GeoffS

Has anyone tried to burn a backup of the NAVI disk? I picked up a dual layer burner the other day and was thinking about burning a backup of the disk in case anything ever happens to it. It's hard to justify paying $10-15 for a blank DL disk to backup a movie that costs the same but backing up a nearly $200 disk actually makes sense. If anyone has done this did you have to do anything special?

Tweaker

Well its defiantly Dual layer (6.3 gigs) I was able to make an error free image (using Alcohol 120 ) of it but I can’t burn it because I have no DL burner. As for copying movies you need to use DVDShrink. It will let you pull all the crap off the DVDs (and recompress if necessary) so they fit on SL disks.

mastertl

DVDxCopy

Casper42

BAHhhhhh why doesnt he just buya Mac then too. And trade in his 6MT for a 5AT.

IMO, DVDXcopy = Computer Illiterate

damats

I think it's pretty we have to pay 180 bucks for an update to our navs. If someone who has an updated disk were to rip it and post the image using bit torrent we could all download it without totally crushing anyones internet connection. Eliminates someone having to make allt he copies and mail them out. Think we could get enough people together to do something like this?

zax123

I'd totally participate in a bittorrent of the most recent NaviDisc version... I think it's 3.40 right now, but could be wrong.

BIGFISH

Why dont you just get rid of the BIN's that are not for our car.. They use the same NAVI disk for all Hondas and Acuras with DVD navi.. That should get you below 4.3Gb

Lore

Unfortunately, none of those BINs are nearly enough to shrink the disc down to 4.3Gb. There are 3 big files on the disc: streets, points of interest, and another one that's over a gig. Uunless you remove the two smaller databases, which are non-car specific, you have no shot at squeezing it on a SL disc.

Here are the big files:

GeoffS

Anyone know if there's a crazy boot sector or anything like that? Would be much easier if it was just straight cdfs with no hidden tracks or fun stuff like that.

someone

hah I remember when I used to like DVDXcopy.. then moved to DVD Shrink. Oh the light....

zax123

Can someone please tell me how to check the version number of my navi? Like the 3.30x version I mean...

robrow65

Seach for the thread about NAVI secret buttons.

zax123

Yeah, I did the MAP/MENU/CANCEL trick but didn't get any 3.30x version anywhere... that's why I'm thinking maybe it's because I have a Canadian version of the car? I thought the Navi disc was the same though. STRANGE!

Lore

You have to pull the disc out and see what it says on it, otherwise I believe only the firmware version will show.

zax123

Ah ha! Thanks Lore. That's exactly what I was wondering. I'll check it out tonight then.

Lore

No problem. Please let us know how it looks. I bought a few discs of dual layer DVD+R9 media and will be backing up my Navigation disc and seeing if I can use the backup instead of the original. Maybe I can even figure out a way to change the images on the disc so it boots up with a picture of the beach or something.

There's no real reason for me to keep it that way (since no one puts the disc in and out of the drive) but it's a good way to see if the drive can read DVD+R9 media.

rmastbro

I am very interested if the Navi will read a DVD+R9 media.... Keep us posted

Nodoze2004

Now that would be SWEET!! While you are at it see if you can change/eliminate the Ok prompt!!

I would pay someone 500.00 if they would make the navi auto boot with no 'ok'!

Lore

Unfortunately, I wasted 5 DVD+R9 Ritek D01 discs this weekend trying to get the car (and my computer, at that) to read the Navi disc. No such luck.

If anyone's willing to donate some cash to the "Lore's Dual Layer Disc Fund" I'll buy some Verbatim's and try my luck again. I did a lot of research on my burner and media this weekend and found that the Verbatims are a little better for "testing" than Ritek discs. I even tried two different dual layer burners and had no better luck. I was pretty disappointed - those discs are close to $10 a pop after tax and shipping.

The problem might also lie with the drive in the car not reading DVD+R9 discs, even with the booktype set to "DVD-ROM" which should fool the drive into thinking it was pressed.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Brokedoc

Did any of your discs play in your DVD-ROM? Maybe there's something about the discs that standard DVD players can't read.

Lore

Yes - but only after I updated the firmware of the drive, which led me to believe that the brand of media as well as the format of the media can have a big impact on readability. I want to try the Verbatim discs next... but at $10 a pop I can wait.

underdog_RENAMED2

I don't know if anyone saw my post here. Might be too late for the coupon code, but the rebate looks to be still good.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...1921&p=1027615

wakattack

What is known about the Navi DVD drive? Could it be swapped out with a more burn ed disk friendly unit perhaps?

I am going to start working on the problem too. I'm going to pick a new Dual layer burning drive and some media to mess with this weekend.

wakattack

I am guessing that perhaps the DVD drive is incompatible with the + Format and thus the + DL format as well.

ElmerHiggins

Nero will read the Navi disc to make a backup if you change the read mode to ISO. Hope this helps...

Lore

Hi,

That would be my guess too. Even if you set the booktype to DVD-ROM the drive still won't read the disc. If you figure it out let me know!

BoneZTL

I've been researching this at a much different level than some of you, instead of looking into just making a duplicate of the NAV disc, I've investigated something else.

Basically you have a series of "BIN" files, which are actually images that are loaded by your NAV ECU.

BN2HHMLD.BIN is the bin loader, it detects version information, DVD Media type, Disc format, offset locations for flash loading/erasing/programming, and a slew of other things, essentially this is the bin that launches the kernel bin your NAV ECU requires.

Also on the DVD is a list of other bins, these are the actual kernel bins used for each NAV system that the DVD supports. They hold feature information, but no GPS data, all of that data is stored in other files. These bins are essentially the operating system for your NAV ECU. Which happens to be a Windows CE kernel compiled for Hitachi hardware for anyone who cares.

Now, what makes matters a bit more difficult is that each of these kernel bins are heavily encrypted. Each has 11 crypto signatures. MD5, SHA-1, CRC32, MS Crypto Hash and Ciphers (Windows CE crypto API), Base64, and DES.

So although reverse engineering is possible, it would be an insanely long and tedious project, which I've come to the conclusion isn't worth my time rather than spending the $180 if I decide someday I need a newer version of the NAV disc.

You can burn copies of your DVD's all day long, and maybe you'll get lucky, but the reality is unless you get a true 1 to 1 copy (Some CD software was able to do this a few years ago, close enough to fool most apps, but I havn't seen a DVD one yet), and get lucky on your drive reading the disc, chances are you arn't going anywhere without hacking the loader bin to accomodate your media, if the drives even support burnable media in their firmware (which they may not).

Just my 2 cents... hopefully some software out there gets us close enough to copy our discs.

-BZ

wakattack

Bone,

A lot of this seems to be in the clear, so I think all hope is not lost.


Can you update or add to what I have found here on the file types:

800000000.BMP 110 BitMap 2/03
A0000_00.MNG 3 MNG File Refers to U2002_02.SIG & OAR_5001.STR 11/04

BN2HHMLD.BIN 78 BIN Bin Loader, hOW TO deal with various inputs 2/04

ADD.BIN 287,216 BIN 5/02
BN2HH12C.BIN 13,342 BIN 12C 7/04
BN2HH110.BIN 13,305 BIN 1.1 7/04
BN2HH120.BIN 13,376 BIN 1.2 7/04
BN3HN12B.BIN 13,296 BIN 1.2B 7/04
BN2HN18B.BIN 13,336 BIN 1.8B 7/04
BN2HN380.BIN 13,384 BIN 3.80? 9/04
BNHH401A.BIN 13,341 BIN 4.01A 8/04
BNHN404A.BIN 13,337 BIN 4.04 7/04

FR_ETB2F.VC_ 22,115 VC French Voice Command? 6/16/03
FRNCH2F.VC_ 2,758 VC Voice Command Compresseed?

OAR_5001.STR 1,486,962 STR Streets
OAR_5002.POI 1,437,608 POI Points of Interest
OAR_5003.MLT 476 MLT Directions List (states, French, English, Street Types)
PRG_INFO.MNG 1 MNG 03 Model Year, List of 8 BIN Files

U0001_02.BAS 3,077,455 BAS 11/11/04
U0130_02.ROA 131,737 ROA List of Roads 7/04
U2001_02.CIT 1,242 CIT List of Cities 7/04
U2002_02.SIG 5,106 SIG List of Cities, Services, Locations 7/04

US_ENG2F.VC_ 2,839 VC English Female Voice Commands ALPINE Copyright 1998 AORA
US_ENG2M.VC_ 2,374 VC English Male Voice Command

US_ETB2F.VC_ 30,829 VC Digital Female Voice
US_ETB2M.VC_ 29,639 VC Digital Male Voice

ZZZ10.BIN 10k BIN Uknown 9/98
ZZZ100.BIN 100k BIN Uknown 9/98

wakattack

Ughh, Just went thru 5 Verbatim DL disks, with booktype set to DVD-ROM.

No Dice. I think the next step is to see if the drive can be swapped out. I noticed the system is real picky about the door being opened.

Another crazy thought would be to open up the drive unit, and do a Disk Swap, after it loads on the intitial Disk. To see if it is doing some sort of funky boot sector stuff. But then can read burned disks fine.

I'm sort of doubtful that the unit can be swapped out with the door integration, front loading mechanism, etc, but perhaps worth a shot.

ElmerHiggins

We really need a software engineer or a programmer to look into this. IT CANT BE THAT HARD, I just dont see how we are getting stymied by this. I will be asking around for someone that might be able to assist us in backing up our navi's and let you guys know. So far, I'm almost certain that the encryption is what is stopping us. What do you guys think?

bosoxfan

hey,

anyone have the iso or bin image file avail for the navi dvd version 3.40c?

thanks!

boe_d

I'd love to find a copy of the 2.20 on bittorrent!

boe_d

Hopefully someone from this forum can help -

http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tm.asp?m=113680

DAVERUBINO

I have a burned copy of 3.40 in my car that someone on this forum sold me. It works fine, so it is possible. P.S. I have a 2000 TL-P

boe_d

Frankly I think $185 is unreasonable. If it were $50 for the real deal, I'd order every other year.

You can buy MS or other GPS software programs for the PC with the same data for far less.

tcp100

It could be that these discs are pressed and have a CPRM key. Consumer drives can read, but not write a CPRM key from a copy when not permitted. (You know, the lovely copy-once, copy-never restrictions that the xxAA associations have burdened us with!)

To burn a disc with an exact-duplicated CPRM key, you'd need a DVD-R Authoring drive (the drives we have are known as DVD-R for General; DVD-R Authoring requires a special drive AND disk -- and I'm pretty sure DL isn't available on DVD-R/A right now.)

However, it could just be a +/- compatibility issue.. Since - media is much more compatible with most readers, this may work when DVD-R DL media is much more widely available.. As it is right now, just about anything you can get your hands on is +R DL, so only time may tell on this.

(Yes, I'm a software engineer -- but it's not that simple! For the nav stuff itself, we'd need a WinCE/SH4 engineer -- for the disc duplication stuff, we'd need more of a hardware engineer with a background in removeable storage. I'm a Java guy; sorry!)

Anyways.. disk layout and ciphers on individual files would have little to do with it. The issue would only be if a key (such as CPRM or CSS) is on the disc that a consumer DVDR drive could not duplicate. Files is files, no matter what you copy them with. Nothing is looking for sector order or anything funny like that in an ISO/UDF filesystem. If there's a hidden partition of another format, however, that's another story.

tcp100

Yeah, you can, but that's not the norm, and they're not as updated. Garmin charges about the same ($150) for their yearly MapSource updates. I have no doubt that Navteq may be basing their pricing structure off Garmin, or vice versa. Such is competition. The POI databases in our software and in Garmins is much, much more thorough, actually, than anything you'll find in MS Streets.

boe_d

I would love to know what media works - I have just got a plextor 740A but don't have any DL media - I'll order some as soon as someone tells me what works!

Beoshingus

Guys, here's a simple way to find out if it's a media issue:

Use Bysin's program to change the background image. Instead of burning to a CD to load into flash memory, burn it to a 4.3GB DVD+R and see if it works. If so, voila, then the drive can read +R. If someone feels like wasting a +DL disk, try the same thing. You'll at least know by trying this whether it's the media or something else (perhaps encryption) that is causing the problem.

stooge

Guys,

I have a 2.05 acura navi disk that came with my car. I tried to make a duplicate of that since it was not biggger than 4.7 dvd-r disk. That did not work either. I used dvd clone/dvd decrypter and nero.

I also had work done to my car and they gave me a loaner which was the 2005 TL with NAvi in it. I took the navi disk out of it and made a .iso of it. I beleive it was version 4.x. I then made a copy of it with a DL +R and it could not read it with same error message (unable to read disc, not formatted right).

The question i have are: I think it works like the ps2 were you would need some kind of modchip in the dvd drive to play burned disc. I noticed that on each of the original disc there is bar code on the inner layer that might be readby the player as soon as it gets placed into the dvd drive. I am not sure though.

Do not waste your money on DL blank discs. Try and make a copy of the older version that is not larger than 4.7 and you can waste as many of those dvd -r discs as you want since they are cheaper.


If you could get older navi disc to burn and work then you will deff be able to copy the larger 6gig dics with no problem.