I just ordered two of these subs. I've just about given up on ever receiving my AE IB15s and even if I do, I need something to hold me over until then.

So I got the Tempest. It's designed for home use and I'm worried the low end is going to be bloated. Hopefully the MS8 can eq the low end down a little. One of them models pretty nice in a 15 cubic foot trunk. Two actually look better with a little less low end.

I'm assuming no one here has run them in a trunk before but I thought I would ask anyway. I guess worst case if they sound terrible I'll install them in the living room.

The technology looks great but we'll see what they sound like in a car. One nice thing is the 26mm xmax. Two 15s with that kind of excursion should move some air not that I need it. My single 12W6 sounds amazing and it gets pretty loud. The only reason I'm going with something else is because I made the mistake of selling both of them when I ordered the AEs.

 

What ever happened with the AE's? I know they were starting to refund or they went bankrupt or something. They still trying to ship out or will they not just give you your refund. Sucks because those seemed really solid for IB

 

Supposedly I'll still receive mine but it's going to be a few more months. They have a no refund policy but there are always ways to get the money back. I'm trying to hold out because IMO they're the best IB sub out there. That's the only one I would trade the W6s for. I'm afraid if I hold out too long they might declare bankruptcy and I'll never see the money so not sure what is going to happen. This has been going on for many years with them so it seems to be business as usual for them. There's always a personal emergency, firing of all employees, employees ripping them off, etc. I might feel sorry for them if I believed any of it.

 

Hopefully build quality doesn't suffer when going through crap like this. I know they hand assemble it all and are very proud of their products, but still a little scarry with this situation. Tough choice for ya!

I know you were looking at the Flatlyne for awhile also. Not a good IB sub?

 

I've heard it works great IB. The only thing that stopped me is it only has 18mm of xmax and I wanted something that would only require one sub if I chose to only run one. The Tempest has a huge 26mm xmax so one might be enough. If I don't like the Tempest, the Flatlyne is next on my list. I've never heard anything bad about it. Plus I just found 4 Tempests brand new unopened for $200 each. The biggest mistake I made was getting rid of what I know works, the W6.

 

Yeah 18mm of xmax isn't all that great if you ran 1. At least the w6's wouldn't be too hard to get ahold of if you decided the Tempest or Flatlyne didn't suite your needs. They are all over craigslist, shops, etc here in Oklahoma so I can only imagine somewhere more populated. You're ideas are rubbing off on me though...ID or Bandpass might be coming shortly with my w6's

 

Exodus audio is gooooood stuff. Never heard the them in an IB config, though

 

I hope it sounds great. Not a whole lot of info in IB use as you said.

 

You'll love them in those configurations. The SQ is way better.

The neat thing is the W6 has either 26mm or 28mm of excursion before hitting xmech so you can get decent SPL out of it IB. I can't tell a degradation in SQ even when pushing it nearly 2" total excursion. It stays quiet and sounds great well past it's xmax.

 

I can't sleep so I decided to do some fun math...

A single Tempest will move 1.26 times more air than two 12W6s. This new setup will move 4.5 times more air than my old one.

The Tempest has 40mm of excursion before xmech!

Wiring the Tempest in parallel brings the LE down to .245 from .98. Maybe this would translate to better upper end? Not sure if my amp can handle 1 ohm though.

Running one in a 15 cubic foot trunk gives a Q of .5. Running two brings it to. 7 which is ideal in theory but i'm not sure if that's the number to shoot for in IB. Also seems like it would quickly go too high if the trunk was loaded.

Looking at the specs side by side they are very similar to the AE IB15 which is a very good thing. Based on numbers alone, this could turn out to be a very good setup.

 

Higher the q, the better in IB, no?

 

How long till you get the Tempest and set them up? I wanna hear the review

 

Yes, in theory, if they are tested right and stuff. The closer to 1 the better.

 

That was the way of thinking. Now it seems to be around .45. John at AE has written some neat stuff on this. I really don't remember the exact reasoning around this. I know part of it is incase you use two subs you don't go over .707 or it will sound terrible, the same as putting a sub in a box that's way too small. Going less than .707 will also allow you to load the trunk with stuff and still have good low end. There is a lot more behind it but back when I read it I did not even know what Q was. I believe the cabin volume has some influence on the overall Q in an IB setup too. I'll dig around for that paper, it would be nice to read again and hopefully it will make more sense this time. The big thing I remember was it could still sound great at a .45 but not past .707.

I should have them late this week so probably the following weekend. Going to get the MDF tonight and I'll spend an hour each day making the baffle so hopefully when the sub comes in it won't take too long to install.

This time around I'm going to make a nice frame that's permanent and sealed to the car and use hardware that's easily removable that won't wear out. That way making a new baffle is as easy as cutting a rectangle and a hole or two so I can try different setups quickly. I'm stepping up to 1" MDF and it will probably be doubled up. These subs are heavy plus I don't want any flexing. It's going to weigh as much as a sealed box.

 

I have read that article from AE and it sounded more to me like the article was post-written to support the subs that they made, rather than that they made the subs that way on purpose based on research. I mean, really, consider the source and all of the other things that you know about said source. While our trunks are not truly IB, they are not truly 15 cu ft sealed either. I would still look for the highest Q possible subs according to more conventional and uninterested party research and knowledge. However, it will not likely matter too much and most should do great.

 

I thought about their intentions but if you look at their home vs car or the IB15 vs IB15a, the biggest change is the .42 for the car vs the .7 for the home. They specifically changed this parameter for the car.

I started comparing the popular IB subs and all but the Dynaudio have a low QTS.

Another way of thinking that seems to be getting more popular is to not worry too much about the Q as long as it's in the ballpark. Some seem to think having the flattest frequency response is the goal regardless of the Q.

I have no idea which way is correct. I know my 12W6 sounds amazing and that's .45. I can try a single Tempest first with a low Q and then both together for a .7 and see which one sounds better. Modeling them shows more low end for the single low Q and better 40-70hz with two. With cabin gain, it seems like the .7 would be best but who knows. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to pick something in the ballpark but actually trying it out is the only way to know for sure.

I've been concentrating on a low LE value as this seems to be nearly as important as the total Q. The Tempests' inductance is already low but if I run the coils in parallel 1 ohm, it drops nearly as low as the AE. I *think* this will give it better top end. I switched my 12W6 from 8ohm to 2ohm and backed off the gains to match the previous level and I could swear it had better upper frequency but maybe it's my imagination.

 

I really gotta hear these AE IB subs. The last time i seen "best" this and "best" that was the jl rant i read on here 2 yrs ago. hate cars knows exactly what i'm talking about, too lol.

 

Lol. It was a lot more lively with Jason around.

I've seen so many great reviews by so many high end users that I had to try them. By most accounts this is THE IB sub. Its too bad they stopped making them. I've already been offered 1.5 times what I paid for them. I'm usually disappointed when I finally hear a hyped up product but these things were nothing short of amazing in every way. They dug deep to 20hz but you could actually play midrange with them. Even crossed at 150hz they were great.

 

Here's some interesting discussion on the different alignments. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...tightness.html

 

Just got it in the mail. I ended up only going with one until I know if I like the sound. I was promised the AE IB15s would be here in less than a month too so I didn't want to get two of these just yet. Unfortunately I have to work this weekend so I won't be able to install until next Friday. Here's some pictures of it. I have no idea why it always looks so small in pictures, both mine and others on the internet. This thing looks huge and beefy. The magnet is giant as is the entire frame but it looks small in pictures.

 

Got this thing installed last night. It's not broken in and I've only had an hour worth of listening time because I have to work all weekend and I've been going on 4 hours of sleep for the past 10 days.

It's way too early to compare to the 12W6, that would not be fair to the Tempest but if I had to compare I would say the 12W6 beats it in every category except for output.

However, it sounds very nice on just about anything. It has a colder bass than the W6 but it plays everything well. I think the bass has lost some of it's detail. With the W6 you could pick apart different instruments playing at the same time, the detail was just amazing. This setup sounds like a very good sealed box while the W6 sounded better than anything I've heard, even full competition cars.

The Tempest does sound a little better on some old country music like Waylon Jennings. Rap goes deep, hits very hard, and feels like it's going to shake the car apart. It's effortless but just not as warm sounding. Looking at the sub, it barely moves on some notes and at some volumes that had the W6 past it's xmax.

I purposely tried it out without doing a retune of the MS8 first just to see what it sounded like on the same tune as the W6. I was very worried because it had very little 50-70hz bass which is where the W6 had a little peak (before MS8 installation). I did an auto tune and it made a huge difference. Brought back the missing range and it sounds great. Deep bass is better too. You could actually tell where the MS8 was EQ-ing to give a flat repsonse, pretty neat.

Output is no competition. The Tempest flexes the roof and makes the mirrors unusable. Where a single 12W6 in IB was only good for semi-loud SQ use, this one is all you could ever need unless you want to be heard a mile away.

I really like the Tempest, it sounds better than anything I've had up to the W6 in infinite baffle form. It sounds better than the W6 in the sealed and ported boxes, close to the same as the bandpass. As I said, this is not fair because it's not broken in and I have not listened to even a full hour of music after the tune. I have to say it has the potential to be right there with the W6 with some more tuning and break-in.

More to come in a few weeks.

 

Gotta let it loosen up a lil more

Glad you like it, though

 

I did a search to see exactly what changes when they loosen up and break in. Most just claim more low end bass. Should be interesting. I'll probably drive the car into work tomorrw to give an extra hour and a half of listening and break-in time.