6spd-Gerco's Clutch and Flywheel Install
 

What's up acurazine? I recently changed my TL's clutch, it was long overdue, I suspect this was the original clutch with ~147,000 miles on it. It was fine around town but would slip during wide open throttle runs in-between shifts. It was time to upgrade. :thumbsup

Since my TL's a DD/winter car I went with Excelerate's DD clutch package and I wanted to get away from the dual mass flywheel/unsprung clutch to a more traditional solid flywheel/sprung clutch. Plus XLR8 has great service, fast shipping and communication from Josh.

Since I was able to save money (not time) by doing it myself I replaced the motor and trans mounts, front anti roll bar bushings, end links, rear main seal and all of the required bolts. I was in there so what the heck, it's easier now than later.

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The first order of buisness was to get an engine support to drop the subframe during the trans removal. I shopped around but I didn't see any off the shelf supports I liked so I used some left over 1-1/4" square tubing (3/16" wall) to make an engine support. Here's a picture of me mocking it up, overkill but it worked great!

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Let the work start! Kudos to those that can guess what's under the car cover in the back. No cheating and looking at my photo bucket lol :tomato:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...0ee427cc7d.jpg

Subframe Out:

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What I used to get the car high enough to remove the trans, Wooden cribbing in the back and massive jackstands in the front, I had about 20" off clearance under the car to work. I used an engine hoist to lower the trans, which is heavy compared to a B-series trans. :tomato: The subframe isn't heavy, it's an easy two person lift. When removing it be sure to support it properly.


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Good thing I replaced my motor mounts! :tomato: Mine where all toast, this made a huge improvement in the way the car handles and drives. Soon much better when everything's attached :tongue:


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My car had a minor leak from the rear main seal, you can tell from the greasy mess that was left in my bell housing.

Before:


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After:

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Clutch was toast and I autoX'd & ice rally X'd like this, wow top it off with blown motor mounts lol :tomato:


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Instead of just buying the rear seal, I ponied up the $36 to get the plate. First clean the old area very well before taking the plate off since the engine internals will be exposed to anything that fails into the oil pan. Yes it's filtered but just clean it! Removing the old plate took a bit of prying but it gave way in short order. I took a razor blade and carefully cleaned the gasket surfaces. Clean the end of the crank and apply light grease to the surface that comes contact to the seal. I used Hondabond for liquid gasket, this stuff works wonder, it could probably fix a hole in a damn. Work quickly and get the new seal in.


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Finally the flywheel and clutch go in, looks much better than what came out!


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Now here's when it got interesting, I got everything back together, car runs great and I am taking it easy to break in the clutch. About the 8th start on the flywheel, I get a grinding noise, the starter is working but it's not engaging the flywheel on the car. I think it's the starter and install a new one, same thing:ugh:! I put the old one in and think hey maybe it's a bur on the flywheel because after I get the new starter in it works for a few days. I take it to Acura for an alignment and after I get the car back it does the same thing. I had to get to work so they gave me a loaner 2014 SH-AWD and looked at it for me. They couldn't come up with anything and said it was because it was an aftermarket flywheel. I talked to Josh at Excelerate and he tells me he will look into it and to check with AASCO.

I end up talking to Vince at AASCO and he tells me they will send me a new flywheel right off the bar. We both are puzzled as to why the starter is having issues engaging the flywheel. I asked him about what I could do to check the ring gear, maybe count the teeth or check the runout with a dial indicator. Right before I get off the phone he tells me to check to see if the engagement chamfer on the ring gear to see it's facing the trans, he said it was a long shot but the ring gear maybe on backwards. Sure enough the ring gear was on backwards! So now I am relegating to rocking the car in gear every time the starter doesn't engage the flywheel until I get my replacement in.

AASCO and XLR8 have been great, AASCO sent me a new flywheel and bolts right away, with a return slip to get the bad flywheel back to them. Yes it sucks that I have to take the trans out again, but this time I am ready for it and I've done it once before :thumbsup: So let that be a lesson to everyone to check your ring gear! I checked the fit of everything else but missed this. Also I let HeelToe know since Marcus stocks these flywheels.

:popcorn:

Great write up but there is absolutely no excuse for this occuring now. When these were new to market, I could understand it but AASCO should have had this resolved 100% a long time ago. Makes me think you got a shelf part that had been sitting and not a new one. Sucks to have to do again.

Thanks, my writings terrible, not my strong point.

My flywheel is not a left over, it was made on June 2015 based of the serial number. AASCO told me they stopped production on the J-series flywheels because of all the issues to insure the product they sent out was correct.

AASCO has been very helpful and I am sharing it here as a reminder.

Wow - how have they still had such an issue with the ring gear on these? Glad they took care of you.

Your write-up was EXCELLENT and detailed!

Since this is in the performance section of the 3G forums it's time to give you my initial impressions of the AASCO Flywheel and DD XLR8 clutch package. Looking past the ring gear issue.

Cost:
It's more expensive when compered with the OEM Self Adjusting Clutch (SAC) and Dual Mass (DM) Flywheel, but like anything for the TL, it's going to cost more than your average Honda.

Performance:
I haven't got on it and explored what this clutch can do yet (So no digs, WOT runs or fast shifts) since I am still in the run-in period. The flywheel is fantastic, the throttle response seems instantaneous, once you start laying into it a little it goes, especially in 1st 2nd and 3rd. Rev matching the downshifts (heeltoe) is worlds easier with the light flywheel, the blip on the gas isn't as large as it was with the stock DM flywheel.

The clutch has a stock like pedal feel, the engagement point is defined and it feels like a traditional clutch, which is very welcome. The SAC pressure plate felt numb in regards to the engagement point, I suppose that what luxury feels like? Lol. The XLR8 clutch grabs nicely and is very forgiving, perfect for stop and go traffic and DD duties. I didn't go with a wild clutch because of what I am using the car for and what I have and plan for my future power adders (HFPC’s). If you remember I_love_cars made a ton of power on the stock clutch TL-S Clutch. What matters the most is how much torque you are making or plan to make and how you will be using it (service factor), that is how a clutch should be selected, not because stage 3 sounds dope.

I did look at the FX250 but wasn't sold on the hybrid segmented on one side and organic on the other side. This may wear goofy depending on your driving style, :2cents:. For must of us I feel that the DD is a good choice for long life, nice engagement and good temp range. The next step up was a segmented kevlar type disc which prefers to be driven hard and is more likely to glaze in stop in go traffic. Unlike the organic disc in the DD the kevlar if overheated will not come back and your clutch will be toast. The organic will come back from being overheated but won't have quite to the torque capacity it once had.

If I released my TL of DD duties and used it as a track car, I would just jump to a twin disc or puck style clutch to take the abuse in the form of heat. Another thing that pushed me to the DD clutch was that I have a segmented ceramic disc in my Integra and it bites extremely hard and the engagement is difficult to get smooth. The segmented ceramic clutch just prefers to be driven hard, which it does an excellent job at.

Quality:
Aside from my ring gear on the flywheel being put on backwards, it's great quality. I like that you can replace the friction surface on the flywheel by using bolts rather than machining it. I haven't looked at who makes the clutch disc, but the pressure plate is made by SACHS. Everything fit together nicely when I re-installed my trans.

Overall:
XLR8 has great communication, customer service and fast shipping, AASCO has been great at getting the new flywheel and worked very quickly to make sure I got a new flywheel with the ring gear installed correctly plus they sent me new flywheel bolts since those need to be replaced.

The DD clutch/flywheel package from Excelerate is a great upgrade/replacement from the stock SAC and DM setup. Going to a traditional sprung clutch disc and single mass flywheel was a great choice. The whole DM and rigid clutch disc seems like a logical choice by Acura to increase comfort and reduce vibrations, but it doesn't lend it's self to performance or spirited driving. If you have bolt ons and don't plan to go with FI this is a great upgrade/replacement to the current system. :thumbsup:

If anyone has any questions let me know!

My stock clutch is holding strong at 114k, but this is the route I'll go if I decide to do the 3.94 final drive.

That's good to hear! Wow 3.94 final that's a huge jump! You will need Hondata traction control for first and second gear. :yum:

I don't think second will be too bad. I don't have any problems now with sticky summer tires, as long as it's over 50 degrees. I'm sure my mounts/suspension help. First gear should be interesting though.

Great write up! Keep us updated especially once it's broken in. :thumbsup:

Do you have the spherical bearings in place of the rubber compliance bushings on the front LCA?


It's been unseasonable warm in Wisconsin this past weekend so I took the opportunity to switch out my flywheel with the replacement AASCO sent me. It took about 13 hours to do the job (no lift) not including breaks for lunch and dinner. Thanks again, AASCO and Excelerate for helping me get a replacement one quickly and for the replacement flywheel bolts. :thumbsup:

I was excited to see that my clutch break in was going very well, no strange coloration on the pressure plate and an even wear on the clutch disc.

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Here's a picture of the backwards ring gear for reference, you can see where the starter wasn't engaging the ring gear and grinding away at the outside of the gear.

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Here you can see the starter chamfer on the ring gear that was supposed to be facing the transmission and not the engine block :annoyed:

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13 hours - ooof. Glad you got it swapped out and everything is good. I'm dreading doing my clutch soon.

Me too! :tongue: I was the same way before I removed my transmission, but it was fairly easy the second time around.

please post a pic of the correct flywheel w/o the backwards ring gear side by side for newbies like me to notice

Sorry man! I didn't think to take a picture of the correct and wrong ring gears side by side. Just put the old flywheel next to the new one or if yours looks like the pictures above then you know your going to have a bad day.

Maybe I could get a picture of the old flywheel For reference.

Stock 2004 TL OEM dual mass flyhweel weighs 29 lbs

Here's pictures of the OEM ring gear (right) vs the INCORRECTLY installed ring gear (left).

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glad to hear it all worked out. I feel you on the install process, lol. I didn't keep track but I probably spent the same amount of time you did replacing the clutch on my 135 earlier this year. It pays off though because you know you took the time to make sure everything was right.

Please don't try to turn your TL into a track car or else I may have to flog you at the new KMS dyno day in 2016 :)

What's that you say?? It's kinda of hard to hear over all the turbo and Blow-off valve whooshing noise your making over there lol. It's good to you see paying a visit to these parts of the interwebz, I also see that your signature has been updated :)

Thanks man! DIY'ing it pays big dividends, once I was done (both times) I was like..well that wasn't bad.

I am going for track inspired look on the TL, you know me form over function 4 lyfe. :tomato: I hope to see you at KMS 2016, but more so I am hoping to see you at RA or any other track in the area. You missed alot of passing opportunities at RA but I did enjoy waving your BMW brethren by.

Update: TL rolled over 150,000 Miles this month so I have about 3,000 miles with the new clutch set-up.


Impression @ ~3,000 miles (winter tires):


Pedal feel is great, hasn't change much since I installed it. It does feel a little smoother now that the system has been run in.


The clutch engagement is fantastic, its less temperamental and more consistent when compared to my old stock clutch. It's smooth but it grabs very well. When coming out of a corner and squeezing back on the gas it feels like there is zero slip, I can really feel the Limited Slip Diff at work with this clutch and flywheel. I want to say this also has to do with the flywheel being a single mass vs a dual mass flywheel, removing that spongy connection between the motor and driveline.


I have been working on my heeltoe during my DD driving. I do track days with both cars and this is an area I need to work on. The track is not the place to learn this technique so I have been doing it during regular driving, the thought is if you can do it on the street smooth then it will be second nature at the track. Heeltoe is so much easier with this flywheel and the reduce mass makes it easier to modulate each throttle blip.


I am very happy with my purchase! Can't wait to get sticky summer tires on my TL.

Well I guess that's my next clutch :D

Nice! I have to get some videos together from this past weekend, I really put the clutch to work. I drove from the Detroit area to Road America (437mi one way) and did the 2nd event of the Winter AutoX they host and the clutch was awesome! The events consisted of speed stop challenge, AutoX and a drag racing. All of the events are run twice, one in the morning the one in the afternoon. The clutch did an great job all around, hoping to get the video I took up on my YouTube channel this weekend once I edit it.

Here's a video of me putting the clutch and flywheel through the paces. :thumbsup:

Thanks for this writeup. I'm a little inspired to do this myself when its time to replace my clutch.

Thank you! hopefully you decide to do it, I was intimidated with the whole process but it's not bad once you get in there.

Update! I am currently at over 157,000 miles on my TL, that puts my XLR8 clutch set-up at just over 10,000 miles. I am very pleased with this purchase, I installed this right before winter so the majority of my update information was coming from my TL and winter tires. As anyone that has winter tires can tell you they just don't grip like a nice set of summer tires, for obvious reasons. It's now well in to summer in Michigan and I put on a nice new set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports (235/45/17) on my TL now. With summer tires the XLR8 DD clutch and ASSCO Flywheel has been fantastic! It has great grip between shifts whether its low or high RPM shifts. If anyone is familiar with Detroit Metro, you know traffic sucks during the morning and evening commutes, it's bumper to bumper. This clutch is wonderful in stop and go traffic, more importantly it's ready to go when you want to have a fun spirited drive.

If your TL/TL-S is in need of a clutch I highly recommend taking a look at the XLR8 clutch/flywheel packages. :thumbsup:

This has really been a fun and interesting thread to follow! That's coming from a 5AT owner as well. Thanks for the update.

PS. I also rock a dashmat and rarely see them anymore. I like your style.

Thank you AlbinLee! It was an adventure in the beginning. The dashmat has grown on me, it's a fix/ cover up for my cracked dash in a few spots. My car started it's life in Houston TX where I bought it 2011, then brought it up north and the cold winters took it's toll.

Little update for my XLR8 Clutch package, went to a test and tune at the local-ish drag strip. I was able to get 10 runs in and the clutch didn't skip a beat.

I thought you had him on the 2nd run then he just pop out of nowhere and pass you :what:

I wish :) but not a chance, it's not an ordinary TSX, it's one of a kind. When I first saw an under hood picture I had to pick my jaw up off the floor.

Looking at XLR8's site, I only see the "system" sold as a kit, with the flywheel. What is someone supposed to do if they just need a new clutch, but have an AASCO flywheel already?

Call or email them. I am sure they could just sell you what you need.

Like EvilVirus said, give XLR8 a ring, or look at my first post and note the part numbers of the clutch disc and pressure plate ;)

Thanks to all for saying such nice things about our clutch kits. It's really appreciated. I just wanted everybody to know that we can also break down these kits for what your needs are. If interested please PM me for options and quotes. Thanks againhttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...07b122f03f.jpg

Drivetrain Products for: 2007 ACURA TL TYPE-S 6Cyl 3.5L - Excelerate's Honda & Acura Store - Japanese Performance Specialist:

There you go scream ^^^

Hey AZ, first time poster, long time reader here. Thanks to the OP for a great and detailed write-up. I am in the market for a clutch @ExcelerateRep - will you be able to sell just the clutch without flywheel?

Contact them directly on their website. Faster and easier to get a hold of them.

Bumping my old thread for an update.

I am at 166k now, so about 19,000 miles on this setup and I don't have any issues. Clutch is still really easy to drive and has a very smooth engagement.