Is this possible??
05-03-2012, 06:56 PM
#1
Is this possible??
This is what I'd like to do. I want to get a decent set of components for the front while running the center and rears off the stock amp. Possibly changing out the center speaker for something I can drop in with no mods? I'm thinking of getting a 4ch amp, using the 2 remaining channels to power a single 10. So for starters I'm wondering if this is possible or would there be an easier solution to upgrade? Second, if I was able to go this route would I be able to control the volume of the sub through the factory headunit assuming the amp I get has high level inputs?
I will prolly get a custom enclosure made from the shop in gig harbor, sealed for a 10", either IDQ or JL 10w3v3, unsure on amp and unsure on a set of comps (recommendations anyone??). Aside from an amp installation kit, is there anything else I would need to complete this project??
Thanks much..
I will prolly get a custom enclosure made from the shop in gig harbor, sealed for a 10", either IDQ or JL 10w3v3, unsure on amp and unsure on a set of comps (recommendations anyone??). Aside from an amp installation kit, is there anything else I would need to complete this project??
Thanks much..
05-03-2012, 07:37 PM
#2
Racer
Yep. Definitely possible. For the center I think you can even fit a shallow 6.5 with no mods. I believe I Hate Cars has done that. Yes, you can retain control of the sub level through the head unit. For amp and components there are lots of options. What's your budget? You'll want to allocate some money for sound deadening, but other than that with what you said you should be good to go.
05-03-2012, 07:39 PM
#3
This is what I'd like to do. I want to get a decent set of components for the front while running the center and rears off the stock amp. Possibly changing out the center speaker for something I can drop in with no mods? I'm thinking of getting a 4ch amp, using the 2 remaining channels to power a single 10. So for starters I'm wondering if this is possible or would there be an easier solution to upgrade? Second, if I was able to go this route would I be able to control the volume of the sub through the factory headunit assuming the amp I get has high level inputs?
I will prolly get a custom enclosure made from the shop in gig harbor, sealed for a 10", either IDQ or JL 10w3v3, unsure on amp and unsure on a set of comps (recommendations anyone??). Aside from an amp installation kit, is there anything else I would need to complete this project??
Thanks much..
I will prolly get a custom enclosure made from the shop in gig harbor, sealed for a 10", either IDQ or JL 10w3v3, unsure on amp and unsure on a set of comps (recommendations anyone??). Aside from an amp installation kit, is there anything else I would need to complete this project??
Thanks much..
Now, to get the head unit to control the subwoofer volume, like it currently does, you will need to run the subwoofer signal (either pre-factory amp or post-factory amp) back to the aftermarket amp for the subwoofer. You will still need to run a signal back for the front components.
I am a dealer for Image Dynamics (as well as many other brands), what is your budget for a set of comps for the front?
The only things you would need besides what you have listed is:
-Line Driver (if taking signal before the factory amp)
-Line Out Converter (if taking signal after the factory amp and your aftermarket amp won't accept high level inputs directly)
-Wire, you will need new speaker wire for the front components
-Sound Deadening, a must in our cars for the doors at least
-Trim rings for the door speakers
Now, as far as the center channel, you can definitely get a replacement and it's not all that hard to install, but I don't know of any "Drop in" direct replacement option. Most options will require a little bit of work to get it in there.
The following users liked this post:
Seatown1two (05-07-2012)
05-03-2012, 09:24 PM
#4
Yes, this is all possible (well, most of it) and there are a few different ways of accomplishing it. This is about the easiest way to upgrade, especially if you are adding a subwoofer as well. With our cars, you can either take the pre-factory amp signal or after factory amp. Each way would cause you to do things a little differently. If you go post factory amp, you can do as you said and either use a line out converter or wire directly to the high level inputs (if available). If you go pre-amp, you will get a flatter and cleaner signal, but I recommend you buy a line driver to boost the less than 1 volt at full volume our radio gives out. Without enough voltage from your radio, you will introduce noise and/or never give the amp enough voltage to make the RMS watts it is rated for. Now, SOME amps (not all) may have a problem with the pre-amp signal if they don't accept balanced inputs (our head unit put out a differential balanced signal to the factory amp). If it accepts balanced, you have no worries. BTW, this is of no concern if you take the signal after the factory amp....get whatever amp you want.
Now, to get the head unit to control the subwoofer volume, like it currently does, you will need to run the subwoofer signal (either pre-factory amp or post-factory amp) back to the aftermarket amp for the subwoofer. You will still need to run a signal back for the front components.
I am a dealer for Image Dynamics (as well as many other brands), what is your budget for a set of comps for the front?
The only things you would need besides what you have listed is:
-Line Driver (if taking signal before the factory amp)
-Line Out Converter (if taking signal after the factory amp and your aftermarket amp won't accept high level inputs directly)
-Wire, you will need new speaker wire for the front components
-Sound Deadening, a must in our cars for the doors at least
-Trim rings for the door speakers
Now, as far as the center channel, you can definitely get a replacement and it's not all that hard to install, but I don't know of any "Drop in" direct replacement option. Most options will require a little bit of work to get it in there.
Now, to get the head unit to control the subwoofer volume, like it currently does, you will need to run the subwoofer signal (either pre-factory amp or post-factory amp) back to the aftermarket amp for the subwoofer. You will still need to run a signal back for the front components.
I am a dealer for Image Dynamics (as well as many other brands), what is your budget for a set of comps for the front?
The only things you would need besides what you have listed is:
-Line Driver (if taking signal before the factory amp)
-Line Out Converter (if taking signal after the factory amp and your aftermarket amp won't accept high level inputs directly)
-Wire, you will need new speaker wire for the front components
-Sound Deadening, a must in our cars for the doors at least
-Trim rings for the door speakers
Now, as far as the center channel, you can definitely get a replacement and it's not all that hard to install, but I don't know of any "Drop in" direct replacement option. Most options will require a little bit of work to get it in there.
Sorry so many questions I just want to make sure that I plan correctly. Is the difference between going pre amp or post amp HUGE in terms of SQ? If I do need a line out converter or line driver, what is the proper way to set the gains on those, and then the amp?
As far as price range goes, I don't necessarily have one atm. What I was thinking was to first upgrade the front stage with a 4 channel amp and add on the subwoofer at a later date. What can I get for a decent set of comps for around $150-$200? As far as an amp, I'd like something that will sound great for a decent price, be a good match for whatever comps I decided on and would like the other 2 channels bridged to be around 300-400 RMS.
One last thing, would I need to change out all of the speaker wire? Is it not recommended to use the existing wire? I do understand I would need additional wire to AT LEAST reach from the factory amp to where ever I put the amp.
PS... Would be great if there is an amp that would be small enough to put under the passenger seat.
05-03-2012, 09:45 PM
#5
Team Owner
If you relocate the airbag module and take the shield out, you can fit a small amp under the passenger seat. I have a JL HD600/4 under there. You can fit a small amp under the driver's seat with no modifications.
Don't upgrade the center unless you plan on using a processor that has 5.1 surround. Only one processor I know of that does that and it's a POS. Very little information comes from the center when listening to music.
Don't upgrade the center unless you plan on using a processor that has 5.1 surround. Only one processor I know of that does that and it's a POS. Very little information comes from the center when listening to music.
05-03-2012, 10:33 PM
#6
Suzuka Master
Seatown, You may want to read thru this thread that I started. There are a couple of us doing similar builds and there is alot of information already covered.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/mild-grade-fever-854353/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/mild-grade-fever-854353/
05-03-2012, 10:39 PM
#7
Thanks for the responses... I might need a bit more explanation on getting the signal to another amp as I have only dealt with systems where I replaced the head unit that had rca outs. You mentioned "pre amp" or "post amp". I'm assuming there are two harnesses connected to the factory amp. One that connects to the factory headunit and another that has all the speaker leads. So when you say "post amp" I'm assuming you talking about cutting the speaker lead whether it be front or sub and connecting that directly to the high level input of the amp?Correct! And if I do so, I do not need anything extra?As long as your amp accepts high level inputs, no...but you will be stuck with the noise and the processing the factory amp gives you. Now for "pre amp" I'll be getting the signal directly from the headunit in which I would need a line driver to boost the signal? Correct! You can try to use an amp without a line driver, you will just need to turn your gains up probably all the way. But has been done. Again, going this way, make sure the amp accepts a balanced input, ot you COULD have noise.
Sorry so many questions I just want to make sure that I plan correctly. Is the difference between going pre amp or post amp HUGE in terms of SQ? I personally wouldn't pay to upgrade the front speakers and amp and recommend to go pre-amp. Seems like you are paying almost the same and not reaching the full sq potential of the system If I do need a line out converter or line driver, what is the proper way to set the gains on those, and then the amp? If you do pre factory amp and use a line driver or post factory amp with a LOC (if needed), you will want to set it as high as possible, but not so high that it clips the amp on the input side. Each amp says the maximum voltage it can accept. Some are 4, 8 or even 16volts balanced. So you can use a multimeter to measure the voltage you are sending out to make sure you maximize the input, and more then likely you will have your gains all the way down.
As far as price range goes, I don't necessarily have one atm. What I was thinking was to first upgrade the front stage with a 4 channel amp and add on the subwoofer at a later date. What can I get for a decent set of comps for around $150-$200? In that price range, Image Dynamics makes a nice set (CTX65cs) and for about $100 more, you can upgrade to the CXS64v.2. This set has an improved woofer, crossover (that has a setting accounting for the tweeter being placed for from the woofer), and the tweeter itself is slightly larger, which fits out factory opening almost perfectly. As far as an amp, I'd like something that will sound great for a decent price, be a good match for whatever comps I decided on and would like the other 2 channels bridged to be around 300-400 RMS. Image Dynamics make a couple amps that fit this. A Q450.4, which will be the most expensive of the ones I am mentioning, an i4500, the least expensive, and an i5800, which would be a 5-channel solution with 500x1 @ 2ohm on the sub channel.
One last thing, would I need to change out all of the speaker wire? Is it not recommended to use the existing wire? I do understand I would need additional wire to AT LEAST reach from the factory amp to where ever I put the amp. The factory front components are run off a single positive and negative wire for each side. The factory then splits off that wire to go to the tweeter and put an inline capacitor on the tweeter for the crossover. Your component set will have a passive crossover. You can use the factory wiring for the front door speakers, of course by extending over to the passive crossover. But, you will need to run new wire from the passive crossover to the tweeters (after you pop the tweeter out, you can drop the wire down very easy). You then will run wire from the passive crossover to the amplifier.
PS... Would be great if there is an amp that would be small enough to put under the passenger seat.
Sorry so many questions I just want to make sure that I plan correctly. Is the difference between going pre amp or post amp HUGE in terms of SQ? I personally wouldn't pay to upgrade the front speakers and amp and recommend to go pre-amp. Seems like you are paying almost the same and not reaching the full sq potential of the system If I do need a line out converter or line driver, what is the proper way to set the gains on those, and then the amp? If you do pre factory amp and use a line driver or post factory amp with a LOC (if needed), you will want to set it as high as possible, but not so high that it clips the amp on the input side. Each amp says the maximum voltage it can accept. Some are 4, 8 or even 16volts balanced. So you can use a multimeter to measure the voltage you are sending out to make sure you maximize the input, and more then likely you will have your gains all the way down.
As far as price range goes, I don't necessarily have one atm. What I was thinking was to first upgrade the front stage with a 4 channel amp and add on the subwoofer at a later date. What can I get for a decent set of comps for around $150-$200? In that price range, Image Dynamics makes a nice set (CTX65cs) and for about $100 more, you can upgrade to the CXS64v.2. This set has an improved woofer, crossover (that has a setting accounting for the tweeter being placed for from the woofer), and the tweeter itself is slightly larger, which fits out factory opening almost perfectly. As far as an amp, I'd like something that will sound great for a decent price, be a good match for whatever comps I decided on and would like the other 2 channels bridged to be around 300-400 RMS. Image Dynamics make a couple amps that fit this. A Q450.4, which will be the most expensive of the ones I am mentioning, an i4500, the least expensive, and an i5800, which would be a 5-channel solution with 500x1 @ 2ohm on the sub channel.
One last thing, would I need to change out all of the speaker wire? Is it not recommended to use the existing wire? I do understand I would need additional wire to AT LEAST reach from the factory amp to where ever I put the amp. The factory front components are run off a single positive and negative wire for each side. The factory then splits off that wire to go to the tweeter and put an inline capacitor on the tweeter for the crossover. Your component set will have a passive crossover. You can use the factory wiring for the front door speakers, of course by extending over to the passive crossover. But, you will need to run new wire from the passive crossover to the tweeters (after you pop the tweeter out, you can drop the wire down very easy). You then will run wire from the passive crossover to the amplifier.
PS... Would be great if there is an amp that would be small enough to put under the passenger seat.
If you relocate the airbag module and take the shield out, you can fit a small amp under the passenger seat. I have a JL HD600/4 under there. You can fit a small amp under the driver's seat with no modifications.
Don't upgrade the center unless you plan on using a processor that has 5.1 surround. Only one processor I know of that does that and it's a POS. Very little information comes from the center when listening to music.
Don't upgrade the center unless you plan on using a processor that has 5.1 surround. Only one processor I know of that does that and it's a POS. Very little information comes from the center when listening to music.
Trending Topics
05-03-2012, 11:41 PM
#8
Ok will likely go with the pre amp option with a line driver. Can I use one line driver for the front & sub signal or would i need 2 of them?
I'm checking out amps atm and there are a couple that caught my eye... First is ZED Draconia II and second is Arc audio KS 300.4. Any opinions would be appreciated... Do both of these amps accept balanced inputs?
I'm checking out amps atm and there are a couple that caught my eye... First is ZED Draconia II and second is Arc audio KS 300.4. Any opinions would be appreciated... Do both of these amps accept balanced inputs?
05-04-2012, 02:08 AM
#9
Racer
If you buy a line driver like the Rockford BLD or the Audiocontrol matrix then you dont have to worry about whether your amp accepts balanced differential inputs. If you want to maintain control over the sub through your head unit you'll probably want to get the Matrix since it has 6 channels. This would also give you additional flexibility if you ever want to run your components active or amp your rears and center. I haven't used either of those amps, but I have heard good things about both.
05-04-2012, 08:05 AM
#10
Ok will likely go with the pre amp option with a line driver. Can I use one line driver for the front & sub signal or would i need 2 of them?
I'm checking out amps atm and there are a couple that caught my eye... First is ZED Draconia II and second is Arc audio KS 300.4. Any opinions would be appreciated... Do both of these amps accept balanced inputs?
I'm checking out amps atm and there are a couple that caught my eye... First is ZED Draconia II and second is Arc audio KS 300.4. Any opinions would be appreciated... Do both of these amps accept balanced inputs?
ID Q450.4 (Class A/B) - $459
Arc 300.4 (Class H) - $449
Zed Draconia II (Class D) - $536
I'll let others chime in with their opinions about each. They are each their own, very different amps, in class and presentation. Sound wise, they are all 3 really good.
05-04-2012, 09:43 AM
#11
Suzuka Master
My only comment about amplification is I believe that you would be happier with a 5 channel. And it is more flexible long term. front stage 4 channels bridged to components, dedicated sub channel. Or front components active with dedicated sub, or one channel each for front and rears and dedicated sub.
05-06-2012, 07:50 PM
#12
Couple questions about comps. I've read awesome reviews for the CTX65CS but that magnet looks pretty big... Will that even fit in the doors? Where is the best place to mount the crossovers that they come with and would I still need to use the crossovers on the amp?? Last thing, will the tweeters fit in the stock location with the stock grill and how would I go about mounting those?
05-07-2012, 09:48 AM
#13
Racer
Couple questions about comps. I've read awesome reviews for the CTX65CS but that magnet looks pretty big... Will that even fit in the doors? Where is the best place to mount the crossovers that they come with and would I still need to use the crossovers on the amp?? Last thing, will the tweeters fit in the stock location with the stock grill and how would I go about mounting those?
If I was going to do it again, I would just throw the crossovers on top of the plastic panels on each side of the car (under the steering wheel on the driver's side and under the glove box on the passenger side) You can secure them with velcro so they don't slide around. Other places - trunk, under the seat(s). The only place I'd be careful about mounting them is in the doors, since they could be exposed to moisture.
If you buy the right amp, you can ditch the passive crossovers and run the CTX's active.
Last edited by rich20730; 05-07-2012 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Typo
05-07-2012, 11:10 AM
#14
You'll have to cut a little metal out of your doors and add a spacer to get them to fit, but that's probably going to be the case for any decent component set.
If I was going to do it again, I would just throw the crossovers on top of the plastic panels on each side of the car (under the steering wheel on the driver's side and under the glove box on the passenger side) You can secure them with velcro so they don't slide around. Other places - trunk, under the seat(s). The only place I'd be careful about mounting them is in the doors, since they could be exposed to moisture.
If you buy the right amp, you can ditch the passive crossovers and run the CTX's active.
If I was going to do it again, I would just throw the crossovers on top of the plastic panels on each side of the car (under the steering wheel on the driver's side and under the glove box on the passenger side) You can secure them with velcro so they don't slide around. Other places - trunk, under the seat(s). The only place I'd be careful about mounting them is in the doors, since they could be exposed to moisture.
If you buy the right amp, you can ditch the passive crossovers and run the CTX's active.
05-07-2012, 11:45 AM
#15
Racer
Damn, I might have to go a different route. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with cutting metal out of the front doors... So with the crossovers, its either one or the other? Either I go active or use the passive crossovers that come with the comps? Also, mounting the tweets, any input?
The tweeters from the CTX set aren't a perfect fit in the stock locations, but you can get them in there without too much modding. You can either attach the CTX tweeter to the underside of the stock grills or you can cut a hole in the stock grill and mount them on top. I tried attaching them to the bottom of the grill at first which maintained the stock look, but I didn't like how low they sat and the opening on the stock grill is tiny so I was worried about the sound being blocked. I currently have them mounted the second way. Here's a picture:
I'm sure there are lots of other ways to mount them depending on how creative you are. Another option would be to buy the Image Dynamics CXS component set. It is a little more expensive, but you'd be getting a slightly better set of comps and it comes with the XS28 tweeters which I believe are a perfect fit for the stock locations. Trunk Monkey can confirm that if you're interested. Also, the XS28 tweeters are the same ones that they use in their top of the line component set so it's something worth considering.
05-07-2012, 11:21 PM
#16
Team Owner
Cutting metal is no big deal. All you have to do is make the "D" shaped hole into a circle to make the IDs fit.
05-08-2012, 12:47 PM
#17
I know the Audiocontrol Matrix is discontinued and replaced the the Matrix Plus, but is the Matrix Plus much better then the original Matrix? Should i just get the Matrix, though I would just ask before making the purchase.
05-11-2012, 11:32 AM
#18
So I'm trying to decide between my line driver options. Seems like the best way to go for this application would be an audiocontrol matrix pro or 2 RF-BLD. What do you guys think?
05-11-2012, 12:17 PM
#19
Suzuka Master
You may. Ot even need the line driver if your amp can take a low signal! It can always be added later if you find that your not satisfied. Should just need to run a single 2 channel line driver in any case and let your amp distribute the signals unless your trying to maintain the 5.1 surround sound
05-11-2012, 12:18 PM
#20
Neither. 3sixty.2 here for $200ish shipped!
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...sixty-2-a.html
I'll take this unit over the MS-8 any day. This does what it's supposed to do with no quirks, etc. Once I move into a house with a garage and have some security for my vehicle, I'll be selling my 3sixty.2 and adding, most likely, an Audison Bit.1
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...sixty-2-a.html
I'll take this unit over the MS-8 any day. This does what it's supposed to do with no quirks, etc. Once I move into a house with a garage and have some security for my vehicle, I'll be selling my 3sixty.2 and adding, most likely, an Audison Bit.1
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 05-11-2012 at 12:22 PM.
05-12-2012, 05:12 PM
#22
You may. Ot even need the line driver if your amp can take a low signal! It can always be added later if you find that your not satisfied. Should just need to run a single 2 channel line driver in any case and let your amp distribute the signals unless your trying to maintain the 5.1 surround sound
05-13-2012, 04:13 PM
#23
Suzuka Master
Not typically! your amp will take the full range stereo signal and distribute the proper frequencies to the sub channel
05-14-2012, 11:54 PM
#24
Man installing an amp never used to be so confusing... My amp is 4 channels... I'm using the front 2 channels for a set of comps and the 2 rear channels for a subwoofer so I would need a line driver that is at LEAST 4 channels right?
05-17-2012, 09:45 PM
#25
It's really not that bad. The metal is pretty thin and you can cut it with tin snips. Yep, you would either use the passive crossovers that come with the components or you could get an amp, processor, or headunit with capable crossover settings.
The tweeters from the CTX set aren't a perfect fit in the stock locations, but you can get them in there without too much modding. You can either attach the CTX tweeter to the underside of the stock grills or you can cut a hole in the stock grill and mount them on top. I tried attaching them to the bottom of the grill at first which maintained the stock look, but I didn't like how low they sat and the opening on the stock grill is tiny so I was worried about the sound being blocked. I currently have them mounted the second way. Here's a picture:
I'm sure there are lots of other ways to mount them depending on how creative you are. Another option would be to buy the Image Dynamics CXS component set. It is a little more expensive, but you'd be getting a slightly better set of comps and it comes with the XS28 tweeters which I believe are a perfect fit for the stock locations. Trunk Monkey can confirm that if you're interested. Also, the XS28 tweeters are the same ones that they use in their top of the line component set so it's something worth considering.
The tweeters from the CTX set aren't a perfect fit in the stock locations, but you can get them in there without too much modding. You can either attach the CTX tweeter to the underside of the stock grills or you can cut a hole in the stock grill and mount them on top. I tried attaching them to the bottom of the grill at first which maintained the stock look, but I didn't like how low they sat and the opening on the stock grill is tiny so I was worried about the sound being blocked. I currently have them mounted the second way. Here's a picture:
I'm sure there are lots of other ways to mount them depending on how creative you are. Another option would be to buy the Image Dynamics CXS component set. It is a little more expensive, but you'd be getting a slightly better set of comps and it comes with the XS28 tweeters which I believe are a perfect fit for the stock locations. Trunk Monkey can confirm that if you're interested. Also, the XS28 tweeters are the same ones that they use in their top of the line component set so it's something worth considering.
So my comps arrived today, MB quart PVL216 and in preperation I removed the factory grill to see what it looks like in there and I must say... I'm not quite sure how you did it this way.. Appears that the "grill" opening in only a couple centimeters and there is ALOT of plastic on the under side. Can you explain what you did here because I really like the way yours turned out... Thanks!!
05-17-2012, 11:19 PM
#26
Racer
So my comps arrived today, MB quart PVL216 and in preperation I removed the factory grill to see what it looks like in there and I must say... I'm not quite sure how you did it this way.. Appears that the "grill" opening in only a couple centimeters and there is ALOT of plastic on the under side. Can you explain what you did here because I really like the way yours turned out... Thanks!!
The following users liked this post:
Seatown1two (05-17-2012)
05-17-2012, 11:54 PM
#27
So your grills will still "snap" back into the factory location? Just curious if I can do something similar, are you able measure the diameter on the outside of the mounting ring of your tweeter?? I'm afraid if I did mine that way my grills wouldn't snap back in... Just measured mine and they are 2 1/8 inches
05-18-2012, 07:55 AM
#28
Racer
So your grills will still "snap" back into the factory location? Just curious if I can do something similar, are you able measure the diameter on the outside of the mounting ring of your tweeter?? I'm afraid if I did mine that way my grills wouldn't snap back in... Just measured mine and they are 2 1/8 inches
05-18-2012, 08:50 AM
#30
05-18-2012, 10:06 AM
#32
Team Owner
Same here. There are 4-5 people that I regularly mix up with one another and have to go back and figure out what they're running. The regular equipment changes don't make it any easier.
