rich20730

Are the Kappas 2ohm? If so, I'd just leave them and run them off the stock amp. Installing another amp, cutting metal, and buying/making MDF spacers doesn't seem worth it to go from one coaxial to a slightly better coaxial. That's a lot of work just for rearfill. Since you just recently bought the CTX coaxials you shouldn't have any trouble getting a refund.

Mug

That's how I felt too. I'm not a sound guy so my system can suck and I'll never know it! Plus, it seems hard to cut metal back there. Risk scratching tint. I tried the low pass filter on just the rear and I didn't like how it sounded.

I have not done any deadening yet, but the front's with the door panels on (still have kappa woofers) produced much more mid than the rear deck. Not sure if sealing it up with dynamat will create more mid from the rear.

Mug

I almost forgot the best part of ditching the kappa tweets and crossovers: No more engine whine!! I had a nice alternator or RPM related whine that I think is 100% gone. Two birds with one stone! And, they look so much better. They blend in and look stock. Way better than those mini silver turbine engines.

rich20730

My rear deck is sealed and I don't notice much midbass, but I have them faded so low I don't really notice the rear speakers at all. You should definitely notice an increase when you deaden the front doors, especially with the CTX's compared to the Kappas.

Yea, those are some weird ass looking tweeters.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah...why wouldn't you? You wanted to run rears right? Putting an amp on them would helpful, but if you're just running the stock amp then they'll still be fine. With CTX's up front, why would you want to run Infinity in the rear if you have a sonic match for your fronts. Sure the sensitivity of the Infinity's are 95db and the CTX's are 90db, but I doubt you'll even notice when you factor in distance and most importantly how our ears perceive SPL levels. There's also the fact that maybe those sensitivity measurements are exact.

Stock signal is 2ohm to the rears correct? Sure, 4ohm would get less power...but the factory amp also runs cooler and more efficiently. The last thing I would do is try to get everything out of the stock amp lol. THE LAST THING. The Infinity's are going to have a better efficiency and get "slightly" more power (that you may not even reach), but are also going sound a lot different.

Hard to keep up with the 20 people configuring their setups on here, but did you buy 2 sets of CTX's or just 1 for the front? If just one, I'd rather just run the stock's in the rear over the Infinity.


Front is also running as leaky sealed whereas the rear is basically IB. Could be a factor, but I dunno

rich20730

If I understand these things correctly he would be losing around 8db of output by running the CTX's with the stock amp (5db due to sensitivity + ~ 3db going from 2ohms to 4ohms). If so, that would be pretty significant, wouldn't it?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Right. 8db's MAX

Those speakers are also 15' away and running the midrange, which is our ears most sensitive range. Personally, I would say the difference between having two sonic differences is much worse than a possible 5-6db difference on rear fill. I mean you're correct in that the Infinity's will in fact be louder, but I don't see that as a good thing when they are rear fill and not the same as the front's. Kinda just depends on what the OP wants lol

Mug

I have the CTX6.5 components up front and the CTX6.5 coaxial for the rear. My desire to just keep the kappas in the rear is two-fold. I like some highs from the rear (stock would just be the woofer), and I don't want to cut up the rear deck (lazy?). Cutting the doors seems easy, but cutting metal sandwiched between the rear glass sounds like hell. Plus, I already have ass loads of metal splinters from drilling the holes required to seat the kappas.

I guess I could bridge the front channel and hook the rear back up to the stock amp. Then see what all three options sound like.

OH, and don't worry about remembering everything, I'm just glad I'm getting help. You guys are awesome!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The rears will play the same frequency band no matter what's back there. So you'll get highs no matter what's getting power. Not sure what the exact freq. range of that rear signal is....anyone?

A dremel will make VERY quick work of enlarging that thin sheet metal. There's plenty of room there too. Just take some newspaper or hand towel or something on the nearby rear glass so shards don't scratch, though it will likely be coming off in 1 piece for the most part. You're also implementing another crossover and multiple speakers to cover a frequency range. If I was doing rears..I'd be running a full range 4-5" speaker, though again...I'd need to figure out the exact range the signal is before making any final judgments.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Rears = Lame

Mug

Here are pics of my CTX tweets. I kept the Kappa rings and just dropped them in with the provided flush lip.



Outside:


I'm very happy with the visual and audible results. Music sounds like it has so much depth now and I can turn up the volume for the mid range without my ears bleeding.

jda123

With regard to the rears, the stock stuff is midbass only in the range of 100-3000 hertz (roughly). If you hook up some aftermarket coax, or comps, with a different signal, you might get highs coming from back there that not many people like. If you are going to use a midbass for a rear, then just use the stock speakers, they aren't too bad for fill.

Mug

Oh, so what everyone is saying is that if I use the stock amp for the rear, the speakers only receive mid range frequencies so the two way speakers are pointless?

Mug

More progress.

RBeachTL

Stock HU outputs full range to the rears. I'm not sure if the stock amp applies any filtering; I run my amps off of the HU pre-amp signal. The rear speakers are mid-range only drivers and their response drops off above 3kHz. If you listen to DVD-A discs you will notice the difference with high freq. response in the rear.

I hate cars

Rear is full range on the high end.

So you think those tweeters were bright after all?

rich20730

Looks good! Was it hard to get full coverage without covering up any of the holes where the clips pop into?

Mug

Yes, they were so horrid. I'd like to point out that there is a difference between good highs and being bright. I read a lot of the reviews, but I love crisp clear highs. I thought everyone was saying that the highs were just too loud. I assumed I would like that in the first place, and second, I could turn down the treble if they were too high for me.

This was not the case. The kappa tweets bring out so much "noise" in the music. Once I put the CTX tweets in, I was shocked at how clear they were. Since they were clear and not noisy, I was able to turn them louder which increased my mid range (which are still the kappa woofers, I need different spacers).

It's sad that I did so many things wrong on this install. I look back and feel I wasted so much money that could have been spent on better components. There doesn't seem to be a market for this hardware once it's in your hands.

Looking back, I was trying to be frugal. I would not have purchased any of the Infinity products. But, that is knowing what I know now.

It looks a lot easier to do that it is. I covered the holes and found them later by pressing the panel down and then going back and using a screw driver to make the hole. I'm sure my panel is sitting a little higher since it is now floating on the dynamat.

I put the seat back in and like everyone says, more rattles up front. Without the seat in the back, there were so many rattles from back there that I didn't notice the ones up front. I'm not going to hunt them down at this moment.

My front spacers come it next week, then I get to install my CTX woofers. That's when I'll dynamat the front doors. Then I'll know if I need to bridge my amp and run the rears off of the stock amp.

Question about the front doors: The concept is to seal them up right? The more air tight they are, the better the mid response I'm assuming. If that's the case, what is everyone doing with that foam block behind the door panel? I've seen people seal up the holes with sheet metal or plastic. I'm planing on cutting out the original moisture barrier and putting that under the dynamat where the foam extends into the door. All other holes I'll just use dynamat (like my sub above).

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You should be very surprised by the CTX's over the Infinity 6.5's.

Basically correct on the concept of sealing. By foam block...do you mean the yellow block thing attached to the door panel? If so, I just shaved it down with a hand saw/dremel to be flush with the door panel b/c I've got a layer of CCF/MLV there so it won't go "into" the door b/c of those. I'd just pull off anything that's already on there. No need for it

rich20730

I cut the foam block off with a hack saw - worked pretty good. About sealing up the big holes: Let me tell you what I did as an example of what NOT to do. I glued some 1/4" MDF over the big holes. Then I covered that with dynamat, only to realize that the door panel wouldn't go back on Aside from the fit issues, it's probably not a good idea to use MDF inside you car door where it is frequently going to be exposed to moisture. I ended up just covering all of it with dynamat and it sounds fine. No rattles, plenty of midbass. So, if you do decide to seal up the holes, make sure whatever you use is thin and will hold up against moisture.

I hate cars

That was why I tried to warn you in advance. I did the exact same upgrades. Mine went Infinity Kappa, ID CTX65cs, Dynaudio Esotec, Dynaudio Esotar. In the beginning I associated overly bright with detail and liked the Infinities for a while. Then I installed the IDs and they had every bit as much detail but without the ear bleeding. Then I went Dynaudio and it's on a completely different level of detailed, accurate, life-like while never getting harsh.

Big holes need to be covered with something fairly rigid. Doors don't have to be airtight but the big holes should be covered, especially the closer to the speaker they are. The door speakers are effectively IB, at no point does the door act as an enclosure so you're not trying to seal it up to act as an enclosure, you're just trying to stop the backwave from meeting the front wave. It's also important to seal the face of the midbass to the door panel.

On the rear deck, you need a way for bass to make it through. I would have left the stock sub hole open unless going IB.

Many of the rattles up front can be traced to the top console by the mirror. I removed the console and added small stips of Damplifier and also to the metal braces in the roof and to the top side of the sun roof cover which made a huge difference.

Mug

Ok, I was able to the passenger side this afternoon. It took my 5 hours! I made the hole bigger to fit the ID CTX, Dynamat and new MDF spacer.

Here is the enlarged hole. Tin snips and a jig saw helped, but it was a pain.


Dynamat:


ID:


I cut the foam block in half and double stick taped it back in the door under the dynamat. I had to shave some of the MDF it the top right corner because it would clear the door panel. Even then it doesn't quite fit right.

As far as sound goes, at first I thought the Kappa was louder. But I think it suffers from the same problem as its tweeter. Even the mid is harsh! The ID puts out more mid (could be due to the deadening) and sounds way less tinny.

I think it is worth it after all the blood and sweat. I just wish there was a way to fit the panel back on. I seem to have a lot of problems with this.

I hate cars

That upper right corner is what makes fitting an 8" nearly impossible. If it wasn't for that, everything else clears. Anyway, looks good. It's kind of neat to have both installed at the same time to compare. I did this same thing when I went from the Image Dynamics to the Dynaudios. I think I faded left to right about 100 times that night.

I think you will really like the IDs. I had no complaints with them. Good midbass, good tweeter that you could listen to for hours without getting fatiguing. The only thing I would have changed was a little more midrange but I didn't have EQ back then. I think with just a little EQ ability, they would be perfect. Definitely one of the best bang for the buck component sets out there. I always wanted to try that set active to see how good I could get them to sound but I never got around to it before selling them. One thing is for sure, they laugh at the amount of power the Infinities would bottom out on. With enough power, these things should provide nearly twice the midbass before bottoming.

Mug

I'm definitely going to bridge the front channel and run the rears off of the stock amp once I mount the ID on the other side. The available time I have for this project was grossly underestimated.

Gizmo 04

Man that looks good

Mug

I was able to do the driver's door last night. I thought my picture would be helpful to those cutting the door to allow speakers to fit. I had trouble with 1" spacers, so I bought 3/4" MDF for the ID CTXcs. The passenger side was installed about 1/4" above the stock square speaker mount hole. The spacer was dead center based on the other two OEM holes. This caused my clearance issues with the panel. I shaved the MDF spacer at the 3 O'Clock position to get the panel to fit.

So on the driver's side, I mounted the top screw the same (1/4" inch above the stock square hole), but pivoted the bottom of spacer toward the front of the car. No problems getting it to fit.

I cut the door using a Dremel metal cutting wheel. The heavy duty style with the 90 degree attachment. Sparks everywhere, but it was better than the tin snips or jig saw.



My wife was worried my kid would resent me since I've spent so much time on this install. At one point last night, I was cutting dynamat with her on my lap. I had to finish!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvkhO...ature=youtu.be

They sound less tinny or harsh than the Kappa woofers. Yes, even the woofers in the Kappa components were harsh. Now I'm going to see what the IDs sound like bridged since I'm slowly turning the fade down in the rear.

And my memory buttons don't work now. Anyone know which connector I forgot to plug in? I didn't test everything, but the locks and windows work.

Seatown1two

So I'm getting ready to do the same thing on my doors to mount the woofer in the stock location and have a few questions.. On the drivers side did you only use the MDF ring? Did you put anything on the other side of the speaker to protect against water? Did you have to modify the inside of the door panel at all?

I just took my door panel off today to try and plan out what I'm gonna do but I've never installed a set of comps b4.. In the process of taking the door off I snapped the green plastic piece that's holding the cable to the door handle in half.

Just want to make sure I don't make anymore dumbass mistakes...


BTW install looks great!!

Mug

I was worried about water at first, but decided not to care. I haven't seen anyone with problems yet. Plus, if it fries my speakers, it's just another reason to upgrade!

After cutting the hole, I put touch up paint on the bare metal. Then wrapped the dynamat around the edge of the hole before putting the spacer on. I painted the spacer with spray paint to seal the wood. I did two coats of paint. Then I put a bead of buytal rubber on the inside seem of the spacer once it was mounted to the door.

Mug

Okay, more questions for the pros. So I bridged my 5 channel amp to the front and I love it! I'm going to power the rear off of the stock amp but will need to re-wire a few things. Also, is it normal to have to move your inputs to retain stereo?

My fronts boom now! So now I'm worried about my sub. Earlier posts mentioned that my sub was weak. I wanted to know if just swapping the infinity for an ID12D4 V3 would be a beneficial upgrade. My sub sounds kinda sloppy with the music I'm familiar with. My box is a 1.25 cubic feet and my amp is a Kappa five.

Thanks again for any help.

Mug

I got up early this morning and decided to drop in this new sub:











It was too early to crank it up so I'll be testing it in a few hours.