DisgustipatedAP1

Or should I just plan on buying the new JnR standalone ECU if I want a J series tune? Insight and knowledge welcome in this thread, thanks.

Sonnick

If wired correctly, yes. It has been a viable solution for some time now. Not many people have it tuning correctly though as far as I know, so it may be harder than I'm making it out to be. I'm not exactly sure. I have the FI/C and will be tuning shortly. I just need a wideband.

The J&R is a better tuning solution, end of story. It is a FULL standalone system and you CAN advance timing. The only thing the FI/C lacks is the ability to advance timing on these motors. The J&R will give you more power, but with more $$ as well. The choice is yours.

TLdream

iTrader: (4)

Nicely put sonnick. With the stand alone there is much more tunability, and the option to advance or retrard timing.

Yonkers914

iTrader: (1)

you can retard timing with the aem fic u just cant add.

TL Luver

iTrader: (2)

How can I get my car tuned, without purchasing one of these? Maybe a local dyno shop? Thanks op hope you don't mind me posting in here...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^you would have to buy the AEM FIC or the J&R ECU

type-s'er

how much power can be expected to be gained with the aem fic on a type s with intake jpipe and catback? sorry if this has been discussed.

Sonnick

It's hard to say really because there haven't been any before/after dynos. I'd assume within the range of 10-12whp throughout the powerband, maybe 7-8 peak on a 6MT. On a 5AT maybe 8-10whp and 5-6 peak. I'm not really sure. Add the PCDs to that and I'd expect a little more.

DisgustipatedAP1

Is that the gains on top of what the power-adding parts already gain?

So if I have full bolt-ons, I can expect another 10-15 whp on top of that once tuned with FIC?

type-s'er

Yes that's what he is implying... although I highly doubt 15whp

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

in to learn more about AEM FIC....

DisgustipatedAP1

You would be surprised what A/F tuning can do, even without timing adjustment. But it still won't be as nice as something like the JnR ECU that can do everything the right way.

Sonnick

True. The FIC is just much cheaper than the J&R ECU. You can buy it brand new plus wideband AND get tuned for the price of just the J&R ECU itself. But it also can't do what the J&R ECU can.

type-s'er

How much do these cost and where can you buy them?

Rick_TL-S

Interesting. I thought I had read for N/A guys though, that the price of either these weren't really worth the gains unless you were running forced induction already.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I really cant see you gaining much from the fic when your just bolted. What is the a/f on a stock tl under wot? 13.xx?? How much leaner do you want to go just to gain a few hp? The leaner you go the more likely your going to get some knock. If that happens timing will be retarded anyway and youll lose more power then you would of had if you just stayed with the oem ecu

Tuning the fic is rather easy and I actually taught myself. If anyone needs some help let me know

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

as my new e-buddy, pass. if you can't add timing there is zero benefit.

timing is where power is made when it comes to a tune. 10whp makes sense without any timing advance.

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

you can lean a car out a lot if you add the proper timing. timing advance is your knock control. boosted motors can run 12.5's all day long without knock given like an extra 8* over stock.

Sonnick

The ECU adjusts to run richer in most cases. I don't think it's that lean under WOT. Plus the PCDs make the car run richer, don't they? I've heard as high as 16-17 on some setups!

I haven't been getting any carbon buildup on my bumper though like I have in the past. After my 3in catback I haven't really seen any residue. I'm still confident a 10whp/tq gain across the band can be seen with the FIC. That's a large gain in any respect.

Yonkers914

iTrader: (1)

Their is power to be ganied on a bolted j series just through the afr. someone hook a wideband to there car while there fully bolted and tell me their afr, my car was running extremely rich under wot. you will gain a noticeable amount with an afr tune on our cars.

type-s'er

So does this make our NA cars run leaner essentially? sorry for the noob questions. And the one that firs our cars, I assume its the
Fuel & Ignition Controller for Honda & Acura w/MAG Pick Up. part number 30-1911?

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

no you set that stuff with a tune.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

[QUOTE=veggiemonster;13170843]you can lean a car out a lot if you add the proper timing.

agreed

retarding timing will remove knock.

we are talking about n/a tuning here

libert69

iTrader: (7)

16-17 is extremely lean, not rich.

If your not getting carbon buildup on your bumper then your car is running lean. My turbo tl would have black sh't all along the lower bumper after a week of running b/c it was so rich.

DisgustipatedAP1

Yup...

Think about it: Air/Fuel Ratio.

16-17 parts air per 1 part of fuel. 17:1 would be wayyy more air than fuel. Whereas 12:1 Air:Fuel would be running rich.

I would think 16-17:1 is pretty close to the danger zone of running so lean that you're going to damage your engine.

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

sigh.... no. if you have too much timing, yeah, it doesn't ignite the A/F charge, then you get knock. if you don't have enough advance, you get spark knock or full knock. there is a window to shoot for, and you want as much advance as possible pushing that edge. that's where a tune will make power. advance makes more because the a/f charge gets to burn more in the cylinder before the valves open.

boosted tuning follows stricter guidelines in terms of safety when compared to NA. the cylinder temps are through the roof comparedly, so if you can do it on a boosted engine, you can do it to an NA without much worrying. i'm talking stress levels and crap like that.
no. no it won't. lean=fuller burn. running rich and/or no cats will leave your bumper black, NOT lean.
LOL. stoich is 14.7. that is the ideal ratio. under WOT you should be under 12.5's, unless you have some balls and or DGAF about the health of your car. 16-17:1 wouldn't even keep your car idling..

Sonnick

Ahh I always get them confused. I used to have carbon buildup all around my bumper, but every since the 3" catback it hasn't reoccurred.

My current CAI has a hole in it and my new one is getting here today. I should be installing it this weekend I'm assuming my AFR is a little off too because of the hole in my CAI, which is covered with tape.

I think all motor J series are tuned for around 13:1 WOT. That's what I've heard from Paul.

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

i used a quarter with tape on my CAI on my first car lol.

05AV6

In response to the AEM FIC, I have it tuned correctly and running the car well for a couple thousand miles now. I can honestly say very few tuners in the northeast know what they are doing when it comes to tuning on the J series platform, and even fewer know how to setup the FIC to run the car without throwing check engine lights, without blowing 2 sensors, etc. I personally had mine tuned by NVA-AV6 considering he built my motor and did my trans swap, so I was fortunate enough to be in that situation. I had a few tuners try to tune, and most didn't know what they were doing (11.0 AFR at WOT on an NA car, messing with ignition timing, etc)

Sonnick

Kevin, the tune was noticeable throughout the band, correct?
I agree with this. However, most of the problems with tuning is that the FIC is wired incorrectly. But I can understand (and have heard stories) of multiple tuners not knowing how to tune the J.

I have been talking to/emailing a member over on about it, who has successfully tuned a couple J cars who seems to be very knowledgeable about it. He is helping me get the FIC wired correctly (the seller told me it was wired fine and his car was tuned, but he lied ), and once I do so, I will try to tune on my own. He said he would help me get it started and even with some maps, so I'm confident I'll be able to do an 'ok' street tune for the time being.

I won't be able to start probably until the end of fall anyway, so I will have all winter to try to tune it for the spring. Then, I may try to get it tuned and see what happens. I really don't want to take a trip down to VA and have Paul tune it. That would be really impractical for me.