
Cams,head work.
350 seams low for 9psi
Last edited by richardparker; 04-09-2017 at 08:41 PM.
04-09-2017, 09:22 PM
#24
Motor is completely stock. I wanted absolute reliability and the tuner kept it super conservative. Knock on wood, no issues for 2+yrs. 9psi on supercharger (never changed pulleys) and yes I'm sure there was more power available via tune... at the expense of reliability though and wasn't going to leave that to fate. 15psi now on 6266 Precision turbo, 390whp. Every tuner I speak with says that's very low hp for 15psi. I also run w buddies who do 380hp at 7-9psi w their stock computer and wonder why they throw a rod through the block.
Supercharger was very sluggish spool compared to turbo. Turbo is nice and snappy.
Supercharger was very sluggish spool compared to turbo. Turbo is nice and snappy.
04-10-2017, 09:58 AM
#26
Motor is completely stock. I wanted absolute reliability and the tuner kept it super conservative. Knock on wood, no issues for 2+yrs. 9psi on supercharger (never changed pulleys) and yes I'm sure there was more power available via tune... at the expense of reliability though and wasn't going to leave that to fate. 15psi now on 6266 Precision turbo, 390whp. Every tuner I speak with says that's very low hp for 15psi. I also run w buddies who do 380hp at 7-9psi w their stock computer and wonder why they throw a rod through the block.
Supercharger was very sluggish spool compared to turbo. Turbo is nice and snappy.
Supercharger was very sluggish spool compared to turbo. Turbo is nice and snappy.
04-10-2017, 10:49 AM
#27
Yes it's not huge hp, but throwing a rod or whatever sucks 10x more driving in sand than on asphalt. Hi speed, I see your tag says 500hp fully built. What all did you do to the block/heads?
04-10-2017, 10:14 PM
#29
The heads are stock J32 with Supertech SS valves and springs. The block is stock (unsleeved) with Wiseco 9:5-1 comp Pistons and Pauler connecting rods. The low comp has made boost a lot more fun. I can see how sand rails are harder on the engine and transmission, than street cars.
04-10-2017, 11:49 PM
#30
The heads are stock J32 with Supertech SS valves and springs. The block is stock (unsleeved) with Wiseco 9:5-1 comp Pistons and Pauler connecting rods. The low comp has made boost a lot more fun. I can see how sand rails are harder on the engine and transmission, than street cars.
btw, I don't know that sand is harder on the engine, problem is we can't just call Uber for a lift if something happens...
04-12-2017, 06:55 PM
#31
Is the 3.7 your running now a bored and stroked combo or a actual 3.7 engine ?
If its bored and stroked what block and heads are you running ?
I'm wanting to know what my 3.7 build had for compression.
It had j37a1 crank,rods,and pistons with j32a2 block,heads,and cometic gasket
Also does anyone know how many +cc's to make it 12.5:1 and how many -cc's to make it 9.0:1 ?
If its bored and stroked what block and heads are you running ?
I'm wanting to know what my 3.7 build had for compression.
It had j37a1 crank,rods,and pistons with j32a2 block,heads,and cometic gasket
Also does anyone know how many +cc's to make it 12.5:1 and how many -cc's to make it 9.0:1 ?
Last edited by richardparker; 04-12-2017 at 06:58 PM.
04-12-2017, 11:38 PM
#32
Curious,how do you control the tune? How long have you been running 500hp? Sorry for the dumb questions but seems to me that 15psi can be 200hp or 500hp depending upon fuel and timing control. I hear a lot about boost and what it equals in hp, my suspicion is that the closer an engine runs to detonation the higher the hp (and chance of failure). Shooting for reliable here. Plan for the new build is 3.7a1: rods, pistons, sleeved block, arp head studs and p2r springs. The guy tuning is well known and tunes a ton of high $$ cars so I tend to trust his judgement on limits. He always asks what I want for hp and my response is "get as much as you can so that you're confident your wife and kids aren't hiking across the sand because the engine blew up."
btw, I don't know that sand is harder on the engine, problem is we can't just call Uber for a lift if something happens...
btw, I don't know that sand is harder on the engine, problem is we can't just call Uber for a lift if something happens...
As far as the tune, I'm using Hondata flash pro and an 07 Auto ECU. I have been running 16-17PSI since my engine build last year, so my feeling is the engine is closer to 600 WHP right now. I feel like 550-600 WHP is the sweet spot for the TL, around town you take it easy 5-7 psi, freeway speeds hit 17 psi and leave people like their on the brakes. My experience has been the TL handles the power very well and the LSD is a big part of that.
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