air fuel ratio
 

i have a ct supercharger on a 05 tl. i recently put the aem digital air fuel ratio
gauge, so when i wot it the numbers read 10 flat so im guessing thats way
too rich, anyway i spoke to comptech a couple weeks ago about a high
boost pulley they told me i would need to find some way to add more fuel, but now im guessing im runing rich so would it be possible to right the hbp

Do you like to gamble? Because that's what you're doing putting the HBP on your car. ESPECIALLY with the ACM unit.

There are many other factors that come into play when adding ANY amount of boost to your engine. Fuel, ignition, knock... etc. Knock is going to be your biggest killer. Take a peek at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking and decide if you want to take that risk.

If indeed you plan on running the HBP, BEFORE you get the HBP get a knock monitor/management unit. These engines knock in stock form and are precipitated by adding more boost. Some have run the HBP and had no troubles, but MANY others have had catastrophic engine failure. Many of the others have even run the F/IC and had a 'tune' for the car and still managed to blow the engine.

Read: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/knock-monitor-779106/ for more info on knock monitor/management units.

My words of advice, get an F/IC and get a tune for your current setup. Screw the additional HP unless you're fully prepared to drop the extra cash for a full engine build + additional management units (J&S Safeguard, water/meth, O2 skew module and more...) immediately. FYI, this stuff gets spendy REAL quick. Trust me. And there is no DIY on the majority of this stuff. You need to be equipped with a strong knowledge of electronics and not to mention what it takes to run a high-HP, boosted engine reliably.

Sounds like your pegging out your A/F's. I would agree with getting the FIC for an ECU control. As I recall CT just uses some sort of box that tricks the ECU. I forgot what it was called but FIC with a tune would be the best bet. Water Meth is a nice add on for the TL also.

i dont really know what pegging meas but im in the process of getting it
tune right now ive already order the aem fic and about to get the plug and
play harness, the bad part is the shop i go to told me it would be around
750 dollors to tune the car, im still trying to recover from what i spent on
the supercharger, anyways i do have the meth kit, and honestly i dont really feel
a difference.

The meth kit will make a diff after you get tuned. You can plat with timing lot more. Pegging would be maxing out. On AEM i have seen them just sty pegged at 10 if you are running super rich.

thats because you arent tuned. what meth kit are you running? and i would read bmeyers post again.

stay away unless you got the $$ to play

im using the aem universal one right now. comptech is a really good company
but the power that comes with there supercharger on the stock pulley
is not enought power, or maybe its just the heat soak cause this texas heat
right now is crazy. when i leave to work every morning the car seems to have alot of power but after 15 or 20 min of driving, the engine seems like it just lost two cylinders. im also looking into getting a transmission cooler in the next week or so.

You're probably losing power because your engine is knocking so bad, as well as the fueling issue. You've got other issues you need to sort out before putting the HBP on. Adding the HBP in your current state WILL blow your engine. The HBP will increase your IAT and exacerbate the situation.

You need to invest in a good OBD-II scanner or an Innovate LM-2 and find out what your engine is doing when it's down on power. You'll likely see one of 2 things... your ignition timing is being pulled back to single digits or less, or your intake temps are near that of your coolant temp.

I just need to clarify before I can recommend anything.

So you do have a functional meth kit right now? Is it pure meth or a mix?

Where did you start out on the jetting? Did you ramp your way up or just start off big?

The meth could be making it go rich. If it's jetted too rich AND you're running a mix, power will be way down.

Don't forget that running waaay too rich can cause knock too. It's not that well known but it's very real.

If you're pegged at 10:1, you don't know what your true AF ratio is. You could be washing down the cylinders and diluting the oil. Chances are you're causing excessive engine wear.

I need to know where you are with the meth. If you're running rich because of meth you can probably safely go with the HBP. If there are any of about 10 different things going on, you could blow the engine.

Two things, figure out where you are with the mixture before you add the HBP.

Do something about the mixture before your engine is toast.

Are you still running the stock cats? I know opening up the exhaust made a big difference for me. With the hi flow cats, j pipe and cat back exhaust, I made an extra 60 hp and my heat issues almost went away. I also think you should look for a gas station that sells race gas and do a mix. I did this for awhile last summer and it helped.

As far as the 10-1 AFR I'm not sure why but like IHC said you can mess up the oil by getting too much gas in it.

Are you still running the stock cats? I know opening up the exhaust made a big difference for me. With the hi flow cats, j pipe and cat back exhaust, I made an extra 60 hp and my heat issues almost went away. I also think you should look for a gas station that sells race gas and do a mix. I did this for awhile last summer and it helped.

As far as the 10-1 AFR I'm not sure why but like IHC said you can mess up the oil by getting too much gas in it.

what causes the engine to knock and how whould i prevent that. i have a apexi i-moni, it shows me the iat temp and the coolant temp. my iat temp right now reads between 140 and 160 but after boosting it it jumps to almost
180. till the meth sprays then it drops about 30 degrees.

yes i have a fuctional meth kit right now its the aem one, they gave me 3 nozzle and im using the middle one, im also running 50\50 mix meth and water
it has a progressive controler i set it to start spraying at 2 psi, and about the
max spray the lowest on the controller is 7 but im not even boosting 7 right now,

i was already pegging out my air fuel ratio even before i install the meth kit.
my whole intention of the meth kit was trying to keep the intake cool cause i
really hate heat soak shit.

OMG 180? WOW thats bad. Whats the outside temperature when you hit 180? How hard are you pushing the car?

When is it between 140 and 160? While cruising or at idle in traffic?

I saw IATs as high as 155 in 105 degree heat while sitting in traffic for 25 minutes.

I know with the turbo in 95 degree heat, my IATs while cruising are around 110 i think

If I get into the throttle hard for a few hard pulls the IATs are around 120-125 in 95 degree heat.

Have you done Inaccurates Ultimate cooling mod? It will really help to get that hot air out of the engine bay

You need to lean it waaay out and then tune the meth.

Properly set up, the meth should take 180 degree air and take it down to ~100F or less. That's with pure meth so you won't get as much cooling with the mix but you should still see more than 30 degrees.

A good guess is you're losing 50+ hp in the tune.

Could the reason hes not seeing those huge drops in the IATs with the meth because his pump is not working at 100%?

He said the the lowest setting on the controller for the max psi is 7. Since he doesnt see anywhere near 7psi (maybe 4psi?), and its a progressive controller, he may only be seeing 30-50% of the max pump pressure?

If he used a larger nozzle with only 50% of the max pump pressure, would that help his situation?

For sure. More meth combined with a stronger mix of meth will greatly reduce those temps. 30 degrees from 180 shows he's not injecting much at all and unfortunately he can't since it was very rich before the meth. I would expect 60-80 degrees from a good setup. If you supplement a little fuel with meth you can see it drop even more.

213swampy, What was the largest size nozzle that came with your kit? Im thinking it may be a 675ml nozzle.

I have the snow kit and they told me that I should start with a 375ml nozzle and work from there. Since your not seeing enough boost to activate the max pressure from the pump and utilize that the max ML per Min for your nozzle, then throw in the biggest nozzle you have and watch the IATs.

That sounds like a very good plan. The only reason it might not work right now is that he's so rich already. Once he gets that taken care of, he will probably see a big drop in IATs and a gain in power with the setup you suggested.

Good Info :thumbsup:

Did he say he was holding at 10 throughout the entire wot? If he hits 10 flat as soon as he goes wot then the a/f adjusts itself, isnt that ok?

My car hits 10 flat as soon as I go wot but adjusts itself immediately after. Bigger injectors dumping all that fuel?

Swampy, what does the a/f look like throughout the entire rpm range?

it more around 176 or so but thats pretty close to 180 after boosting it
im in texas the temp for last coulple weeks is been in the high 90s and 100s. when im at idle its around 160 and when im crusing its somewhere
between 140 or 150, i do alot of city driving but when i get on the freeway
i see the temp drop down to around 130. i push it pretty hard usaully from a dead stop i pretty wot it tru first and maybe haft of second gear.

well for example when the iat temp is in 150 range i would get on the gas
till i hit the set boost on the proggressive controller to start spraying which is what i believe is 3 psi i see it drop to 105 or so then it jump back up real quick to the 140s and slowly
rising till i get in the 150 to 160 range.

the aem kit came with 3 nozzle the lowest was .155, then .315 and the highest was .630, im using the .315 right now cause the instruction had
a range of horsepower chart and what nozzle i should for my horsepower
range.

as soon as i dump the throttle it reads like 10.9 then after first gear
it would read 10 flat but thats from a dead stop. when im crusing and
dump the gas it would read 10 flat all the way through.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_1295.jpg
[IMG][/IMG]

was wondering if this is good place to mount the nozzle.

Too close to the IM. It would be much better at the beginning of the elbow or the pipe before the elbow.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL836.../389908441.jpg

I agree with IHC (I Hate Cars).

As illustrated in the pic above, I would be concerned that the mist pattern has insufficient time/distance to become evenly distributed before encountering the Left/Right split in the manifold. One Bank will be getting the bulk of the output while the other Bank is deprived.

In the pic above, the blue arrows show the mist entering from the 3 o'clock position. Note how the opposite side of the intake tube is deprived of receiving any of the injection. Three cylinders "have", and the other three cylinders "have not".




In the pic below, I would had positioned the nozzle at either 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock. The Left/Right split in the manifold is bilateral along vertical axis (12 and 6 o'clock). The spray pattern from the nozzle is also bilateral along vertical axis of the nozzle (12 and 6 o'clock).

Now, if you place the nozzle at 3 or 9 o'clock, you are really looking at a pattern that is not bilateral. The left side or right side of the air stream will have significantly more injection mixture than the other side as discussed in the pic above.



http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL836.../389853665.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/IMG_1321.jpg

ive just relocate the nozzle today would guys think this a better spot for it

Vastly better. It is still probably not perfectly feeding the left/right halves with equal amounts. But, this is much, much better than having the nozzle in the TB spacer.

The only way to get the injection to be more balanced between the left and right side is to conduct bench testing. This is where you would make a mock assembly with the inlet pipes on a bench. Use a high power leaf blower, blowing thru the pipes, to simulate the intake air of a running engine. Activate the injection system using either water or rubbing alcohol. Do not use pure methanol because it if very toxic to breath. Then, you would observe the mist distribution as it exits the piping right before the TB.

Even the bench testing is not perfect either. If you got the distribution equal, it would be equal just for that intake velocity used during testing. Other velocities could produce an uneven distribution.

A person does what they can, and hopes for the best thereafter :dunno:

I was just thinking about the intake manifold and distribution. I've never looked closely at the TL manifold but what would it take to turn it into an open plenum? All of the factory 2 stage tuning and such is not necessary with the turbo. You could probably pick up a little power and possibly get better distribution with an open plenum. I have no idea if it's possible with this setup or not.

was wondering if running too rich can lose power?

Too rich can always lose power. Lose a lot of power actually.

I'm not saying this in a mean way but you really need to do your homework on forced induction before you hurt your engine.

Agreed. The whole "shoot first, ask questions later" is a really crappy game to play in this type of situation.

become a real PITA like me but read a lot. There are a lot of places on the web to learn this stuff. But nothing will take the place of common sense. If you lack that, then have someone help you.

Stock Fuel Pressure Regulator? Vs sc version
 

I basically have the same setup, Got meth kit as well thinking more power, Even when my methonal kit is off my a/f gauge reads 10.1- 10. @ WOT. Ive planned on tuning and was talking to my mech about my motor swap after replacing blown one. Ofcourse I had nitrous to top the high boost pulley didnt last.. Never the less he mentioned a adjustment screw, which is on the 2nd gen. our theres a washer that compressed making it run richer I assume, Nate said possiblie putting a stock regulator on would run around 11 if im running 10 now.. Ihave a stock regulator Im gonna try to see what it does. I also thought well the meth is making it rich but even when it was off it runs 10.1. Ive heard the FIC Aem and the greddy ultimate are options but after new motor man this car should be a gtr as much as ive paid.. Haaa well Im sure we will will have plenty of members to chime in and break it down. Or bust the idea to pieces I guess..

im not trusting ur AF gauge much...what sensor does it use and where is it mounted?
staying at 10 across ur whole WOT session isn't real life with the ACM....there HAS to be some fluctuation. i dont really believe the 10 at all for the whole time.


and with a stock regulator no way in hell you will run 11, bcs 11 would've been perfect for 4-5 lbs, if 11-11.3 would stay across the board, that wouldve been ideal, but i promise you it wont! not with a stock FPR
im advising you not to rely too much on that AF gauge.

but what do i know <scratching head>

i have the aem air fuel ratio guage i think its the ueago sensor, im not sure if
thats What your talking, also i get really bad gas mileage

yo...
 

Swampy I live in the Lewisville/Denton area...once you get the FIC installed if you need some help let me know...I personally have a 7th gen accord coupe...I have the stock fuel regulator plugged up (basically inactive) and I use a Aero FPR....there is also a SS return fuel line that had to be plumbed in extra as well....I aslo replaced my injectors with the injectors that come from an RDX...I also used the injector clips that come from a Scion...so that the install is plug and play and looks very professional...I think you need to get your fuel pressure and fuel injector situation better first (i wonder what your duty cycle is right now)... then you need to tune the car and afr (have you calibrated the afr?) BEFORE you run the meth...I think running the meth without a proper tune is causing you even more problems because when the meth sprays you go from rich to SUPER RICH...also make sure your changing your oil lots and analyzing all sensor outputs...like IHC and bmeyers said the biggest thing in tuning the car is knowing what is going on and what needs to be done to correct that...just adding fuel and meth and guessing leads to CATO!!!! So get your afr cleaned up without meth first and then get sensor outputs and monitor the engine with one change at a time...and then analyze the results and effect of that change...I have a Mp90 blower setup that I will not put on my car until I have mastered my afr and 02 skewing successfully...I don't want to blow up my motor....hopefully this helps...:thumbsup: