rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Ok. I'll try and keep this simple. I've been dealing with feedback on my system for a while now. I need suggestions.

I have narrowed it down to the stock OEM amp giving me the noise.

My system consists of:
2 hifonics amps rear of car
1 LOC 4 Channel David Navone
1 best buy LOC for the sub.

--I have run speaker wire back to have the LOC in the trunk along with some short RCA's.
--I have run the power cable and remote wire on opposite side of car.
--I have confirmed power cable is not causing interference with OEM radio (disconnected it and still getting feedback through the center speaker which is the only one still getting sound directly from the factory amp)
--I have confirmed by muting my aftermarket amp that it's not causing it
--I have run both the factory amp and aftermarket amp off a different power source (my gf's car battery) and the sound remained.
--I have taken source signal at speaker leads to the LOC from BEFORE the factory amp and it resolved the issue but the sound was not very loud even with LOC output at 9.5volts and amp at full gain. For this reason I put them back on after the factory amp.

I THINK my solution is to take the factory amp out of the equation...or figure out a way to shut it up. I would like to not lose the little sound I DO get from the center speaker from the factory amp, but at this point, I'd sacrifice that to get silence. Basically...grabbing signal after the OEM amp seems to be what is killing me...and grabbing signal before it is very low. It's very annoying when activating the bluetooth HFL or between songs.

I have searched to no avail...and I would cliffnote, but to help you'd really need to know the entire story of what I've already done to avoid making those suggestions again.

I would be forever grateful.
Thank you,
Jeremy.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Also:
When key is in ACC but car is not on...noise is NOT present.
Comes on when I turn on the car. It sounds like static. And it is NOT present at "0" volume and is present at "1" but does NOT get louder as you go higher on the volume knob. But you CAN hear the static/whine go along with the engine when driving.

PLEASE HELP!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Update:
Ok, I'm a freak. Been at this for 5 hours now...on and off.

It is NOT the stock amp.
On the aftermarket amp frequency in doesn't make a difference. Tried to switch from LOC to line level input on the amp and it didn't make a difference...still had feedback.

With stock amp disconnected completely I got feedback and it got worse as I had to up the gain on the aftermarket amp.
With aftermarket amps off (disc. from battery) I got feedback from OEM amp through the center channel.

This leads me to believe the source of the noise is coming from before that. Namely, the OEM radio.

NOW...what do I do? I read in the amp manuals that if the source is the sound problem...I need to run a direct wire to the battery and to ground and not rely on stock oem wiring run in the dash. What do you all think? Is this the solution?

How do I eliminate engine noise from the OEM radio?

I tried thinking of all electronics I've added...accord bumper fog lights...drl module...I bypassed them and they didn't make a difference. Should I pull the OEM radio and try grounding it properly or running a new power source directly to the battery? What are you guys' thoughts.

PLEASE!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I have the i-simple...which is the only thing mounted behind the OEM radio that I have added. Could this have caused any problem?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Ok...will running my own power to the OEM radio eliminate the problem?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

No help for the weary huh?
Please...
I can add now...tried running direct constant line to the battery outside the car to both the constant and 12V turn on line to the OE headunit and no dice.

I don't get it. Is there a engine sound suppression device that might have gone bad here?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

any recommendations for something to shut the stock amp or aftermarket amp up?

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

Hey man.. sorry took me so long to respond.. I JUST installed my iSimple and have no static..

So, with everything you installed uninstalled you still get static from the factory radio? I would check every wire with a multimeter.. every wire that yo put in. I think that it is grounding issue..

But if there is nise before the factory amp, then you could be right.. that it is the facotry amp causing it.. I would take everything out just to be sure it has nothing with the oem amp.

BukvaMan

the OEM amp is noisy, that is for sure.

best thing is to bypass it completely

RBeachTL

I'm not sure how you disconnected the stock amp. If you are getting your signal for your aftermarket amps from your speaker outputs, I'm not sure what you get when the stock amp is disconnected.

When adding amps to the speaker outputs your input signal should be good so the most likely issue is the grounding of the aftermarket amps or your LOCs. You should try one amp at a time and really check out your grounds.

Which Hifonics amps do you have? The Titans have a speaker level input so you wouldn't need the LOC. The other models have balanced inputs so you could be better off takeing the HU signal before the stock amp and sending it directly to the amp.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I used to have Zeus, with no issues. Now I have the Titan 4408. (something like that).
I tried taking signal before the OEM amp...still had the hiss.

I tried bypassing the LOC and connecting to the speaker level inputs and the hiss no longer went away at volume "0". It does with the LOC connected (No hiss at 0 but yes constant hiss from 1 and up)

. I'm now thinking maybe it's a problem with my aftermarket amp. Or what about this...am I giving it too much voltage taking the signal from my aftermarket amp? Or even the HU...is it possible it's sending too high a voltage signal for the aftermarket amp to handle? At speaker level input from after the OEM amp...the sound was superb but the hiss was much more noticeable and wouldn't shut up at 0...when I use the LOC it quiets the hiss down a bit. What if I'm hitting the aftermarket amp with too much voltage. The David Navone LOC ups the voltage to 9.5 volts to the aftermarket amp. Maybe I should use a multimeter to get around 5V per channel and then adjust the aftermarket amp accordingly.

I called David Navone again today...the guy is very patient and knowledgeable. He has been troubleshooting with me for a few weeks now. Guess what he told me to do...ask for his friend, who is local. See if he'll take a few minutes to take a look at my car. Guess who is "friend" is...the VP of JL Audio. I'm sure that dude has time for lil old me. Can't hurt I guess.

RBeachTL

Is the noise present with the engine off?

Do you have the manual for the amp? If not look here:

http://www.maxxsonics.net/manuals/hi...r%20Manual.pdf

The manual says the input signal range is .2 to 5 V. You should check page 10 for instructions on setting the system gain. This might be your problem.

BTW the LOC reduces the signal from the stock amp.

Good Luck.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for responding.
The noise is not present with the engine off.
Hmmm...I know the LOC reduces signal from the stock amp, but without it, I think I'm definitely feeding the aftermarket amp too much voltage directly from the OEM amp, right? It sounded good, but the hiss was worse.

Maybe I should use the LOC to tone the voltage down to the acceptalbe 5V range going INTO the aftermarket amp and then tune accordingly and see if it becomes inaudible or at least lower.

What do you think?

RBeachTL

Let me get this straight; with the engine off, you can listen to your system without the noise? At all volumes, including 0? When the engine is on, does the noise vary with RPM? What happens if you disconnect the input to the amps? What happens when you disconnect before the LOC?

Yes, the LOC reduces the stock amp output but it also converts the signal to a unbalanced line level signal that the amp expects. So yes if you are using the amp's RCA inputs then you need to use the LOC.

Yes, you need to set the LOC output to the amp's input voltage range.

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

David sent you to Manville because he has a TL. Both are great guys.

What volume on the OEM head are you maxing out at? I.E. what is the loudest you can turn it up? #35? 30?

Kirk

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Funny, I think that might be coincidence because he never remembered what car it was. He asked me if Miramar was close...I said yeah, about 5 min. from me! Dave is very nice to even entertain all of my phonecalls and questions with only the purchase of a LOC.

I messaged Manville on Linked...but haven't received a response. I feel strange asking for the VP of JL with my petty questions. If Dave gave him a heads up it would be a different story. I would LOVE to get this diagnosed finally!

So yesterday I tried everything...I put another 8 hours in with no resolution. I took out all T-taps and put in butt connector and cleaned up all my wiring. I pulled my 1AWG power cable out of the firewall and still had the sound coming from the center channel which is powered by the oem unit. I moved the headunit away from the opening and wires and there's no change in sound.

Yes...no noise with engine off...comes on when engine and system come on. If I disconnect the LOC it stops. I switched to the speakers level input and the only difference is that the noise is now louder and does NOT stop at volume "0". I bought a noise suppressor from metra and tried it at the factory amp...nothing...aftermarket amp...nothing...speaker input from the LOC...nothing....headunit constant...nothing...headunit on...nothing. Friday night i thought i'd mess with the ground for the alternator...I guess DC doesn't like AC and I fried my main fuse for the battery. I freaked out on that one. Luckily my bud at the dealership sold me another for $4.

I bought this car in January, and within a month I had installed the system...but I think I'm remembering that I always thought even the stock system was noisy when I would use bluetooth or when a cd was loading. Not to this extreme because obviously I've now amplified the problem. But I guess I have to just live with it or maybe it's radiated noise rather than coming down a wire or a ground loop. I don't know.

J.

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

sux man

did you ever try a multimeter on all the radio amp wires? one might be a bad wire giving more feedback.. or a loose connection..

RBeachTL

Sorry you are having so much trouble; don't get down these are some of the toughest problems to troubleshoot.

I'm sorry to keep asking about the characteristics of the noise but you need to try and isolate the source. You said that there is no noise with the engine off but then you said the noise starts with the engine starting and the system coming on. Does your audio system play with the engine off? If so is there noise present with the engine off and the system on. If the noise is not there with the engine off and the system playing then you most likely have noise from the alternator getting into your system somewhere. Also if the noise changes pitch with the engine RPMs that is another sign of alternator whine. If the noise is there with the engine off and the system playing then your problem could be either the LOC output level that we talked about before or you might have a defective component.

When you disconnected the LOCs was the amp still powered on?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Yes amp still powered on. The system does come on with the car off and only turned to "acc" and the noise is not there. I had thought it was alternator whine, but I have no idea where it's entering the system. I ran speaker wire directly from the back of the headunit to the speaker level inputs AND even tried to the LOC and still had the sound. That pretty much eliminated the OEM amp...unless it's feeding the whine into my aftermarket amp.

Trust me, I appreciate the help and don't mind the questions at all. Is there a way to stop the whine directly at the alternator? Or is that just the nature of the beast?

RJ, I did try to use the multimeter but was not sure what I was looking for with it. Voltage coming out of the speaker wires? Not sure. AC Voltage I'm assuming.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, also...the sound is the same at volume 1 as it is at 40...does NOT get louder...at 0 it's silent...and I get the whine at 1 and stays consistent...only change is it DOES change pitch with the RPM's of the car.

RBeachTL

OK; seems clear that you have alternator whine. I can think of two possible mechanisms; radiated noise from power cables or ground problems.

You said that your power to the aftermarket amp is on the opposite side of the car from the signal cables; so the problem is not likely radiated.

You also described the alternator whine is present in the center channel and the center is connected to the stock amp and it is the only speaker still connected to the stock amp. So if it were me I would try and see if I couldn't get the center cleaned up to start with. Can you disconnect the LOC and Hifonics amp from everything. If you disconnect the power, ground and signal from the LOC and amp and protect the stock speaker outputs then you should be able to tell if there is a problem at the HU and stock amp. If you can't get the stock configuration to work then I don't see how you have a chance with the rest. If you get the noise out of the stock setup then I would connect the LOC and work down the signal chain. If you get noise with the LOC then I would check the LOC grounding and so on with the Hifonics amp.

The alternator whine is usually caused by different ground potentials between your different components. When there is a potential difference between the grounds of the different components current will tend to run over your signal interconnects. This is how the noise gets into the audio system. So be very careful to have short cable runs on your grounds and make sure that the ground connections are clean and tight.

Good luck,

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

is there a way to check the grounds with the multimeter? Im new with using the multimeter and can only tell if the wire is completely bad..

RBeachTL

What you are trying to measure is the voltage potential between any given ground point and some reference. If your multimeter leads are long enough measure the voltage potential between the ground output and the neg. bat. terminal and compare this with the voltage drop between the other ground outputs for the HU or other device in your audio setup. What you want is for the potential difference between all ground points and the bat. neg. terminal to be the same. This keeps ground currents from flowing over your signal grounds.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thank you RBeach,
At this point I have 4 speaker wires running toward the back to the hifonics amp from the OEM amp and then 2 wires run back to the OEM front speaker wires at the OEM amp location (where I cut them). I ran the remote wire from the back of the head unit to my amps...right next to the power wire in the little channel next to the door sill. I don't think it's wire related at this point.
For ground...
At battery, I ran a 2nd 1AWG wire to another chassis ground point-no change
At headunit, I put in another ground wire first tapped into original ground for extra ground and also with original ground cut and just my new ground-no change.
At OEM amp, I ran an additional ground tied in and standalone-no change.
At Hifonics amp, I ran an additional ground tied in, then tried regrounding in a different location-no change.

I've taken the oem amp out of the equation, with no change, I've taken the hifonics amp out by cutting the connection at the battery with no change. Could it just be a bad headunit? Like a loud headunit? I am really starting to feel like it's being generated at the source. I don't have another one to try out, of course.

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

I have an extra one you can try out.. I can bring it down with me on 11/14 when im down there again.. let me know man..

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Wow...yeah, that would be greatly appreciated RJ. I'm at wits end with this thing already. If it works I'll just see about buying one, or buying yours or switching with you...hopefully that's all it is. I can take my center console and get my radio out in less than 10 min. at this point.

vinman1000

The problem you are having is with the noise canceling system. It is integrated with the radio. You have to disconnect two microphones to disable it. One is the headliner near the back windshield. The other is in the front headliner (actually the light console) near the front windshield. Note there are two microphones in there, one for the phone and the other for the noise canceling system. Once you do this you are good to go.

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

Np man.. only thing is that this radio face has chips on it.. so you probably dont want it unless there is a way to swap radio faces if this works.. I also dont have the code for this radio.. when I bought it the guy couldnt find the code since his car got wrecked..

I thought this was only on the 07-08 models?

RBeachTL

It looks like you've been working the grounds alright but I was suggesting that you try and get simpler before you add on your equipment. You said that you were getting the whine through your center speaker; if this is still the case then why not disconnect the LOC and the Hifonics amps and see if you still get the whine from the center channel. So what I'm suggesting is to disconnect not only the power but the signal and grounds from the aftermarket equipment. I'd also suggest removing your extra grounds to the HU and stock amps; this way you are back to as close a stock configuration as possible for the center channel. If you are getting the whine from this configuration then there is no need to troubleshoot the aftermarket equipment.

Just a thought.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

And a very good thought at that. I did try with my LOC disconnected on both ends and...all the speaker wires out of the car and the power disconnected from the hifonics...but have not gotten the system completely stock again to see if it's still there. I probably should have thought of that before permanently crimping my speaker wires in with butt connectors this weekend. I thought maybe the t-taps were picking up the sound and the install wasn't very clean either.

Could a capacitor cause pick up a noise? I guess that would lead me back to the sound issue being present from the center. I'm really starting to believe this is just a noisy stock system that I've now amplified to an annoying level.

About noise cancellation, I was under the impression that only 07 and 08's had that too. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I disconnected it on my gf's 08 accord because she would get some weird thump noises the amp would pick up when I put a bass tube in her car.

This last weekend I did remove all the added grounds I had put back in there since they didn't solve the problem I figured I didn't want to risk adding a ground loop sound to it.

RBeachTL

So was the whine present in the center channel with the LOC and Hifonics disconnected? I know that it will be a pain to connect the other speakers but just put some electrical tape around the individual speaker leads at the input to the LOC to insulate them and run the system through the center channel. Try a DVD and turn up the center channel. Check to see if the whine is present. If the whine is gone then connect up the LOC and repeat.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Sorry for the delayed response...didn't realize you had made suggestions.
Ok...here we go...I disconnected each speaker set individually at the hifonics with no change...
I took the capacitor out of the mix with no change....
I cut the center channel at the oem amp with no change....
I took the oem amp off the firewall with no change....
I retried cutting power to hifonics and noise still present at center channel.
What I also noticed today is noise is present with car off on acc, just a lot quieter so you can't hear it much until you turn on the car.

What I DID notice is that with when I ground the oem amp out while on using the remote turn on (this shorts and turns off the OEM amp) all noises stop from center channel and hifonics channels. This is slowly leading me more and more toward the OEM amp being noisy or having some sort of problem.

RBeachTL, what do you think about that? Is that viable? If the headunit was the source, it would be still make the noise even with the OEM amp cut off (due to me grounding it), right?...if it were the Hifonics the center channel would go silent when I took take that aspect out of the equation.

If it is the oem amp...I am just amplifying the problem and the LOC and hifonics and anything I've added really are not the problem.

What do you think?
I appreciate all your help!

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

Well I read this: http://www.bcae1.com/glisoltr.htm

It leads me to believe that if you isolated it to your oem amp, that the circuitry in your oem amp to cancel "noise" got fried somehow?

Have you tried a ground loop isolator yet? I forgot to mention that before.. we put one of those in my cuzs old car and it got rid of all the noise he was getting.

This is a good read I found on crutchfield when I was looking for the GLI we used on my cuzs car. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-oNSR24H...iclegroupid=17

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for those RJ...I had read about them...but wasn't sure. I'm only now really starting to belive it's the OEM amp...which would make sense because the noise didn't go away when I ran power from my gf's car to the amp...meaning it's the noise filter that's built in that's not doing it's job. Probably always had the problem but it's amplified now. Doesn't increase or with more volume so it's not in the amplification itself...it's just a dirty signal. Especially now that i noticed that it's present with the car off, just much lower.

I'm really thinking OEM amp...and shutting it up might be replacement...or something to that effect. The ground loop isolator...how would I install that for the OEM amp? I would need to kill the noise before it since I'm taking sound to the hifonics after it, no?

theseus

I bought a 2005 TL (no Nav.) that has a similar problem. The difference is I don't have any add on or mod. The entire audio system is oem. There is a buzz sound from the front center speaker when engine is running. Not always but most of the time. The buzz stops when the volume down to 0 (__) and starts once the volume is 01 or higher. It doesn't become louder when volume going higher. Increasing engine rpm makes the buzz's frequency a little higher but not much.

As my car is a cpo, I took it to 2 dealers. Both of them diagnosed the center channel speaker is defected. The speaker was replaced but the buzz still there. More diagnose found there is a loose connector and the problem is resolved by secure the connection. The service adviser said the connector is located behind (or near) the center channel speaker that connects the speaker to the amplifier.

One thing I don't understand is if the loose connector connects the speaker, why they didn't find it when replacing the center speaker the first time? My guess is the connector does not directly connect the speaker.

Sorry that I don't have any more details about the loose connector's location. And hope this information can help to figure out OP's problem.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for sharing your experience. You never know...it may help! I'm meeting up with a fellow member who is letting me swap amps and radio with him to test. I'll keep you all posted.

About the center channel, I have disconnected the center and still have the sound. If you pop out your center you can see what's in there. I wonder what connection was the issue!

J.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I swapped out the factory amp with HEATSEAKER (THANK YOU!) and it seems this is the source of the problem, although I believe it's present in his car too. Must be the noise suppression in the amp is not doing so hot. When I put his amp in my car, the noise was diminished...when I put mine in his it was worse...but either way, even his had a present slight buzz sound there. I've only managed to make mine worse because I'm amplifying it, obviously!

Hmmm...I turned the gains down a little and will have to grin and bare it. Oh well.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Ok...update.
Let me start by saying thank you to HEATSEAKER for letting me swap and to Bzyrice for offering to bring the radio down and giving me a hand.

1. HEATSEAKERS system also has a buzz sound, but much lower. I'm seeing more and more 04's complaining of this. It is only worse for those using the signal after the amp to run aftermarket amps. I put my amp in his car and his FACTORY system had a notably louder buzz. Factory amp even at a discount is still $280. That's a no go for me...I ain't spending that money to have a chance of it crapping on me and not being able to take the amp with me in the future.

TODAY I:
1. Ran jumper cables to ground my amps at the battery = same noise
2. Ran jumper cables to ground the ground loop isolators I bought from crutchfield = same noise
3. Installed the ground loop isolators mentioned above = same noise
4. Tried grounding the amp casing = same noise
5. Tried running my car with no battery = whine was NOTABLY louder and higher pited.
6. Tried regrounding the alternator = same noise
7. Tried disconnecting the 12MM bolt from the alternator = same noise
8. Tried having my car on with jumpers to my gf's car and her car radio is still fine(no bad alternator nor battery)
9. Bought high end gold plated RCA couplers so I no longer have RCA's...
Goes like this
OEM Radio (non nav)>OEM amp>my speaker wires run back to>LOC>couplers>amp>my wires back to 4 channels.

I HAVE noticed in last few days, my bass, although on the SUB line via LOC turns off when sound is put to the right of car.
I have blown my factory tweeter on the passenger side (confirmed by swapping)
My right rear speaker has bad highs, maybe blown or problem with it (i had repaired this myself previously).

My thoughts...
put in some kind of signal booster to put in after the OEM radio to boost signal strength to run straight to the amp and bypass the OEM amp and LOC altogether.
Change all 4 speakers (as it stands it's a frankenstein system...OEM tweets, hifonics mids, infinity low end rear fill, and audiobahn subs). THis is NOT the reason for my sound I don't think.

Another thing I noticed is that the our OEM front door speaker is 2 OHM and I've replaced it with a speaker that is 4 OHM but have kept the oem (assumably there is one?) crossover and tweeter.

Please help...it is the last thing that is driving me nuts about the car. OTher than that...I'm super happy.

Thank you,
J.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

For the benefit of anyone else with this problem.

I took apart dash, side of car and rear seats and vowed not to put it back together until I found the problem.

It is the OEM amp.

I bypassed it with my davidnavone line output converter right behind the OEM headunit and my rca's run down the middle of the car and the sound is gone.

Had to up the gain on my aftermarket amps so much that I got white noise now but I put the crutchfield ground loop isolators on it and it shut that up. The sounds is very flat...but I will put an audio control matrix in to boost signal up to a useful input for my amps so that I can equalize accordingly.

If you have engine noise...

read thru my post...I grounded and regrounded and bought filters and blockers and everything. And it was the OEM amp...that's all and that was the issue.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I posted this in another thread,
but for everyone that helped me or might need help for a final solution, here is my final solution.

DEATH...
I just wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Although I installed a slight variation of what you did. You were the guiding light that led me out of the cave that IS noise fuqqin pollution.
For the last 3 months I've taken apart and put back together and grounded and regrounded and moved and rewired and soldered and butt connected and tried EVERYTHING. No ridding myself of the dreaded alternator whine.

I recently figured out that it's my OEM amp that is producing the noise.
I bypassed it and ran my DavidNavone line output converter to the matrix in the trunk and it diminished the sound tremendously, but was still there and def. limited the amount of gain I could increase before making the whine/white noise unbearable again. I even went to the extreme of installing a kill switch on my remote wire to be able to completely silence the system when I wanted no noise. A solution, but not an acceptable permanent one.

Ok...here's where things get good. After breaking said switch for the remote wire last night...I decided I'd put in a nice LED blue one much closer to where I could reach it. Took apart my center console AGAIN and what do you know...I made the whine worse...by moving around my LOC...(I ran the RCA's down the middle of the car this last configuration)...so that was it...I had had enough...
I reread your thread and realized that I was GONNA make this thing work and eliminate the LOC altogether.

Today, I (for the first time ever) soldered all my sets of rca's, labeled and used quick disconnects to the signal behind the OEM headunit (here's one of the ways my install differs a bit)...I then ran the MATRIX and shoved it under the passenger plastic kick panel (yes, it fits...tight, but it does)....then disconnected the OEM amp altogether and ran my RCA's to the back. I DID have to install a DC filter on my sub amp because since it all comes on at once with the MATRIX I was getting a loud DEEP sub pop when I turned the car on. That stopped that. Also, I was working with a Hifonics Brutus class D amp for my subs...a hifonics zues for my mids (4 channel) and a hifonics titan (extra...due to my lack of earlier troubleshooting skills I had bought this to replace my zues)...I tried to think of a way to configure to use another amp to keep my center channel, but at the end of the day...I didn't feel like spending that money on a set of 3.5" speakers..AND wiring and having to house another amp back there. The center channel on +6 from the factory amp really doesn't account for much sound at all anyway and I don't own any DVD Audio's so I figured it was a sacrifice I'd make.

But the important part is that now...
I have NO ENGINE WHINE/NOISE/WHITE NOISE/CRAZY I WANT TO TRADE MY CAR IN AND I HATE IT DIE DIE DIE DIE NOISE at all.

Again, thank you for sharing your experience...you inadvertently are my hero. I will sleep well tonight.


-Jeremy.