Ocelot

no problem, We had the same problem with the contour. Trying to find a company to make turbos for a car that no longer is being marketed, finding a donor, and worst of all...being patient while it happens..lol

Honestly though its well worth it. I'm sure there are some 04-05 guys who have their cars paid for and would be willing to donate just to be the first to have a turbo, and for the steep discount. If you guys come together and organize, I can be a spokesman for you if you want.

EternaLlx

About the intercooler, if we cant get one to work we could use wat the supercharger ppl are starting to use. the Water injection thing, looks like it works really good from againstallodds experience.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Yeh, I was thinking alcohol injection. I know on my last turbo car people were able to run another 2-3 lbs with it safely. Smaller and still allows the car to look stock. Shouldn't really have to modify anything. Cheaper than reworking mandrels and trying to fit a and air to water or air to air cooler in there.

nitehawk23

im interested in getting a turbo for my car because the S/C is way too much for such little output. im just curious would the turbo and vtec conflict with each other?

EternaLlx

not at all

TLheaven

iTrader: (4)

hmmmm wait for a possible turbo kit or s/c

EternaLlx

haha am all turbo for the turbo since it wont kill mpg as much during normal driving but if u cant wait get the s/c

aryathegreat

wat a sec, how are u going to fit an intercooler in there? aftermarket bumper?

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

either that, versus front bumper, or side air to air or water to air cooler

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

**Update from Me** I
I know I have been slacking but i have my hand in a few things right now. I'll be back on it more come the next couple weeks.( school out in MD; summer vay cay) I know the carputer has been taking up most of my project time and business endeavors taking up the rest.

1FastVtec

I couldn't agree more! The rush of a turbo spooling and hitting full-boost is just plain awesome! S/C's are nice, but you don't get that rush. Plus, with an S/C it takes power to make power. Belt driven vs exhaust driven.... I'll take exhaust driven.

I think a remote-mount turbo will be awesome! I'm talking with a tech @ Precision Turbo to find out what turbo will be right.

Dr.Murdock

my mechanic in yonkers built a custom twin turbo that produced 250whp for someone in conneticit. it was a 6mt tl..took a lot of time and almost 10k. ton of custom work, they even sent the ecu out to be reprogrammed; all in all, took a few mnths to get it all done (i think).

speedr73

Hmm...that doesn't make any sense...the 6mt TL at 270 crank should be almost 230-240 whp...a twin turbo setup should be more like 350-375 on the light side....but could be much more...

EternaLlx

whp of a stock tl is about 208 +/- and the tl is rated at 258 at the crank. But still, if someone out there really did do a turbo tl already 250whp doesnt sound like that great for a turbo indeed.. plus it cost 10k.... >.>

chill_dog

I'm thinking he meant an additional 250 (~450 whp) Otherwise, somebody's not too bright as you can get to 250 with bolt ons.

ACCURATEin

Pictures produce 1,000 words.

Black_05_TL_6SP

YEAH Baby!! Gotta love the turbo spool!!!

I know this was brought up earlier in the thread, but here is something to look at. STS remote mount systems. STS

Send them an email if you are interested in getting a remote mount system. I already sent them one expressing intrest in the system. So for all those out there that would like to see a turboed TL, email them, and they may just make us one. The are also working on a universal one, but I would prefer the direct bolt. These cars they are builing are bad arse!! I don't see any reason why it would work well. They have done a great job with getting the lag out of it, and on top of that, when do you race your TL below 3500 RPM? Once you get above that you are spooled, so you may have a little lag off the line, but thats it.

With this setup, under the same amount of boost, you would produce more power then the S/C. Not to mention the temp of the intake charge would be alot cooler.

So take a second, check out there site, and watch some of the cool vids. The sound is insane !!!!!!

JOES05tl

I talked to joe from sts and he said it would be no problem, and gave me the number to 2 of his distributors. One place is called Atomic racing in san diego, the other is called advance performance in cypress, ca. Advance said that they've done turbos on accord v6's before. I'll probably go check it out. For 5,000.00 you can get boosted, install and tuning included. I told them that there is alot of interest, and maybe we can do a group buy. I haven't talked to them about group pricing yet, but im sure excelerate can pull that off. Joe at sts said if I buy two, I'd get a discount, so for 5 or 10, im sure we could get it hooked up. I don't know if im allowed to put their phone numbers in the thread, so ill just leave it at that.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I wish I lived somewhere out there, I would be up for being a guinea pig. I think the turbo TL would be insane. Then to not have a intercooler, people wouldn't know where the hell the PPPSSSSSTTTT! was coming from. HEHEHE. Even looking under the hood would give no real sign of a turbo!! HAHAHAHA. Stealth baby!! I am pumped about this, I have been wanting to do a turbo car for a few years, and this by far has to be one of the best options for doing it.

Normally on a stock motor under boost, you run into problems due to heat, even with a intercooler on the car. This way, we could run 4-5 pounds and it should be fine for long term. If you want to go alittle bit more, upgrade the MAP sensor, and some BIG injectors, and WAM.

But as of right now, I think we are still going to have a problem with the clutch, but things are looking up, we are getting manufactures to look at the car, and that is the key. We just need to keep expressing interest to them and they may just produce some parts.

With the release of the TL in the JDM market and other areas, it will help to increase visibility. Lets keep up the good work guys and keep things rolling.

Jason

speedr73

I'm not so sure about this STS kit...I mean it definitely works, but notice all the vids on their site are of the cars drag racing. No matter how long a turbo takes to spool up, if you spool the turbo before dropping the clutch it's going to shoot off the line. But for you guys who aren't building a race car, I think you will be disappointed. Specially if you want to use a bigger turbo like the GT35R. Which is the near perfect all around turbo for this V6.

I would like blk2001tlon19s to chime in here, but to my understanding the spool up time with this kit is rediculous. And if your gonna spend 5k on a kit, then get it done right. I know that a kit could be built for the 3G TL, and you could do it a lot like my kit. Spool up time would be more in the early 3k range.

You will always need some sort of fuel management...you can't just throw boost on a motor and call it a day. Even with the comptech sc they have the ESM. And that is on very low boost. If you put 4-5 psi with this kit I'm willing to bet you might only see 2-3psi at the intake. If you want to boost enough to matter, you will need at least the emanage-fuel pump-and either the rising rate FPR or a 1:1 FPR. Although the 1:1 units just regulate the higher pressure coming from the bigger fuel pump, and you would need bigger injectors along with it. I'm not sure what you mean by upgrading the MAP sensor...I haven't heard of that one, or even who does it. The only think I can think of is that you mean to put a MAP sensor in that can read more than 5psi boost, but our OE ecu will still not compensate for it. It will only add fuel necessary to keep the AFR at 14.7 (stoich) which is not good for a FI engine. A FI engine needs to be 11:1-at most 12:1 under boost. I run consistently around 11:1 under boost.

I have also heard that boosting the 3G TLs are problematic because of the stubborness of the ECU. If you are trying to out-do comptech, then you might even be looking at a standalone unit.

So again...if your gonna spend 5g's on a turbo kit, then get it done right.

JOES05tl

So, speedr73, is that to say that if I go to api and pay 5000.00 for them to install and tune my sts turbo, I would be doing it wrong. No anamosity, but how would the right way be? I ask because i dont know, not to start sh!t- so be nice.

Black_05_TL_6SP

Sorry, I did mean to say replace and not upgrade. As for the fuel pump, thats easy enough, a intank is not that hard. The injectors should hold for low boost, but to be safe those could be replaced as well. As for the FPR on the TLs, I am not sure if there is one that works for it yet.

But these are things that would be built into a kit for the car. The point of the thread is to get ideas for building it. Also, going with a large turbo won't be optimal on this car, as the larger turbo is going to cause lag in itself. As for the RPM range. Why would you want full boost when cruising below 3500 RPM. Without the boost, the car will behave some one factory, but under higher RPM load you would get into boost. When do you race a import below 4000-4500 RPMs. Even launching the car requires some RPM, so given you may have lag off launch, but you will never get out of boost once running.

As for highway, if you decide you need some power you would downshift, this puts you back in the boost. You have to do it now to get it into the optimal powerband anyway.

But yes, it does need to be right, but right does not mean it has to be under the hood. The boost would need to be measured at the intake and not at the turbo, as there is going to be some loss, but since the air is cooler and there is not intercooler, boost levels will remain more constant.

All of this is theoretical at this point, as the only forced induction TLs have a roots style blower on them. Even a Vortec style charger would be better. I am glad that Comptech has taken the time to work on this project, but there still needs to be some more choices out there. That is what we are trying to get started here. At this point, I don't think anyone is look to get a 400hp TL right away. But boy would that be cool!!!

speedr73

I'm definitely not starting shit and would never insult someone on these forums...I'm just stating what I know and what I have learned through my experience.

Like I said, though, the STS is not wrong. Just not the best way of going about it. You are driving a nice car, don't put an economy kit on it. That kit was designed for the people that can't afford the normal kit, or to make one. It is also universal which means it wasn't specifically designed for your car.


IMO the right way to do this would be to have a manifold custom built up to the turbo. The engine temps can be kept down through coatings and wraps and better fans.

Personally I would take a little time to see exactly how things can be ran in the engine bay, and what would be the best fitment. The shortest route to the turbo will allow for quickest spool. Since the exhaust manifolds are part of the engine block, you will be forced to do a manifold a lot like mine. I would suggest blk2001tlon19s cuz that is my favorite and allows for maximum downpipe, but I don't think it is possible with your setup.

We have found that the GT35R will probably max out at about 10psi, with is roughly 450+whp. If you want more than that, then obviously you will need a bigger turbo, but that will also cause a longer spool time.

A FMIC definitely makes a huge difference as I found out having both direct from turbo to TB, and through intercooler. There are other guys on this forum that know the specifics on the ECU problems, so they need to chime in for that. Normally I would suggest the emanage as it seems to be the easiest way to control fuel. Above that would be a standalone and through info from blk2001tlon19s it seems that the Electromotive TEC3 would be the best.

I want you to understand, though, that I am not saying you can get a custom turbo kit, an engine management system, and all relative parts for 5k...especially if you are getting 1. all brand name parts, and 2. a shop to install and tune everything. Labor will be quite expensive, specially on a custom kit. This is why I did it all myself. But $5k will be a huge chunk of it. At this point there are enough people on this forum to help you through any hiccups you might encounter.

If I had the chance to build a kit for the 3G TL I would, but I take my time, and would need both a welder (which I don't currently have) and a local TL that can stay with me for awhile. I think whoever does this will need extensive knowledge of ECU's since that is the unknown for this build.

List of parts IMO:
1. GT35R
2. Tial 38mm wastegate
3. HKS BOV, best sounding in my opinion
4. Walbro 255
5. RC injectors and AEM 1:1 FPR
6. Emanage or TEC3 (emanage is around $300 now, and TEC3 is almost $2500 with all the extras.
7. Hopefully a high pressure clutch is coming out soon.
8. Custom exhaust manifold and downpipe.
9. Top to Bottom Intercooler
10. Trunk mount Battery

After driving mine daily now for a few months, I have also realized that you must have stiffer suspension and motor mounts with this much power. It is actually less fun to drive cuz i feel like my car has hydraulics and I actually feel the engine kick when I take off.

I think you can get all the necessary parts for under 5k, unless you have to go with the TEC3. Labor is anybody's guess. I have been quoted up to $2500 for just a custom manifold.

Black_05_TL_6SP

What size injectors are you running currently, and what type of power are you seeing at the wheels? It sounds like you have had fun building it up.

The heads of the TL are going to prove to be a bit of a problem, that is why I think a remote mount system would prove a little more effective. With the room under the hood and the battery moved to the trunk, you could locate the Snail there. The major issue, for most, will be the O2 sensor locations. As the cat comes straight off the single output head. With high flow cats in, and the proper trim on the turbo, the spool time on the turbo should not be that bad.

You are coorect. There should be time put into the development and tuning of this item as a "direct bolt" system. To hack it would not be a good idea. There would need to be some fuel management, thats given. With whoever it might be, or the type of system, there is going to be some test time and parts replacement to get it right. Hopefully with Hondata working with comptech to figure out the problem with it, it will solve any issue's we have with boosted TL's period. So wheter its S/C or Turbo, it would solve the open loop issue the S/Ced guys are seeing.

And thank you for the quick list of parts. The kits STS is offering as direct bolts look to be well designed and well tuned. To go beyond what any manufacture of turbo or S/C kits offers out of the box, would require additional parts and time on a dyno and wideband O2.

speedr73

I have not dynoed, but I can give you a few numbers that can be found elsewhere on the forum.

Blk2001tlon19s- 319whp, AT, 6psi, S2K injectors (370cc i believe)

Thinjim- 464whp, 6spd, max 10psi 440cc RC injectors, AEM 1:1 FPR and a host of other parts

Me- ?whp, AT, boost gauge read a max of 7.5-8psi (supposed to have a 5.8psi spring), Comptech rising rate FPR

If i screwed up on some of your numbers, sorry...LMK

Dr.Murdock

sorry if i did not make it clear, but the twin turbo setup dynoed 250whp MORE than stock. not 250whp total.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

The lastest setup i was looking at was more focused toward the way speedr73 did his. Using the stock cats would be good so you dont have to modify the sensors. This also allows possible upgrade to the Procats..(I could have sworn I posted this before..). I still haven't done the drawings for them but its constantly in circulation in my head along with other things and not going anywhere. The plan is to route the downpipes to the right like speedr73 did his and coming back up to where the battery and factory air box is. This allows for the downpipe on the turbo to go down the front( like on other TL setups) and be bent back towards where the factory exhaust exits under the car. Im not familiar witht he underbody of the car that much. Done a few oil changes and brakes but not to the point of examining, taking pictures, and pulling off the front bumper( probably this summer). Im honestly not really worried about the routing for the turbo...thats the easy part. The Fuel managment is the big thing. I really know just about nothing about the ECU for this 3G and from what I here its not the easiest to work with. Thats what I need some info on but not sure where to search. If anyone can get a link on this, that would be great so we can get a better idea of how we are going to work with or around the ECU because basic piggybacking doesn't seem like its going to float on this project.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Another thing is ,Im not worried about trying to get the turbo in facing forward anymore after seeing the CTSC custom intakes people have been making. Seems like this is a good amount of space up front when everything is moved. That is to be seen after the battery is relocated to get some better measurements

speedr73

Unless someone has a better idea, I would call Comptech's tech department. I have called them before and they are real helpful. They don't try to rush you off the phone like some companies do.

Since they are trying to work on this problem, they should be able to help you.


Another idea I had was to remove the cats altogether. I removed mine and didn't see any problems so I would like to test that theory on the 3G. Just make the manifold as you normally would, except here you would weld on a few bungs so that the factory sensors could go back in. I'm pretty sure the sensors can't tell whether they are in a cat or not. They just read narrowband AFR.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

the 3G's are a lot more sensitive than the last model TL's plus most people are still paying on their TL's. Not trying to lose all reliablity too. I guareentee you gonna throw a code removing those two precats. Gas mileage gonna be worst than what it is. I think working the kit from after the precats keeps the interest of more people. Less install and uninstall time too. You know you can bolt your factory exhaust right on there without trying to drop/raise the engine some so you have to unbolt right from the head. This is the way im looking to map out the one im working on. Someone else can map out on all the way from the head. I dont know about the rest of you but Im still working with a budget. Ima aiming for around if not less than the price of a CTSC. Ima put a pricing list together soon..well an estimate of what i think my project is gonna cost.

speedr73

Are you gonna build the manifold? Or are you gonna have a shop do it...and if so have you gotten any quotes yet?

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

OOhhh...I got one that may make you feel differently!!

Check this turbo out....listen to it and tell me you couldnt get used to THAT!

http://www.dragnracing.com/video/WW06/WW06AXIC.wmv (AUTOX)

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I talked to SSC Racing / Joe Demaree yesterday about this very same thing after having been to the autocross.....he said we can do this....just would take a little work. Intercoolers are no problem with a "one brick" system (which is small and compact) and the piping could be custom made with no problems. We are already looking at developing an intercooler for the CT supercharger for my install.... Then we got talking about Turbos.....now I see this thread! He said it can be done.

speedr73

Yeah I agree...the sound of a supercharger just means there is a supercharger, but is quite annoying IMO. If you've ever had the gears go out in the rear axle of a truck, it sounds the same way, like something is broken.

A wastegate can start to make your ears hurt though!

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

The plan is to do it myself...well at least the mock ups. I sold my last welder when i sold my last turbo kit and accessories. Told myself I wasn't gonna be doing nothing like that for a while and a new a better one would be out..but evidently I was wrong. Can't get away from modding cars. But I plan on making the mocks and taking them to a local welder (FLP - FastLanePerformance). Ive seen his work and hes done a downpipe for me in the past..beautiful welds. Haven't gotten any quotes on that yet because I keep going back and forth between welding the mock ups, using a angle grinder and jetcoating them in SS or doing the mock ups with like PVC piping or something and dropping it off to the welder for him to create in SS. The PVC mocks would save me a lot of money in the research funds instead of buying SS mandrels.

ANother thing..like I said. Im not building all the way from the head. Im build from the precats down..(for those who haven't been reading the thread) Again this also make the install and testing easier because I wont have to remove as much stuff like I would if I was building from the head down. I am still trying drive a Luxury car..dont wanna take it completely apart like I did my civic in the past

blk2001tlon19s

250whp extra whp? Wow...so the stock block is holding close to 500whp? Any pictures or other information on this kit? Could have had on GT35R and ran 10psi like Thinjim and did the same thing. TT is a waste IMO.


Wonder how much whp my new setup will add ..lol

blk2001tlon19s

yep, those numbers were correct .except mine was 318 lol ...

also Bluecl6 did 374@ 7psi however his dyno was on a dynopack.

blk2001tlon19s

Here you go....


I'm not sure of the year ..but It's a new accord v6 6 speed ..he's getting a custom turbo kit...I'll post some more pics when I get them from him. His manifold goes join under the car similiar to Speedr73's setup. He's using the GT35R. If you want the complete mods list, let me know. I have that somewhere....lol

speedr73

Good thing he put that picture property of on there....We have someone stealing pics on this forum somewhere...haha


Oh yeah...and I almost got that Dyno I told you about, but it turned out to be on a dynopack, so I said f it...I'll wait and get a dynojet....I called one place and they said normal dyno is 65 with appointment...he will hook up his boost gauge to see whats going on with mine.

I hit 9psi on the gauge tonight...I know something is wrong. My car doesn't feel anywhere near 375+whp. Or at least if it is, then I am disappointed at what that much power feels like

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I believe the original poster and developer of the procats tried this.....threw and IMMEDIATE code as I remember. He tried a stage 2 setup they called it...and it didnt work. Code thrown.