Very Detailed install of VIPER 5901 with Remote Start
#41
Race Director
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/file.asp?ID=739
#42
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Thank you for the info.... Sorry for noob question on this but say i had it wired to my 6mt would i need to leave the car in nuetral so i doesn't "jump" or is it ok to stay in gear?
#43
Race Director
In a MT car, you have to perform a specific set of actions that guarantees you put the car in neutral and activates the remote start:
with the engine still running, shift to neutral, put foot on brake, set parking brake, release foot brake. Turn key to "off" position (engine will keep running) and remove key. Open door and exit vehicle. Shut door. Hit "lock" button on remote. Engine shuts down, remote starter and alarm are armed.
with the engine still running, shift to neutral, put foot on brake, set parking brake, release foot brake. Turn key to "off" position (engine will keep running) and remove key. Open door and exit vehicle. Shut door. Hit "lock" button on remote. Engine shuts down, remote starter and alarm are armed.
#44
In a MT car, you have to perform a specific set of actions that guarantees you put the car in neutral and activates the remote start:
with the engine still running, shift to neutral, put foot on brake, set parking brake, release foot brake. Turn key to "off" position (engine will keep running) and remove key. Open door and exit vehicle. Shut door. Hit "lock" button on remote. Engine shuts down, remote starter and alarm are armed.
with the engine still running, shift to neutral, put foot on brake, set parking brake, release foot brake. Turn key to "off" position (engine will keep running) and remove key. Open door and exit vehicle. Shut door. Hit "lock" button on remote. Engine shuts down, remote starter and alarm are armed.
What brand? what model?
#45
I found this history...
A Little History
We used to stay away from remote car starters on manual shift cars. Back in the day, there were all kinds of methods to do a remote start in a standard shift. One manufacturer had little lights that you had to line up to ensure that the shifter was in the neutral position. What a joke that was. There was nothing out there that appeared to be both safe and reliable.
Today, installations in standard transmission vehicles make up about 20% of our car starter business. So what changed our minds? A couple of years ago, our remote starter vendor came up with a very easy to use, reliable and safe method. That method has been improved upon and today, is very foolproof.
What’s the Big Deal?
There are several issues with installing a remote starter in stick shift. First of all, you must have the emergency brake on. Second, the vehicle must be in neutral. If either one of these conditions does not exist during the remote start sequence, the result could be deadly. The car could buck forward and roll down a hill. Not good.
So in order to make a remote starter function safely, it needs to be able to monitor both the E brake and the shifter.
How do we do that?
The first one is simple. Most vehicles have a wire attached to the emergency brake. If the brake is not engaged, the remote car starter realizes this and will not let the vehicle start. But what about the shifter?
In most cases, the shifter is a manual device and there is not a wire that can tell the remote starter without a doubt that the car is in neutral.
Our vendor has a very effective way of doing this. First of all, when you are ready to get out of your car, you need to engage the emergency brake. You do this before you shut off the car. This is a sign to the remote car starter to keep the car running even after you turn off the key. Next you actually turn off the key and the car stays running. Now you make sure that the car is in neutral and get out of the car. When you close the door, the car shuts off. Why go through all of that? If the car is still running when you get out of the car, obviously it had to be in neutral.
When you want to remote start your vehicle, simply press the button on the remote. As long as no-one has opened the door since you exited, the car will start. If the door was opened, the car will not start. This is a safety feature to ensure that no one has gotten in the vehicle and put it back in gear. Opening the door interrupts the specific series of events that needs to happen in order to start the car remotely. Once the door is opened, you need to repeat the process outlined above before remote car starting.
We feel that this is a very easy, effective and safe way to add a remote car starter to your vehicle.
We used to stay away from remote car starters on manual shift cars. Back in the day, there were all kinds of methods to do a remote start in a standard shift. One manufacturer had little lights that you had to line up to ensure that the shifter was in the neutral position. What a joke that was. There was nothing out there that appeared to be both safe and reliable.
Today, installations in standard transmission vehicles make up about 20% of our car starter business. So what changed our minds? A couple of years ago, our remote starter vendor came up with a very easy to use, reliable and safe method. That method has been improved upon and today, is very foolproof.
What’s the Big Deal?
There are several issues with installing a remote starter in stick shift. First of all, you must have the emergency brake on. Second, the vehicle must be in neutral. If either one of these conditions does not exist during the remote start sequence, the result could be deadly. The car could buck forward and roll down a hill. Not good.
So in order to make a remote starter function safely, it needs to be able to monitor both the E brake and the shifter.
How do we do that?
The first one is simple. Most vehicles have a wire attached to the emergency brake. If the brake is not engaged, the remote car starter realizes this and will not let the vehicle start. But what about the shifter?
In most cases, the shifter is a manual device and there is not a wire that can tell the remote starter without a doubt that the car is in neutral.
Our vendor has a very effective way of doing this. First of all, when you are ready to get out of your car, you need to engage the emergency brake. You do this before you shut off the car. This is a sign to the remote car starter to keep the car running even after you turn off the key. Next you actually turn off the key and the car stays running. Now you make sure that the car is in neutral and get out of the car. When you close the door, the car shuts off. Why go through all of that? If the car is still running when you get out of the car, obviously it had to be in neutral.
When you want to remote start your vehicle, simply press the button on the remote. As long as no-one has opened the door since you exited, the car will start. If the door was opened, the car will not start. This is a safety feature to ensure that no one has gotten in the vehicle and put it back in gear. Opening the door interrupts the specific series of events that needs to happen in order to start the car remotely. Once the door is opened, you need to repeat the process outlined above before remote car starting.
We feel that this is a very easy, effective and safe way to add a remote car starter to your vehicle.
#49
Race Director
Well, I finally found the time to install my Clifford Matrix 50.7X (same as Viper 5901) in my 04 6MT TL. I'm using the Canmax400dei for a bypass/door lock module.
The lock/unlock and alarm all work fine, but I can't get the remote start to work. I used D2D wiring instructions.
Now if anyone has any tips for why the remote start won't work, please let me know. FYI, I do have the e-brake wired correctly. The canmax instructions indicate that the brake pedal position is handled through the b-can bus and does not need to be wired, however, the matrix instructions say the brake pedal sensor position switch wire needs to be tapped on an MT. I tried it both ways and still no luck with remote start. I get the 7 flashes error message indicating a remote start error. I do have a tach sense wire from the coil through the firewall and I did perform the tach learn procedure. I have the latest firmware flashed to the canmax and I programmed the matrix using a bitwriter. MT mode is enabled via the bitwriter. I'm stumped. Anyone have any ideas?
The lock/unlock and alarm all work fine, but I can't get the remote start to work. I used D2D wiring instructions.
Now if anyone has any tips for why the remote start won't work, please let me know. FYI, I do have the e-brake wired correctly. The canmax instructions indicate that the brake pedal position is handled through the b-can bus and does not need to be wired, however, the matrix instructions say the brake pedal sensor position switch wire needs to be tapped on an MT. I tried it both ways and still no luck with remote start. I get the 7 flashes error message indicating a remote start error. I do have a tach sense wire from the coil through the firewall and I did perform the tach learn procedure. I have the latest firmware flashed to the canmax and I programmed the matrix using a bitwriter. MT mode is enabled via the bitwriter. I'm stumped. Anyone have any ideas?
#50
Race Director
^^^OK, found part of the problem: I didn't have the toggle switch plugged in. (DEI instructions suck!!) Now I can activate MT mode, remove the key (car still running), close the door and then arm the alarm (engine shuts down and alarm and remote start are armed).
When I press the remote start button, the system activates (accessories come on) but the starter does not engage. I've double checked all of my heavy gauge wiring and it is all correct. All of the fuses are good. All of my connections are soldered. I even tried the remote start with my key in the ignition or near it to see if the bypass was not working. Still no starter engagement.
Any ideas?
When I press the remote start button, the system activates (accessories come on) but the starter does not engage. I've double checked all of my heavy gauge wiring and it is all correct. All of the fuses are good. All of my connections are soldered. I even tried the remote start with my key in the ignition or near it to see if the bypass was not working. Still no starter engagement.
Any ideas?
#51
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (7)
WRONG. The Viper is specifically made to use on MT if desired. Take a look at the manual:
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/file.asp?ID=739
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/file.asp?ID=739
#52
Race Director
^^^OK, found part of the problem: I didn't have the toggle switch plugged in. (DEI instructions suck!!) Now I can activate MT mode, remove the key (car still running), close the door and then arm the alarm (engine shuts down and alarm and remote start are armed).
When I press the remote start button, the system activates (accessories come on) but the starter does not engage. I've double checked all of my heavy gauge wiring and it is all correct. All of the fuses are good. All of my connections are soldered. I even tried the remote start with my key in the ignition or near it to see if the bypass was not working. Still no starter engagement.
Any ideas?
When I press the remote start button, the system activates (accessories come on) but the starter does not engage. I've double checked all of my heavy gauge wiring and it is all correct. All of the fuses are good. All of my connections are soldered. I even tried the remote start with my key in the ignition or near it to see if the bypass was not working. Still no starter engagement.
Any ideas?
So, all you need to do is wire pin 3 (violet wire, 200mA negative starter output) of the 5-pin remote start aux output harness to the wire going from the clutch interlock switch to the starter cutout relay coil.
#53
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if you want to install on a 6mt all you need to do is diode isolate the clutch wire and wire status output (blue -) or second starter (-) right to it. It will trick the car into thinking the clutch is depressed
#54
Ive been researching doing a remote start on my type-s for a while now. I want DIY..
From what I understand, if I got just a
CanMax400 and a D2D remote start unit (whichever I choose), the install will be very simple, about 5 wires?.
Is this correct? If so, I'll be doing this very soon. Ive been putting it off for a few years.
From what I understand, if I got just a
CanMax400 and a D2D remote start unit (whichever I choose), the install will be very simple, about 5 wires?.
Is this correct? If so, I'll be doing this very soon. Ive been putting it off for a few years.
#55
Race Director
Ive been researching doing a remote start on my type-s for a while now. I want DIY..
From what I understand, if I got just a
CanMax400 and a D2D remote start unit (whichever I choose), the install will be very simple, about 5 wires?.
Is this correct? If so, I'll be doing this very soon. Ive been putting it off for a few years.
From what I understand, if I got just a
CanMax400 and a D2D remote start unit (whichever I choose), the install will be very simple, about 5 wires?.
Is this correct? If so, I'll be doing this very soon. Ive been putting it off for a few years.
No: The hardest part is still there: connecting the heavy gauge starter/aux wires at the steering column.
Yes: With the canmax there will be about 7-8 less wires to connect.
No: but you will still have about 14-15 wires to connect.
Yes: With the canmax (or a door lock interface), you will not have to access the door trigger wires in the driver's door panel, a major PITA.
No: You will still have to run you siren wires through the firewall (and a tach wire if it's a MT).
You can find copies of most of the RS install manuals here:
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/downloads.asp
#56
Advanced
So, I did the install last night, except I used a PKALL for the immobilizer bypass. I have one problem though. when I hit the remote start button, my car doors unlock, the factory alarm disarms (obviously this needs to happen) and my car is unlocked for about 4 to 5 seconds while the car cranks, then the doors lock again, the factory alarm doesn't re-arm but the viper alarm never stopped being armed.
I called DEI and they said that with the TL the wire that disarms the factory alarm (must be done for remote start) also unlocks the doors and there is no way to avoid having them unlocked for these 4 to 5 seconds.
Anyone else experienced this... I think it's BS.
Justin
I called DEI and they said that with the TL the wire that disarms the factory alarm (must be done for remote start) also unlocks the doors and there is no way to avoid having them unlocked for these 4 to 5 seconds.
Anyone else experienced this... I think it's BS.
Justin
#57
Race Director
That's BS. They are separate wires (at least for 2004-2008):
TL wiring diagram
Is your PKALL flashed with the correct and most up to date firmware?
Did you use a door lock interface module?
FYI, I'm using a canmax400dei and my doors do not unlock for RS
TL wiring diagram
Is your PKALL flashed with the correct and most up to date firmware?
Did you use a door lock interface module?
FYI, I'm using a canmax400dei and my doors do not unlock for RS
Last edited by nfnsquared; 03-01-2010 at 03:19 PM.
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zenji03 (03-09-2013)
#58
Advanced
Hey nfnsquared. I'm not sure if the PKALL has the latest firmware or not. I'm using the XK01 (same one used in this article) for the foorlock integration, and my buddy at Best Buy flashed it for me.
#59
Race Director
The issue has to be with the XK01 then. It controls OEM alarm disable and door lock/unlock.
I'm not familiar with the XK01. It may not have the option to not unlock the doors before remote start. Is it hooked up using D2D or W2W? Was it properly programmed per the installation manual instructions?
I'm guessing that you have it hooked up D2D and that the XK01 software doesn't know any better not to send data through the bus to both disarm and unlock. Preferably it should only send a disarm signal and not an unlock signal when remote starting.
Are the viper jumpers in the horizontal position?
I'm not familiar with the XK01. It may not have the option to not unlock the doors before remote start. Is it hooked up using D2D or W2W? Was it properly programmed per the installation manual instructions?
I'm guessing that you have it hooked up D2D and that the XK01 software doesn't know any better not to send data through the bus to both disarm and unlock. Preferably it should only send a disarm signal and not an unlock signal when remote starting.
Are the viper jumpers in the horizontal position?
Last edited by nfnsquared; 03-01-2010 at 03:42 PM.
#60
Advanced
The XK01 is hooked up D2D. The jumpers on the 5901 are in horizontal position.
Per the Viper programming menu, I have an option called "OEM alarm Disarm output: my choices are with unlock, before unlock and remote start only.
That's the only option I really see that looks like it could do anything.
The alarm saves my programming choices if I just close the door right?
Per the Viper programming menu, I have an option called "OEM alarm Disarm output: my choices are with unlock, before unlock and remote start only.
That's the only option I really see that looks like it could do anything.
The alarm saves my programming choices if I just close the door right?
#61
Race Director
No, that won't make a difference. Pretty sure the problem is the XK01, not the Viper.
As I understand, unlike some autos, the TL doesn't require the doors to be unlocked to disarm the factory alarm. The TL factory alarm can be disabled separately. The XK01 apparently doesn't take advantage of this fact and just sends a door unlock pulse to disarm the OEM alarm. You need to ask DEI about that. I know the canmax400dei is smart enough not to unlock the doors, it only disarms during RS.
What version number is flashed to the XK01? It should be 2.06.
If your buddy at BB can't help you and DEI won't respond, you should post a question over at the12volt.com car security forum. There's a ton of guys with more experience than me and a few who would know specifics about the XK01.
As I understand, unlike some autos, the TL doesn't require the doors to be unlocked to disarm the factory alarm. The TL factory alarm can be disabled separately. The XK01 apparently doesn't take advantage of this fact and just sends a door unlock pulse to disarm the OEM alarm. You need to ask DEI about that. I know the canmax400dei is smart enough not to unlock the doors, it only disarms during RS.
What version number is flashed to the XK01? It should be 2.06.
If your buddy at BB can't help you and DEI won't respond, you should post a question over at the12volt.com car security forum. There's a ton of guys with more experience than me and a few who would know specifics about the XK01.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 03-01-2010 at 04:59 PM.
#62
Advanced
Ok, I'm waiting until Best Buy opens and calling my friend to see if they carry the canmax400dei, it's not on their site though. Thanks for your help, let me know if you think of anything else!
Justin
Justin
#63
Being an Acha Bacha in
iTrader: (2)
Ok .. here's a question can any of these modules.. Canmax or XK01 stuff that gets integrated into the DEI setup... can it be programmed to close the windows and sunroof when the car is armed? Or do you still need to use 530T and 529T modules? Basically our sunroofs are a PITA and will not accomodate 529 modules unless you run the wiring directly to the motor. You can't run it to the switch cuz of the stupid tilt feature.
#64
Racer
iTrader: (1)
All I really want is remote start but I plan to install the 5901 simply because I like the 2-Way pager fob. It's very rare that I have the TL parked in unfavorable locations, so security is not my biggest concern. That being said, do I even have to implement the XK01 module since interfacing the door locks for alarming will not be a part of my install? I would think the R/S and the PKH34 transponder bypass would be all I need.
#65
Race Director
Ok .. here's a question can any of these modules.. Canmax or XK01 stuff that gets integrated into the DEI setup... can it be programmed to close the windows and sunroof when the car is armed? Or do you still need to use 530T and 529T modules? Basically our sunroofs are a PITA and will not accomodate 529 modules unless you run the wiring directly to the motor. You can't run it to the switch cuz of the stupid tilt feature.
All I really want is remote start but I plan to install the 5901 simply because I like the 2-Way pager fob. That being said, do I even have to implement the XK01 module since interfacing the door locks for alarming will not be a part of my install? I would think the R/S and the PKH34 transponder bypass would be all I need.
#66
Racer
iTrader: (1)
Really trying to get some climate control with the wife heading into her second tri-mester and even though she's from the South, I have a funny feeling that the humidity and my wife's temperance are not gonna mesh well. I'll look into installing the security side later.
#67
Race Director
HA!!! Live in Bossier now. Better yet, outskirts of Bossier, 5 minutes from Benton. Only time the cops show up in our apartment complex is when the "military-folk" get a little too rowdy on the weekends.
Really trying to get some climate control with the wife heading into her second tri-mester and even though she's from the South, I have a funny feeling that the humidity and my wife's temperance are not gonna mesh well. I'll look into installing the security side later.
Really trying to get some climate control with the wife heading into her second tri-mester and even though she's from the South, I have a funny feeling that the humidity and my wife's temperance are not gonna mesh well. I'll look into installing the security side later.
If you decide that you need Huper Optik tint to help with the heat, the place just outside the Shrevehole base gate on S-B road did a great job for me and they installed moleskin for a small extra charge.
Good luck with the Viper. You'll be glad you took the plunge!!
#68
Racer
iTrader: (1)
Sligo Rd? Not much too look at any further south from there unless you like drives in the country. When ya say Superior, do you mean the Bar and Grill off of Drexel, or the Steakhouse off of Pierrement. Why they located two seperate restaurants with the same name less than 4 blocks away from each other is beyond me, but they both can cook up a great steak IMO.
Thanx for the Huper info. The dealership recommended TNT Window Shop (if you were to go through the Line Ave light instead of turning right off of E 70th going to Superior, it's right next door to the Popeye's i.e. HOOD) which knew that TL tints tended to get scratched up but did nothing about it. Never heard of Moleskin either. Now it's a year later and it looks like like crap. Funny thing is I just commented in the "Ways to keep your car cooler" thread yesterday about Huper and now I know exactly where to go. Definitely gonna look into this.
Normally I feel bad about thread jacking, but this one needed some new life breathed into it anyway.
Thanx for the Huper info. The dealership recommended TNT Window Shop (if you were to go through the Line Ave light instead of turning right off of E 70th going to Superior, it's right next door to the Popeye's i.e. HOOD) which knew that TL tints tended to get scratched up but did nothing about it. Never heard of Moleskin either. Now it's a year later and it looks like like crap. Funny thing is I just commented in the "Ways to keep your car cooler" thread yesterday about Huper and now I know exactly where to go. Definitely gonna look into this.
Normally I feel bad about thread jacking, but this one needed some new life breathed into it anyway.
#69
under renovations....
iTrader: (2)
sorry to bring this back from the dead but....
I just got my 5901 and I wanna install it. I have a few "?"'s
1. I have the KP technolgies window roll up module, will i lose that or will it still work like
normal with the D1 key fob
2. there is one section of the write I seem to be missing....
"Remote Start 5 Pin Connector:
Black White wire PIN 1 should be connected to ground in car. ( I just used snap on connector to my black ground on H1)
Brown wire PIN 3 needs to be connected with snap on connector to white/black wire @ brake pedal switch plug.
PIN 2, 4,5 are not used. TAPE THEM UP!
Remote start auxiliary output, 5 pin connector:
Blue wire PIN 5 needs to be connected to PKH34 10 pin harness PIN 1 Brown wire.
PIN 1,2,3,4 are not used. Tape them UP!"
What 5 pin connector is this?? my 5901 doesn't have one.
I just got my 5901 and I wanna install it. I have a few "?"'s
1. I have the KP technolgies window roll up module, will i lose that or will it still work like
normal with the D1 key fob
2. there is one section of the write I seem to be missing....
"Remote Start 5 Pin Connector:
Black White wire PIN 1 should be connected to ground in car. ( I just used snap on connector to my black ground on H1)
Brown wire PIN 3 needs to be connected with snap on connector to white/black wire @ brake pedal switch plug.
PIN 2, 4,5 are not used. TAPE THEM UP!
Remote start auxiliary output, 5 pin connector:
Blue wire PIN 5 needs to be connected to PKH34 10 pin harness PIN 1 Brown wire.
PIN 1,2,3,4 are not used. Tape them UP!"
What 5 pin connector is this?? my 5901 doesn't have one.
#70
there's different versions of the 5901. I have LC2 and it had wires bundled up together different than what this DYI instruction is or the manual from original 5901
I haven't been able to find the specific instruction for LC2 so you need to take the old install instruction manual and match it up the wires to your unit.
I haven't been able to find the specific instruction for LC2 so you need to take the old install instruction manual and match it up the wires to your unit.
#71
under renovations....
iTrader: (2)
there's different versions of the 5901. I have LC2 and it had wires bundled up together different than what this DYI instruction is or the manual from original 5901
I haven't been able to find the specific instruction for LC2 so you need to take the old install instruction manual and match it up the wires to your unit.
I haven't been able to find the specific instruction for LC2 so you need to take the old install instruction manual and match it up the wires to your unit.
#74
I just ordered my viper5902 along with tilt sensor, parameter sensor, glass break sensor... My question is do since we already have a automatic trunk using the key fob do we still need Trunk Release Solenoid 522T kit? I'm guessing not cause i'm hoping the viper5902 will work with the oem trunk solenoid.
#75
Race Director
No.
#76
A'ight thanks bro. The only other thing i'm worried about is the freakin XK01 Module. I ordered it through buy.com along with my $314.00 viper5902 so I was wondering likely it might not be for the TL. I know the description said it can be flashed via pc so hopefully I can do that myself. If not that hopefully the local alarm shop here can flash it for me. I'm not really sure since I've never used the XK01 before so I'll see when it gets here.
#77
Race Director
A'ight thanks bro. The only other thing i'm worried about is the freakin XK01 Module. I ordered it through buy.com along with my $314.00 viper5902 so I was wondering likely it might not be for the TL. I know the description said it can be flashed via pc so hopefully I can do that myself. If not that hopefully the local alarm shop here can flash it for me. I'm not really sure since I've never used the XK01 before so I'll see when it gets here.
No, the XK01 will need to be flashed. You won't be able to do it yourself unless you purchase a bootloader. The alarm shop will charge you to flash it, I'm sure. Probably $25-50. The XK01 does door lock and alarm interface.
What are you using for a bypass module? You'll need one of those as well.
I don't understand why folks don't just use a canmax400dei or one of the other dockable doorlock/bypass combo units.
Good luck but my recommendation is to pay someone else to do it.
#78
under renovations....
iTrader: (2)
No offense, but it sounds like you should pay someone to install your alarm. Really, don't get upset, but you sound way too inexperienced to be tackling this.
No, the XK01 will need to be flashed. You won't be able to do it yourself unless you purchase a bootloader. The alarm shop will charge you to flash it, I'm sure. Probably $25-50. The XK01 does door lock and alarm interface.
What are you using for a bypass module? You'll need one of those as well.
I don't understand why folks don't just use a canmax400dei or one of the other dockable doorlock/bypass combo units.
Good luck but my recommendation is to pay someone else to do it.
No, the XK01 will need to be flashed. You won't be able to do it yourself unless you purchase a bootloader. The alarm shop will charge you to flash it, I'm sure. Probably $25-50. The XK01 does door lock and alarm interface.
What are you using for a bypass module? You'll need one of those as well.
I don't understand why folks don't just use a canmax400dei or one of the other dockable doorlock/bypass combo units.
Good luck but my recommendation is to pay someone else to do it.
so the canmax400dei will act as both the xk01 and the pkh34? if so would the wiring diy be the same?
#79
Race Director
If you want to persist, download both the DEI manual and the bypass/door-lock interface manual and head over to the12volt.com and do a lot of reading.