underdog_RENAMED2

I just got my TL about a week ago, and every time I listen to the XM sound system, it sounds scratchy and digitized, like a low quality mp3. The more I listen to it, the more it drives me nuts!

Does anyone else notice it, or is there something wrong with my system? Does XM use a ton of compression? That's what it sounds like to me.

Thanks

Shinj1EVA

Yeah, I found XM pretty disappointing as well. I ended up paying for it when they were offering the 60/yr deal, only reason I even considered it.

TXTL

the sound quality does differ some station to station. it seems that the newer songs, produced in the 2000's have better sound qulaity than the 70's, 80's and 90's. oooh well, a least no commercials!!!

yano_jl

Agreed. I was (am) disapointed with the music quality on XM. I still renewed the subscription as I enjoy some of the talk stations. However, I cannot listen to XM music without getting pissed off.

underdog_RENAMED2

Thanks everyone for reconfirming my suspicions. I hate how marketing people use the term "all digital quality" as if that automatically means it's the best sound quality. It all depends on the bitrate, sampling frequency, and compression levels. You can see the same effect on satellite TV. Usually you will see the best picture quality on premium channels and PPV, and the regular channels will have higher compression, and more noticable video artifacts. I was hoping that an all music satellite system would factor everything in, and get at least good mp3 quality music (if not CD quality), but I guess the tradeoff is not having an 18" dish on top of my TL!

underdog_RENAMED2

By the way, did you guys sign up for the 5 year deal at $500?

NewMexiCat

The low-quality sound of XM is really revealed when you switch over to a DVD-A or CD. I thought XM sounded pretty good in my low-fi '96 RL, but I really hear the shortcomings now compared to the high-rez audio capabilites of the TL. XM is still better than FM as far as diversity of muscal choices, but the sound quality is quite depressing.

DeMAN

I listen more to music on a radio vs. a CD.
They don't come close to comparing when you matching them to each other; However and the reason I love XM radio is I'm able to leave TX and drive to NJ and listen to the same group of station w/o a lot of interruption. FM sucks if you travel a lot because the station fade after about 40 miles or so.

If you are looking for quality, then by all means cd's or dvd's are the way to go and a option we all have
If you are looking for radio while traveling XM or sirrus is by far the way to go.

rescueswimmer

Have you guys ever just been so pissed off at XM. I have had it for about 3 weeks now and I listen to 20,21, then some of the rock stations, ect. I have on many numerous occasions switched channels only to here the same F@#$ing song. Has this happened to you. Man is that fn annoying

VelfarreClubber

I had xm radio in my Max for a yr, it had 1. pioneer double din deck 2. pioneer xm tuner connected on ip-bus cables 3. mb quart components 4. jl 6 1/2's 5. 2 JL w6's 12" 6. all connected to rockford fosgate amps.

When you listened to xm w/ that setup it was awesome ! ! people commented on how nice it sounded and even an audiophile like my bro said its was nice. any source of music sounded nice in that car including ipod which was hooked up in aux.

Im not gonna flame on the TL since i love it so much, but the xm sounds "compressed" it was somewhat like that in my Max but not as noticeable in the TL. I of course still enjoy xm and can not go back to fm radio. Xm in our car needs a treble level of 9 =P but things should sound much better when i install a JL 8" w7 obtw bass hits so much cleaner w/ xm,
you guys should notice the difference.

Now what i wonder is maybe its the hardware used in our car, anyone know who makes the devices for the xm? i know our head unit is a panasonic

VelfarreClubber

Very true for ch. 20 everytime i hear jojo - getout , reaaaaally sick of that Sh*% from what your saying you probably listen to no more than 4 different stations out of a 150. try some other stations

Stewie

Do a search and you'll see that this has come up before.
When XM first came out a few years ago they claimed to be "cd-quality".
Then they backed off that and were saying "near-cd quality".
Now they don't claim anything regarding sound quality.
Not sure if the degraded the bandwidth to fit more stations of if it was never that great to begin with.

Achance

I listen to the rap stations alot and they play mobb deep about 5 or 6 times every hour

And isnt ch 20 the top 20? They are going to be repeating the same songs on that channel thats the point.




and playboy channel is very lame all they do is talk about the same crap over and over and over.

mugwump

As someone whe has worked for many years in the pro audio industry, I can add a couple of comments. As far as I have seen, XM does not like to disclose details of their audio compression methods, but from what I have read the data rate for music channels is said to be in the range of 60 kbs, or roughly half of the most common MP3 rate of 128kbs. In fairness to them, their compression scheme is probably more efficient than MP3, but at this rate audio quality is still going to be limited. Voice channels (CNN, etc.) are run at a lower rate but I don't recall what I read it was. Sirius is said to be roughly comparable, or possibly even lower. I had a first generation add-on XM radio that I used with my previous car (A6 2.7T), and the XM in the TL sounds MUCH better, mostly due to the more prominent bass response of the system. In general, low bit rate artifacts are more audible when the tonal balance of the playback system favors mids and highs. I mostly listen to the news channels and don't find the fidelity to be an issue. My son likes to listen to the music channels, and on balance they sound better than FM, IMO. The low bit rate fidelity issues are preferable to the more obvious FM problems in my area which is about 30-35 hilly miles away from the transmission towers for most of the FM stations we receive.

rescueswimmer

I agree with you guys about the 20 on 20 repeating that is to be expected and I do listen to more than 4 channells. It just seems to me that I here the same song over and over and over again no matter what channell I end up listening 2. Its almost as bad as FM just with out the talk.

Achance

try using paragraphs or cliff notes. that hurts my eyes

underdog_RENAMED2

Mugwump,

Thanks for the explanation. I had suspected a low bite rate on the stream, and I guess that's what is happening. I guess more people listen to XM on sound systems not quite as nice as the TL, and it isn't as audible - except VelfarreClubber's Maxima which looked like it could have been a nice system.

underdog_RENAMED2

Maybe there is hope!

http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=151492

underdog_RENAMED2

More specs....

http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/viewtopic...bitrate#148980

scottykusmc

I've got no problem with the XM, I just wish the stock audio system was better. It's nice to have the ability to make my ears bleed listenin to someone like Led Zepplin....I RARELY listen to FM

acuraddict

I've got no problem with XM either. I love it for what it is, and totally appreciate the variety. Air America ch 167 is my new favorite, but I'll always listen to the music stations and ch150.

baby_igor

If XM could generate higher bit-rate audio streams, it would still have to be weighed against the power of the satellite, which is finite. If they gave a higher bit rate to classical for example, it would have to be offset by a reduction some where else. Thats why the traffic channels sound like helium, they have cut the bit-rate down to the bare bones and saved some satellite power for other channels.

templeowls

I don't think the problem is with XM. It's problem with our TL sound system. I have XM on my other car with Alpine receiver, Alpine tuner, stock speakers and Infinity Sublink. It sounds great! I feel it's better than CD quality.

underdog_RENAMED2

Do you think it has to do with your stock speakers?

Or is it our XM module?

Or is it really the XM compression? Does anyone have XM hooked up to some kick ass speakers and notice the compression?

svtmike

I think it's the compression myself. The system sounds incredible to me when playing a high resolution DVD-A, and lower quality (less dynamic?) signals are much more obvious because of the stark difference.

Mike

Republican TL

I agree with you here, Mike. My father has Sirius in his '03 TL-S, and the difference in audio performance is noticeable vs. XM. Sirius has XM beat. I believe there are Hi-Fi articles on this as well, where they chose Sirius over XM, based on sound. I hope Sirius comes out with the converter so that I can get Sirius through the OEM receiver. They say they are working on it.

underdog_RENAMED2

Well considering some say it is great, some say it is horrible, it boils down to two theories.

OK, it's quite obvious the DVD-A and CD sound a lot better in the TL than XM. But XM can't be that bad, can it? The lady who cuts my hair has XM in their shop, and it doesn't sound that bad.

Theory 1: XM just uses too much compression. If you watch regular definition television programming on a regular TV (or a nice "regular TV" like my standard def Wega), it is enjoyable. It looks fine (or even pretty good on my TV). But when you pipe those same signals through a high def TV, it looks grainy and awful. High def looks great on it, but standard def doesn't. XM is standard def played on our high def TL systems.

Theory 2: XM isn't that bad. Some board members here used some pretty respectable speaker systems in their cars with an XM radio and were quite happy with it. Would someone who can't tell good sound quality buy MB Quart speakers? I don't think so. Maybe it's just our XM module that sucks. Maybe it's got a really bad DAC (Digital-Analog Converter). Maybe the antenna can't get a good signal, so there's a lot of digital error correction going on causing the poor sound quality (Do you think it sounds grainy and scratchy all the time, so just half the time?). Perhaps XM is as close to CD quality as 128Kbps MP3s, which is not great, but not bad. It's very tolerable.

What are your thoughts, board members?

Anyone have a way to play their portable XM radio through the TL and do an A-B? If our XM modules are the culprit, maybe we can join together to get Acura to recall them....

Thanks for listening.

underdog_RENAMED2

Any comments on my last post?

OtownTL

I just got my new 05 TL and I absolutely love it, this is my first post and that is because my only gripe so far with the car is the sound quality of the XM satelite radio. To be quite honest, I agree with the "low quality MP3" impression. Being an audiophile and having had a great sound system in my last car, I am quite dissapointed in XM. I did an experiment and went to best buy and played with thier XM demo units. I did not notice the artifacts nearly as much and it sounded somewhat clearer IMO, keeping in mind that the speakers they were using were crap.

This issue has me thourogly confused as I was always under the impression that satellite radio was the great new thing, to be honest, the strong FM stations in my area sound better, and a 128Kbps MP3 blows away the XM in my new TL. I have actually been contemplating taking it to Acura and complaining. I wish I had heard XM in other cars so I could have a valid gripe to complain about, but I have not. Does anyone know if other car owners which companies use XM have the same complaints? It would be interesting to see if G35 owners who have the XM setup think the same way. This would let us better diagnose if it is a component of the Acura system that is introducing this sound.

I cannot stand listening to the music stations, but I love the talk stations... however since I live in the orlando area and my favorite XM station is 152... that stations shows are syndicated from 104.1 here in orlando, so I do not know if it is worth my time to continue the subscription.

Thanks for reading guys and I love my new TL!

Ken7

In actuality, I'd be willing to bet the higher quality audio system in the Acura TL is one of the reasons you're noticing the deficiencies of XM. Just as you saw less problems in BB, with lousy speakers that couldn't reveal these problems, you'll see the imperfections with better speakers. The same is true in video, a better video display will always reveal more of the problems with a poor broadcast. BUT, the payoff is with high quality sources, when your system will sound the best. You even noticed how some of your FM stations sounded better, which proves that the TL IS capable of producing higher quality audio.

NewMexiCat

In addition to the inferior sound quality, the low output of the XM signal really pisses me off! I can blast away a newer-vintage CD at a volume level of 15 to 20, DVD-A needs a little higher volume at 20 to 25 (and sounds damn good at that level), but even at the 25 mark, the XM music channels are just "there", no punch, no dynamics, no "blow the doors off" intensity.

I know compression will always limit the fidelity of XM, but is there a way to boost output levels on XM without having to re-amp the whole audio system?

underdog_RENAMED2

Wow... three months and my post is alive again!

What can we do to test this further? What does our XM module look like? Can I plug headphones into it (with some adapters)?

Otown, did you see anything at BB that you could plug in headphones into an XM unit? The XM boombox might have something. If you plug some quality headphones into that, I'd be curious to see how it sounds.

Like I said, maybe it's the XM module we have, or maybe it gets some digital -> analog -> digital -> analog conversion before it hits our speakers in the TL....

I've love to solve this!!

NFLblitze1

all in all...it is MUCH better then AM/FM RADIO....so im not arguing..

lflorack

I have found that the quality of XM is very dependant on what station I'm listening to. Among other musical choices, I like contemporary jazz. So, I listen to Watercolors - XM 71 a lot. I find (fortunately for me) that this station soulnds a lot better than many of the others. Although the others aren't terrible, 71 is noticably better. So, it may be channel-based. Or, is everyone saying that all of the channels are lacking?

Comments?

underdog_RENAMED2

OK, I listened to 71 today, and it didn't sound too bad. The most tell-tale and disturbing evidence is songs that have a lot of hi-hat and cymbals. Those do not compress very well at all.

svtmike

I haven't listened to XM since October - bad sound that I cannot get used to, not much in the way of music I like. It'll have to go even lower than $5 per month for me to keep it active next year.

Mike

OtownTL

Well I was able to do a test with Sirius satellite radio in my friends car today, and the result was quite disturbing. He has a portable Sirius radio, with an FM transmitter, and.... It sounds much better than the XM in the TL. I honestly think the problem is in the XM system in the TL. I know alot of you say that it is the quality of the TL that makes the sound artifacts glaring, but I have been involved in high end car audio for many years, and yes the stock system is good... for a stock sound system, it is not however amazing by any stretch. I really wish my friend had XM but from what I am told Sirius is not supposed to be better sound quality. An now that I think about it, the demos at Spring Break nationals where XM is a major sponsor, also have much higher sound quality than the XM in the TL. Does anyone have access to hear an XM system in a different car or with an aftermarket head unit? I would really like to know if it is our XM module.


Also quick note, most Satellite antennas I have seen for XM and Sirius are exposed, whereas ours are covered by a small cover painted the color of our cars.... could this be adding to our problems?

baby_igor

Good post, thanks for the info.

Regarding the cover on the XM antenna, its not the issue. The signal attenuattion is a few tenths of a dB and will not affect the signal to noise ratio of the receiver in any major way.

Mindworm

I dig XM for what it is....a better alternative to FM with lower sound quality. Just means I have to find the artists I like and get their stuff from the store. Not a bad thing, usually. Lucy, Ethel, and Fred rule for helping me find stuff not playing in Chicago yet. Really enjoy the selection, and when I want great sound I hit DVD-A or CD.

God does Radiohead sound good in a TL. Especially Kid A.

Brewmaster

Would a better test be to get the portable Sirius (w/ FM transmitter) and try it in the TL?? Granted you'd lose some by going through FM, but at least it would be a closer comparison (same speakers, environment, and major components).