JR2586

I finished wiring my new speakers wires for my TLS and don't know whether I should connect the LOC to the factory amp or from the new wires I ran to the aftermarket amp. Please Help!

Mug

More details. How can you run wires if you don't know how to hook up your LOC?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

And this is one reason why shops are so expensive. They have to spend half their time figuring out wtf the owner did and re-do it all lol

ATLS_666

Aftermarket amp

JR2586

It's so easy to have a smart ass comments but don't take time to actually re-read things. If its to have a smart ass comment why say anything?! But since you didn't have common sense(mug) let me explain it a little better so you can understand better.

I ran new wires from aftermarket amp to factory which I spliced from the original pin(preamp). Now the GOLDEN question is, would it be better if I installed the LOC from the factory amp to get the RCA wires or would it be better if I splice from the new wires?

Thanks atls!!!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

It's also so easy to use the search function, especially when it's something that's been covered 100000 times

Have fun searching

I hate cars

Your posts are incredibly vague. I have no idea what you mean by "running wires". What wires did you run from where and to where?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Exactly lol. Why the hell would you want to connect an LOC "to" the factory amp.

JR2586

I have done my search and seen the diagram which explains what are the wires colors for each speaker. In order to install my aftermarket amp I had to splice from the preamp pin as it was stated on another thread which trunk monkey helped me out with. I've done all the necessary connections and now I am ready to install the LOC, my only question was which I guess I stated incorrectly was that from where would I get a better quality if I connect the LOC from the preamp pin which I spliced with the new wires from or if it's better if I connect the LOC from the new wires that are going to the aftermarket amp?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure I asked some pretty stupid questions when I first started too. Not stupid I guess, but just worded weird bc i didn't know exactly what was going on. So...


You don't need an LOC when going pre-amp. The signal is already very low voltage. Just splice into the pre-amp and solder RCA'a onto speaker wire and you're done. If your amp can accept balanced...you're good to go. If not, you'll need some way to convert balanced to unbalanced.

What amp?

JR2586

I have a Memphis 4 channel amp i believe it can balance but for some reason the volume is not where it should be. I was looking around and some guy told me that I needed an audio booster. So idk what to do now

I hate cars

You're probably thinking of a line driver. It taps in like a LOC but instead of lowering the signal, it boosts the signal (which means you have to run the usual power, ground, and remote wires to it). The pre-amp signal is very low voltage, most amps will require the signal to be boosted or the volume won't be loud enough. Rockford Fosgate makes a nice balanced line driver.

If you add a line driver, install it where you tapped into the wires where the stock amp went and it will lower the chances of having noise in your system. The closer to the headunit, the less chance of noise in the system. I use one even with my processor.

JR2586

I noticed the noise when theres nothing playing it annoys the hell put of me!! As of now i still have the stock speakers which I will be replacing this weekend but wanted to test the system out. The front speakers are louder then the rear speakers which is why I posted the thread in which I thought where I installed the LOC mattered. Now that you mention the noise I really want to eliminate the noise its making. I even ran a crossover to maybe help the volume of the rear speakers but it is pointless!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yup, that noise is because our signal from the HU is balanced. In most cars and most HU's the signal is unbalanced & that makes it easy to just hook anything up and not get noise (if you do a clean install...good ground, etc).

An LOC does nothing but take a high-level signal (like that going to speakers) and bump the voltage down so your amps can accept it. Usually the voltage going TO the speakers are higher than the lowest voltage/gain that amps can accept so basically your speakers will be distorted from too much power when the gain is set all the way down. A line-driver is the exact opposite of an LOC...


You have a few options:
1. Buy an amp that accepts balanced
2. Buy a processor
3. Buy a line-driver that accepts a balanced signal {will turn it into unbalanced and that will go into your amp(s)} examples are the Audiocontrol Matrix, Rockford BLD

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Forgot to add, our "pre-amp" signal is quite low, so that's why most add a line-driver. Doing the exact opposite of the an LOC. Our pre-amp signal is about .5-.9v and on most amps, that would mean you'd need to crank the gain almost all the way if going mearly by voltage

To properly set your gains you'd need an O-scope and/or your ears

I hate cars

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Opel

Thats exactly right...im new to this, but been dealing with with it for the past few weeks, also with the help of a friend...


In addition to help the OP,
The stock HU's signal is very very weak. Everything these guys have been saying are true. Based on some recent testing with an oscope, it seems that the HU sends out an already distorted signal, pretty much at all volume levels, but the signal never actually clips. This was done through a 100hz tone (not a cd) through a pre-tested ipod which was kept out of distortion and clipping.

If you tap preamp and send the low signal to your amp from the HU (assuming it accepts it), you're not going to get much sound. You're gains cannot be set too high or else signal gets clipped very very quickly. Remember, your amp is only seeing at most 1v

The way we tested it was, HU vol knob at 35, was able to move gains slightly above min, any more and it would clip. I may have already ruined one of the rear coaxials, but hey, experimenting can't always be free.
We did this using an Alpine 5ch Mrx-V60

Im almost positive, a lot of people crank up their gains, and never hear clipping. They're not happy with the sound, and use gains as volume.

I dont mean to thread jack, but im kinda divided myself, between a processor or a new HU with 4v preouts and call it a day. Line drivers is one way to go, if you plan to get your stock amp out of play, but I'm just not too fond of the stock HU signal to begin with.

Good processors come at a price, $600-$1000 average.
Some of them get thrown off after they're tuned, once you move your stock HU volume. (IHC , quote me on this, as I believe you have the MS-8. Does this happen?..and btw, Hello lol0

A new decent alpine or pioneer HU, with 4v preouts, $150-$250, which is what I'm leaning towards, since I don't really care much about the bluetooth (last thing I want is a phone call interrupting the flow of a good song lol), or the voice prompt from the Navi.

Will see and do, but for now, I think I'm gonna get a new HU, throw it in somewhere and shut the door, link it up to an ipod and use it to drive my amp.

Anyone, please correct me on anything, bcs I'm learning about this stuff by the day

I hate cars

I've only got like 5 seconds, got to leave but I think I'm getting rid of the MS8 and I'll give it to you for the price of an average HU if you're interested. I'll be back in an hour or two.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The stock signal seems pretty good for me. I think there are a few people that have competed using the factory nav. I dunno though..maybe they'll chime in

Opel, IHC's MS-8 would be a nice pickup and quite a bit less work that integrating a HU. If you do in fact have to go with a HU, I'd be all over the Pioneer 80PRS for that price range.

Opel

Clean your inbox, then PM me lol.....i wrote a message, only to not go through

I understand...the stock signal might not be as bad as I made it seem, but I'm trying to avoid line drivers...I like to chain things with as little amount of links as possible.

The DEH-80PRS offers some really good things.... can have it for a little over $300.... things is, something like that, i don't know if i wanna tuck away...its a single din so fitting it where the stock HU won't be too easy for a nice finish (nice=acceptable) , but like I said, i wanted something that I can do quickly...my car's a DD, and anything i tackle has to be wrapped up within the day and ready to drive the next morning....otherwise id tear the dash apart, until i figure something out.

I had this crazy idea of fitting a single din right below the stock HU lol...a nice cut out and slide it right in there...then I'd have 2 HUs

will see

jda123

The clipping on the o'scope was from your amp. The JL, Audison and Zapco that i tested worked fine, but they can easily take a .2v signal. Try not to go above 20 or 25 on the head unit. I never go above 20.

Get a RF BLD and call it a day. This shit get overanalyzed every day on here. Your memphis amp cannot take the balanced differential signal, so the HU voltage is of no consequence. The BLD will convert it and boost it... so win:win.

Your other choice is to get an amp that can take a low signal and a balanced differential signal. Zapco Ref & DC, JL Audio and Audison LRx (the black ones) all work in my car - tried and tested. Check out the prices on those and a BLD is a good solution if you have an amp. There are others that will work too...

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I believe the ID q amps also accept balanced. And so does the new PPI Black Ice line, but that's not even in the same league as those discussed here.

I agree with you that the less things in the chain can USUALLY be better, but you're essentially doing the same thing in the HU as you'd be doing in a processor. BLD and AC Matrix are cheap and will get the job done.

I usually try not to go over 30, but maybe I'll set my gains at 25 from now on

Opel

I dont know If Jda123 directed the post towards me, but the amp I tried also accepts balanced and as low as .2v ... was done without any line drivers, just to try it.

TrunkMonkey......reason of the HU is because my stock HU gotta be sent out for repair...so you get the idea

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Oh dang. What's wrong with the factory one??

pohljm

Threadjack! Ok everyone is here that I want to hear from and its kinda on topic!
Just ordered a JL 700/5 amp, so that decision is done!
Now the question is..........do I really need a line driver? IHC you have run your 900/5 without one. does the JL really work that well with the balanced low signal that I do not need one? I do not need max SPL. I dont crank it that loud anyway.

If so..........inexpensive options? I need L/R and sub correct? not LF/RF + LR/RR + sub.

Opel

Well, cd player doesn't work....will try to play, but eventually spit them out...aside from that,even if i dont use cds at all, it will shut off sometimes as I move from aux/xm to Fm and accidentally hit the CD for a sec...will shut down, so its kinda annoying.

Anyway, called alpine today....$208, turnaround time about 10 days or so....i wanna punch a hole in it...had the Navi dvd sent to them for repair too a while back......maybe a hint that I shouldn't get an Alpine HU lol

I hate cars

With such a low voltage running practically the length of the car it has many areas to pick up interference. When it gets to the amp it needs to be amplified a lot to get decent output which is going to amplify the noise picked up along the way.

Adding a line driver near the HU will amplify the signal early on and the amp gains will not have to be set as high so any noise picked up along the way to the amp will not be amplified as much. I'm not sure if the HD requires a line driver, from the literature it doesn't look like it does. I would recommend one anyway just to ensure a good clean signal. You can always try it without first and add one later.

I hate cars

I didn't realize you could get the CD player repaired that cheap. FWIW, you can get a new one for just a little over $300 shipped in the factory packaging. When mine finally took a dump it sent out a thump to my subs that I'm surprised didn't blow them.

Opel

I had no idea mine was even broken, since I had not played CDs in a long time...until one day i decided to hit the CD button

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I would be PIIIISED

I hate cars

That was when I learned the IB15s have a "brake" luckily. It was a thump that I felt throughout my body and plugged one of my ears up (I already had a sinus infection) instantly.

JR2586

Once again you guys have saved me. I was literally about to go to a shop and have them do everything all over and of course change the speakers. The line driver sounds like a good idea or maybe I would just get aftermarket HU. Honestly I just want clear sound and like you guys said, not trying to bring up the gain too high. Now I have a decision to make which I will be thinking about. It just hurts that after I did all that work I end up going to a shop and get everything done all over again. Most likely I will end up changing the memphis amp I have for a JL since I've read so many threads that they are good.

pohljm

Looks like the RF BLD is only for 2 channels? what do you do wit the sun channel?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'd try to find an Audiocontrol Matrix

Actually, I think Niebur3 said that Arc makes a line-driver. Might PM him and see what he can get

jda123

Run that same channel to the sub.

Downside, no HU control of the sub anymore. Upside, better signal that goes below 30 hz (roundabout) and does not drop off at 6-12 db/oct like the stock sub signal does. Choices...

If the amp will take a remote sub button, then best of both worlds.

I ran the stock pre-amp signals straight into my JL amps. Great sound, no noise. No line driver or LOC.

JR2586

i did the same JDA but the noise is killing me. I'm going to be doing the same thing you did. Im going to just lose the sub control on the HU and just run a remote button from the aftermarket amp. Im going to buy the Audiocontrol matrix which s 6 channel and jsee how it sounds.

pohljm

So! 1 person has had good luck with the pre amp signal and one is experiencing Noise? Are both of these with JL amps? So the line driver would only be installed on L &R channels and the sub fed both. I will use a remote gain control so head unit control is not necessary. JR. Why u going to 6 channel line driver? Only 2 needed? Are you preserving the 5.1 capability?

jda123

I only have used amps that accept balanced diff signals. I have some that I have used that don't accept it and they sound terrible. My good experiences have been with Audison, Zapco Ref & DC and JL amps.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

JR...if you're using an amp that accepts balanced/same as JDA and getting noise, something in your install is wrong. Bad ground most likely