mobilezen

Since the release of the P910i, many people have not taken a closer look at this phone because it looks like an exact clone of the P900 with some minor cosmetic changes...wrong. We'll get into that later. The ultimate question is "Does the P910i (or P910a) support the handsfree profile in order to work with the HFL? The answer is YES. I found on another website that there is a ritual needed to perform to get it to function:

* After pairing, you have to turn bluetooth on the P910i on and off to get it to connect.
* Manually connecting the P910i is mandatory as it will not do it automatically.
* The P910i does not display the signal strength or battery on the MID.

So what are the main differences of the P910i vs the P900?

1.) The addition of a keyboard/thumbpad
2.) Ability to expand up to 1 GB with Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo memory cards
3.) 262k color screen
4.) Comes with a 64MB memory card
5.) It has slightly less talk time. (13 hrs compared to 16 hrs)
6.) Available ringing profiles & text message templates

That is about all I could find. Now some of you might be wondering if the P900 could be upgraded in the future for HFL functionality. There is a member on howardforums that converted his P900 to the P910a ('a' denotes for America models that have 850mhz). The newly upgraded P900 did support the higher Sony Memory Stick Duo Pro memory cards but did not have the bluetooth abilities. More information as this develops.

JaffMan

I currently have a P900, and am really disappointed that it cannot be used with the TL for now. I am considering either the P910A or the Blackberry 7100t. Mostly, I use my current P900 for phone, calendar, contacts, and Instant Messaging.

Does anyone have an opinion as to which of these (P910A vs. 7100T) would best suit my needs, and easily integrate with the TL?

Am I missing a device that would better suit my needs?

Has anyone found that the lack of display of the battery and signal strength is too great a disadvantage to consider a device that will not display it on the TL?

Thank you.

And Mucho Thanks to Mobile Zen, who has been so informative and articulate. Props.

mobilezen

* I like the P910a as the Blackberry 7100T looks odd to me and I did not like the feel of it when I played with it some time ago. Naturally Sony Ericsson is where its at.

* lack of display for battery/RF, nah, it wouldn't bug me. Just mount your P910 somewhere visible.

rduncan

P910 Compatibility Report, Acura and BMW-compatible Bluetooth phones FAQ

General info:
Here's a list of compatibility info on the BMW Bluetooth system that I've compiled. It has a load of general info and links.

SonyEricsson P910 Compatibility with BMW Systems:
This document is focused on compatibility of the SonyEricsson P910 and all BMW Bluetooth systems. BMW Bluetooth Compatibility FAQ

Please send me any updates and I'll happily update the site with your P910 news of general info, and I'll send general compatibility reports to the X5world site (that is the best resource that I know).

Robert

mobilezen

Wow! That's an amazing writeup you did Robert.

To clear one thing up....If you decide to flash your P900 to some of the P910's compatibility like the MS DUO Pro, you will lose bluetooth. No one has been able to successfully do a full P900 to P910 flash.

Also, for anyone with a P910....please specify whether you own a P910i or P910a. There are firmware differences as well.

jerryjans

I just found a way for my S/EP910Ato work after pairing. After pairing all that shows up on the display is the signal strenth Icon but with no signal bars. If you try to make a call from the Acura phonebook or the Sony Phonebook you get "Connection Lost Proceed with Call?" Choose yes on the phone go to phone pick connections & you will see HFL.Click on HFL & pickoption transfer sound. Voila thats it, you have a connection. This should be done in a standing position only. When you receive a call all you do is click on the answer on the sterring wheel. For some reason there is a problem when dialing out to make the connection. Receiving is ok. I assume the manufacturer of this B/T device for Acura has to make some modifications. The P910 series does support the Hands Free Link. This compatibility issue reminds me of the Beta VHS issues when they first came out. Noone could agree on a system. There is a Blutooth standard & these manufacturers ignore it. There should be an accountavbility procedure & fines issued to those who do not comply. The consumer should not suffer anymore, let the manufacturer start paying penalties.

madas

has anyone heard if there is going to be an update so that the battery and signal strength show up on the Display? all the other SE phones do. Are there any phones with keyboards that do show the Battery and Signal strength?

Thanks

Graham

mobilezen

P910a
- Phone R4B002
- Bluetooth R2F
- Organizer R3A04
- CDA R3A04

P910i
- Phone R4B002
- Bluetooth R2F
- Organizer R3A04
- CDA R3A04

These are the newest firmware versions for the P910i/a. I have a P910a now...I'm having terrible luck getting this thing to pair with the TL. On the other hand, I had a P910i and it paired fine. I tried 3 times and got it to pair twice without fail. Unfortunately the person that I sold it to had trouble. The guys at SE are very aware of the problem. Some of my friends spoke to and emailed with the guys from the CES show in Vegas this past month. Odd thing is that their P910's work seamlessly with their TL...I smell developer's firmware version somewhere.

brianmski

@mobilezen....I've been wanting to trade my p900 for the p910a but I am going to wait until I know it works with the handsfree link.
I hope they decide to do ssomething sooner than later. dont know how long I can hold out.

mobilezen

As of right now, the newest firmware version can only be upgraded via Sony Ericsson service centre instead of the sync station. Looks like BMW and their bluetooth company is working the kinks out. I haven't heard anything back from JCI. ...another Ah well....hopefully sooner than later.

rets

mobilezen.... Please test P910i with RL... try one...


https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...67#post1137267

mobilezen

If the HFL in the RL is also made by JCI, it will not work. I have not been getting positive responses from car manufacturers as well as phone manufacturers conscerning the problem. BMW knew about the issues and they got in contact with their HFL people and sure enough, it was fixed within a month. As for JCI, they sent me back an email saying "We didn't test the phone. We are aware of the incompatibility. Sorry for the inconvenience." That made me mad! The good guys at Sony Ericsson and Motorola are looking into it. Not sure where I stand with Nokia though but overall we're making progress. If I get a chance to swing by the Acura dealer, I'll give it a whirl...otherwise for now, its just a shot in the dark if it works or not.

rets

So, P910i could work with TL, but not RL... Who's TL's manufactorer??? Acura.com listed the identical phones for TL/RL...

mobilezen

The P910i I tested at the time worked 2 out of 3 times pairing with the TL so I figured it worked. Unfortutunately it didn't. The manufacturer for the TL is JCI (johnson controls inc)...I think the chances of it working with the RL...are much better. If you reside in North America though, I would look into the P910a instead .

rets

Ok, so could you make/edit your first post clearer for these matters? Ppl would like to know "yes or no"... the post on the top seems P910i is definitely working with TL. Meanwhile, if P910a is the better model to have, could you also list it on the top... Thanks...

rets

Another note...

http://bluetoothcar.typepad.com/main...ricsson_p.html

MeltdowN

As most of you with a P910i/a know, the phone actually does support the Handsfree bluetooth profile required to connect to the TL's HFL. However, it doesn't work as it should. To understand the reason why it doesn't work, you'll need to know a little bit about bluetooth.

A bluetooth connection involves a Master and a Slave. It is the Master that initiates the connection. Once a connection is established, it is possible for the slave to request for a role switch to become the master. In the case of the P910, it ALWAYS wants to be the master , so if the bluetooth connection was initiated by another device, it accepts the connection and then requests for a role change. Acura's HFL, however, does not support this request, so when it receives a role switch request, it ignores it. Not receiving a response, the P910a, then drops the connection.

Now, when you start the car with the phone's Bluetooth already activated, the TL looks for phones that has been paired with it. It finds the P910 and initiates a connection (as the master). The P910 accepts the connection and then requests for a role change, which is ignored by the TL. The connections ends up being dropped. That is why when you turn off your Bluetooth and turn it back on from the phone, it usually ends up working, because now the P910 ends up initiating the connection (as master). The TL has no problem accepting the connection as a slave (and makes no request for a role switch) and thus the connection stays active .

Now to make the P910a work all the time, SonyEricsson must change the part in its implementation that requires that it be the Master for all Bluetooth connections. So, if someone has contacts with SonyEricsson, try to convince them to release a firmware upgrade which fixes this issue .

mobilezen

@ Meltdown... Have you tried the new firmware with the P910a? It actually works pretty well.

edit: The master as you call it does not always initiate the connection. Not sure where you got that from. i.e. pairing headset with handset. In that case the headset needs to be active first before the handset can act upon the connection.

The P910's bluetooth stack needs to be updated. That's all. I don't know what else you are talking about. You're making it confusing for everyone including me.

MeltdowN

I haven't taken delivery of my TL yet, most probably tomorrow or Monday. So most of what I'm describing is based on what I've read based on other users' experiences and my experience during the test drive.

Yeah I have the latest firmware.162005/9 R4A11. It works, but still not perfect right Doesn't autoconnect when you start the car right?

BTW, the terminology 'master' and 'slave' is used in the Bluetooth Specification document Ver 1.1. I was not talking about the connection made during pairing. I was talking about the connections made after the phone and car have been successfully paired. Once paired, ideally, either the car or the phone should be capable of initiating a handsfree bluetooth connection, depending on which device is switched on last. In the case of the car and phone, it is usually the car that is switched on last, so it is the car that initiates the connection (not pairing but the HF connection).

Sorry didn't mean to confuse anyone, I just thought I'd share this bit of technical information I got from Johnson Controls. I'm thinking of writing a Symbian app that _might_ be able to override this behavior of the P910, so was just calling out to other phone programmers, if there are any on the forum.

mobilezen

I challenge you to write something because now you're talking about seizing control of the arm chip and overriding it to behave differently. Hence at the end, you're doing risky business and could cause *gasp* a meltdown.

MeltdowN

Thankfully, the app doesn't need to go that low-level and perform assembly level operations. Symbian exposes two levels of the Bluetooth API, one low-level (L2CAP) and another a bit more high level (RFCOMM). So theoretically, an OS modification (i.e. Bluetooth stack) _might_ not even be necessary. The Handsfree profile, like other profiles like Headset, etc are actually implemented using the Generic Bluetooth Profile (which itself is implemented on top of the Bluetooth stack). The profile implementation can decide whether to perform a role switch or not, so I'm thinking, maybe write an alternate implementation (there are already many open source HF implementations), that doesn't perform a role switch. Obviously, it would be much easier if SE would just look into the matter and provide an update like Palm did

mobilezen

I hate programming...I hate assembling... I hate recompiling...so if you like any of the stuff I hate, by all means, have at it and let us know when you check yourself into the looney house.

jerzeygroove

I just got my p910a and i have an acura tl 04 with the car phone feature. I am so upset that i have to do all of those annoying setups just to work the phone with my car. I had a t616 and it worked flawlessly. I would figure that a phone that is worth so much more wouldn't be as good as the t616 bluetooth feature. I've been reading forums around everywhere but it's been quiet for a while. Is there an update on the bluetooth???

MeltdowN

My feelings exactly. There's no update yet. I'm emailed SE a few times, and apparently they have no information as to whether this issue will even be considered for upcoming firmware fixes; in other words, they don't give a flying f#%@ that their flagship phone doesn't work with any cars, the way it's meant to. I think they should remove 'Handsfree' profile from their list of supported profiles and not dupe more people into purchasing such an expensive phone, or at the very least print a clear disclaimer stating that it doesn't work as expected with most cars. However, I should add that, if not for this huge flaw, the P910 is a perfect phone.

djsohodc

Saw the posts regarding the compatiblity issues with Sony Ericsson P910a and TL, I just got my '05 TL on Monday this week and was disappointed to see it wasn't working correctly. Who do we need to email to start the petition going to fix this?

THanks!

jerzeygroove

any updates on this?

MeltdowN

The latest firmware for the P910a (R5A02) still deosn't play nice with the TL.

jerzeygroove

UGH!!! Where's this petition?

MeltdowN

I don't think anybody's prepared a petition yet. I'm down for it though, if somebody wants to be nice enough to prepare it I still think the P910 is the best overall PDA phone around, even though it's like 2 years old.

jerzeygroove

this damn phone....i haven't used my car bluetooth feature since i switched to p910a from t616. the t616 worked perfectly with the car. i'm going to sell it on ebay with couple of programs and the proclip if anyone is interested.

djsohodc

I love this phone and I can't believe that Sony Ericsson doesn't have anything to fix this. The problem lies in the bluetooth interface, not just with the TL but with any other Bluetooth device. they just need it to fix this master/slave thing so it's more passive in nature, like the T616's interface.

Did you just call SE help line to find out about any software updates? what is the number that you called? I think the best way to go about this is to tell SE how badly they take care of early adopters like us and how PALM users were taken care of and given a fix for this problem.

If anyone has a number or a department to ask for... let's all call or email!

mobilezen

I worked with one of the guys from the BMW forums who (both of us) contacted JCI, SE, Nokia, Motorola and also BMW's bluetooth. This was about 5-6 months ago. No one really gave us a solid answer, just that they were working on a possible solution. I know that Sony Ericsson is changing the way that bluetooth interacts with other bluetooth peripheals and making it more "passive" as djsohodc said. There was an bulletin a couple days ago that I read about.

At this point, it is not a problem with the TL, it is a problem with Sony Ericsson and how they want bluetooth to interact. Of course, it could always be a problem with Acura's system but unlikely.

MeltdowN

Well the P990 has been officially announced.

mobilezen

No 850mhz, no EDGE, no care. Granted it looks like a great device but the HP 6515 looks even better and has more software support being that its WM5...but we shall see. I'll probably pick up a P990 just for kicks.

MeltdowN

True, but the P990 does have WiFi. Also, IMHO, Symbian's actual phone functionality is superior to WM's. I haven't tried WM5 yet though.

mobilezen

You just contradicted yourself. :lol: How do you know Symbian's phone functionality is better than Windows Mobile? The P990 won't be out till 2006 according to many reports. If you're talking phone functionality...its all the same. You dial, you speak. You get a call, you answer...what else is there?

MeltdowN

I use a WM 2003SE phone (MDA III), so I know pretty well how WM functions. The phone app on WM sucks. Ever a regular Motorola phone's phone app (without touchscreen) is far better than WM's. Nothing I said is contradictory, I said I haven't tried out Windows Mobile 5.0, which is only out as unofficial ROM releases for some phones, and is not used in any currently available GSM phones. Here are just a few reasons why Symbian's phone app is far superior:

• Ability to copy and paste DTMF tones (during a call)
• Ability to easily conference multiple calls
• Ability to easily switch back and forth between call waits
• Ability to speed dial with one touch
• Ability to turn on speaker phone either from the touchscreen or via menu (not having to hold down some button for 4 seconds)

So there's more to a phone app than just pressing some numbers and hitting dial. The reason is quite obvious, Symbian has much more experience than Microsoft writing a phone OS, so obv their OS/apps have matured and therefore are more intuitive. Maybe with WM5, MS's phone app has improved too.

mobilezen

I like both operating systems but Windows Mobile has a bigger following. My only concern is for devices like the HP 6515...in any case, back to the topic...

ddg874

anybody have updates on this? I am still waiting for S/E to fix this p910i problem or at least give us a convenient way to use the phone with the car without sitting and not driving until the connection works.

djsohodc

Im Back people... still with my beautiful P910a, but still not using the HFL because it either does not work or takes too damn long to pair. I'm looking to get the P990i since it has hit around $650, and want to know if it will work with HFL.

Anybody know fer sure?

Thanks & Happy Holidays and New Year!