frank69m

I spoke with one service advisor yesterday and he said that because my computer still says 50% left, there is no need for an oil change.

However, i haven't changed my oil in my FIRST 4,000 miles on my 06 TL and i've had it for 6 months.


The advisors said that since it says 50% and it really bases that on my driving conditions, it is a waste of money.

Now, another advisor in another dealership said that I should change it within the first 3000 miles because of metal in the oil because of a new car.


Who the heck to i believe?

The break in period for my vehicle is over right? So Mobil 1 should be ok at this time?

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

Please trust your own judgement and don't listen to dealer cause most of the time they are clueless and not interested to learn. After all it is your car and you have to live with it. So....
As you probably know Honda factory filled oil is enriched to ensure proper engine break in and decreased wear. That said I believe the consensus is that by the first 3500 miles the break in is over and therefore there is no harm to change your original oil and filter, mostly for your peace of mind, though, cause the original oil is still good until 5000 miles/ MID tells to change/ or 1 year passed. I did it 3750 with synthetic and the oil seemed fairly clean then. After your first change do it every 5K or when the MID tells you to. Its easy. Do the change yourself if you can, you'll get high satisfaction and get to know you car better. As far as what oil and filter to use, I personally use synthetic with Honda filter since TL has performance engine and I like it. Remember oil and filters are cheap but are crucial to your car health. Just my Enjoy your TL
Everyone please correct me if I am wrong

frank69m

Cool. Thanks. I wasn't sure because I've had the vehicle for 6 months/4,000 miles with a 50% MID left....I was wondering about the 6 month thing, but it looks like I can probably wait another 500 miles or 1000 miles before I can switch it to synthetic.

Thanks for the info on the break-in.

By the way, what was your MID at 3500 miles...just curious.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

Hey you are welcome, hope my post helped to make up your mind a little. Answering your question about the MID, to be honest I don't remember exactly but I think it was like 30%. I don't really trust the MID much but it does kinda match 5000 miles or 6 month, at least in my case. Like i said do what's best for your piece of mind knowing the facts. By the way, you don't have to go with synthetic if you don't race, drive much, very hard, in traffic or wheather isn't extreme where you are, otherwise it's $ spent unwisely for synth cost you at least 2x more than dyno. Just use good dyno oil like Havoline 5w30 or 10w30, and change it regularly, every 3750 miles or 6 month if you want to or choose your own interval. If you really worried or curious try one of those oil labs ( Blackstone Labs????) where they analyze used oil you send them and give you a detailed report on how the oil holds up in your engine at your chosen interval. That way you can accurately tailor your oil change intervals as long as your driving conditions remain the same. I didn't try that but I'm curious. I went the synthetic way cause I drive a lot and good deal of that in stop n go New York traffic and lots of short trips, too. Also wheather, summers are hot and humide and winters are cold and long. A lot depends on your driving style, location and your comfort level. Good luck!

avs007

I'd change the oil whenever you feel like it, if it will mean you can sleep better at night. There shouldn't be any metal shavings in your oil regardless if your car is new. A lot has changed in manufacturing technology since that rule of thumb came about.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Believe the first service advisor. There is additives to the "break in oil" that are there for a reason, I believe. Seems like the 6 month thing is kind of getting there...but I would listen to the MID (your computer) for the first one and do what you want from there. Like they say...if it makes you feel good...go for it! The TL does have some type of analyzer in it that takes into account your driving habits, stresses put on engine, ect. My first oil change didnt happen until like 9000 miles or something. Recently I took it to the autocross...and the light came on again in way less time...so it does really know what you are doing and the condition of the oil.

avs007

I'm sure Acura's is the same, but in the description for the oil life indicator on GM cars, it explains that the ECU determines oil life based on engine speed, engine load, vehicle speed, air/fuel mixture, etc, so it can determine the life-expectancy of the additive package in the oil. So I'm sure the ECU can better figure out when is a good time to change the oil than simply guessing by the mileage.

The only variable that's missing, are things the ECU can't figure out. Like what quality oil and filter you used, and how dusty it is, etc. With that being said, I never run down the indicator to 0% for the same reason I don't run the gas tank down so low the engine stalls. I change the oil when it drops below 30% or so.

jhcivicex

Im sure you read your owners manual first. But as a service advisor who is "very eager" to learn any Honda/Acura news or TSB's I am required by Honda to be up to date on all vehicle owners manuals. This is for, providing the correct information to customers an of course making more money. I dont know what dealer you took your car to but where I work we take this very seriously. A vehicle is normaly a persons second largest investment. If I dont know the question I will find somebody who does. Your vehicle's maintenance minder is based on "normal" and "severe" driving conditions. avs007 is correct, the computer calculates air/fuel and average miles per hour. This will provide information to you on your trip information. Avg. mpg, avg. speed etc. Honda recommends to use your maintenance minder system for your scheduled maintenances. Follow your owners manual for the specific services needed A, B OR C. Neither service advisor was correct. There is no specific mileage for your first oil change according to Honda/Acura. This is why the manufacture made the effort to install the maintenance minder system. In my personal experience, on average the first oil change is anywhere from 6 to 12 months and 5,000 to 10,000 miles. But I do see 3k mile oil changes and some 12k mile oil changes on occasion. I also personally like to change my oil every 3,750 or 3 months, its habit. You can pm me if you have questions or wish to bash me.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

It's cool,
if you are the person you say you are than I'm glad that there are still people like you, those who take their job seriously and are good at it. I really appreciate your effort. Tell me where you are and I would visit you when my car needs a service or a warranty work. You see, in my experience I knew more about my car than the ADVISORS I brought it to and they were unprofessional too. I hear similar stories from others here. I'm not saying that all advisors are like that but...
Anyways thanks for sharing your experiences. By the way, when did you change your factory oil and what have you been using since, your driving conditions?

jhcivicex

Im not offended in any way. I have seen advisors come and go very quickly only because they are in it for the money. I work at Fairfax Honda in No. VA. I cant do warranty repairs on Acura only Honda(unable to access Acura VIN inquiries). I purchased my 04' TL navi used. I would have changed it at 6 months or 5k miles though and 3 months 3k miles after. Thats how I maintane all my cars. 94' Civic, 05 TSX AND 04 TL. Just recently I had to deal with an Acura dealer myself for a door lock actuator on my wifes TSX and my experience overall was rated good, only because it took 30 minutes for loaner and 10 minutes to pick up my car. I get paid off of whats called "CSI" , this is a survey that you get in the mail. If this survey is under 90%, thats considered a failing grade. I lose 1 percent of my check about 1,500 bucks. So all in all I have to be at least 90% on top of my game. This is how most dealers structure pay plans for salesman and service advisors. Its actually a smart way for a dealers to provide descent customer service. Anyways, if your in the area come on by and I will treat you to an oil change.

JetJock

When I purchased my '04 TL, the dealer told me not to change the oil until the MID said it was time. I thought it was bogus, but decided to let the break-in oil do it's thing. I let the MID get to 40% before I got scared of the dirty oil. I changed it when the car had approx. 4700 miles on the OD. I also had Blackstone Lab's analyze the oil. What the lab report said shocked me. The oil had tons of metal, was totally used up and should have been changed much earlier. I let the dealer overide my own judgment. I will NEVER again, let a new engine run so long on dirty oil. I usually change the oil at 1500 miles on a new engine. The MID might be OK once the engine has broken in, but that first oil contains all the wear metal and should be changed once the engine has properly broken in. By 1500 miles, the engine is properly broken in. There might be some additional breakin of some parts, but the majority of the metal has already gone into the oil and filter.

frank69m

EXCELLENT FEEDBACK. ALL NEW OWNERS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS.

And you are probably right, the MID is after the breakin...The owners manually doesn't talk about this stuff. I'm glad i did my first oil change 2 days ago at my mileage. Most of mine is highway anyways.

Cecilt

For those that have changed the first oily prior to the MID indicating to do so did you reset your MID or leave it alone and let it run its course and maybe the 2nd oili change comes sooner and then you reset the MID. I hear resetting the MID off cycle messes with the other service indicators. Seems logical to do the first oil change before 3k miles and if the MID is reading 50% keep it that way. When the MID falls below 15% then change the oil the 2nd time and reset the MID. Advice?

KJSmitty

If 1% of your monthly check is $1,500.00 then I want your job... Then again you would be the best paid service advisor I have ever, ever, ever heard of.... Then again if $1,500.00 is 1% of your annual salary you would still be the best paid service advisor I have ever, heard of.... Especially at a Honda shop

You do the math :-)

Good on you for your attitude though. You are among the "service advisor minority".....

Smitty

jhcivicex

The month of June total monthly sales gross $105,891.00 COD Parts, Labor Warranty Parts, Labor, shop supplies and internal parts sale. I get 8% as a bonuse due to my average sales earnings minus $800 monthly draw. On average the pay is 6% if you dont have the hours per hour, effective labor rate and parts to labor ratio sold at your shops labor rate. I also get spiff or bonus which is related to BG products (crap). Before taxes and after draws $7671.28 not including spiff check Month of June $1381.00. Average national service advisor yearly pay, $60k to $120k depending on what vehicle manufacture. Japenesse imports are of the best to work for. If you need a job let me know, we are hiring. We have a total of 9 writers that make the same if not more than me. I dont know why you would think service advisors dont get paid this much. This is tough job dealing with people such as some of what heard on here. Think about it.....

avs007

Seems kinda messed up to have the service department get commission/bonuses based on how much they sell, in this particular industry. Almost seems unethical. Perhaps that explains my experience...

I brought my car in to have the transmission serviced. I knew it was the pressure regulator, based on what people were saying on the forums. The dealer confirmed it. However, they said they were going to replace all the seals to. Replacing the seals requires an overhaul and 20 hours of labor. (Wheras simply replacing the regulator was only 2 hours of labor). So they charged my over $2000 to service the tranny, when the part was only $50, and the labor only should've been 2 hours. I just wanted my car fixed, and didn't investigate further until I got the car back. I also realised that they had my car for 15 hours from the time I dropped it off to the time I picked it up. So how did they charge me for 21 hours of labor?

Another time at a different dealer, my windows went kaput. They told me that the regulator and the motor only come as a single unit. So I had to pay $330 or so for the unit. However, when it went kaput again a year later, I found that the dealer actually lied, because I was able to get the motor and regulator separately from the dealer. So I only paid $90 or so for the motor by itself.

I've even had the acura dealer tell me that I need to buy 4 new tires because they were worn out, even though I just had 4 new tires installed the week earlier. Service advisor admitted he didn't actually look at the tires. He was going by mileage

I've also had the acura dealer tell me that I needed to have the radiator flushed because the coolant was dirty, even though they just replaced the radiator due to a rock-puncture, a month previous.

Not bad mouthing the industry or anthing, just ranting about previous experiences.

KJSmitty

OOOhhh, I'd rather not think about it.. I worked at at very large dealership for over 8 years.. Wouldn't do it again unless I ran the place - for reasons you eluded to.

Sorry you took my post the wrong way, read yours then mine again... The way I read yours was $1500 was 1% of your monthly salary.. Thus your monthly salary would equate to $150,000.00. Even $150K per year exceeds the nations averages for service adviser's - this I did know due to having several friends who own dealerships. Overall, my intent was a little humor.

As for needing a job, maybe in a few years when I retire from this one. Besides, I have become accustomed to, well lets just say a different salary - and I currently don't deal with that many "wankers", i.e. customers.. (And I'm not sure I would handle them properly if I did.... )

I just wish I could meet a SA or SM/GM that didn't always act like he/she knew everything when all they are doing is BS'ing.... It may work for many, but with my background there isn't anything about a vehicle either electrical or mechanical that I don't understand. Bottom line, I would like to have a conversation with the service dept that didn't have me thinking they were a bunch of con-artists... It's always, "what can I tell this guy to justify the cost and/or why we did or did not do something to his vehicle"... The lack of integrity and honesty is why dealerships (and many businesses) in general have such a bad wrap.

Again, sorry for the interpretation. Keep up the good work and please continue to treat your customers and their vehicles as they deserve...


Cheers

jhcivicex

$150,000 a year would be great to make a year but the reality is, you dont(unless your the SM). Sales is season based in most fields and this is one of them. I do "ok" for my education and background but im sure I could do better. And as some have posted there experiences here, I admit that alot of business's not only dealerships in general take advantage of consumers to make more money. It is unfortunate that people scam other people but guess what, nobody gets the best deal unless you make the deal yourself. The sales industries are money making industries, the big guy wins 99% of the time. The big guy, (GM) dont appreciate customer relation skills thats why the pay for training through the vehicle manufacture, they care about monthly sales projections and will fire and hire as needed to make those projections. Cut throat business! I never want to be hated on by any customers and get offended when I have to represent a "bad deal" but somebody has to do it. For the ones here that have worked at the dealer know working there is worst than shopping there and thats a FACT! As for the guy that got ripped off on your transmission and window regulator, just like the doctor, get a second opinion, this allows you to compare prices and negotiate when needed. Labor rates are locked in by the dealer but the amount of work you want performed is not. I prefer warranty work over cod sales for this reason, I cant be trusted due to crack pot advisors that only see dollar signs and not a life customer. All of you guys talk about is the bad experiences but nobody ever talks about the good ones. (IMPRESSIONS ARE THE BEST SALE)I would guess that I do more work for free than anything else. My pants are torn and my shirts are stained for this free work. Im not sure where you guys take your cars but if you care for your car as much as you care about yourself (I DO) then you would go out of way to take somewhere just like going out of way to see a doctor! I hope I dont get bashed for any of this and do hope that some of you will see that not all advisors are used car salesman.

And by the way, if you are taking your Acura to a Acura dealer you are paying more for the name, take it to a Honda dealer for maintenance, its a whole lot cheaper and exactly the same scheduled maintenances as other Honda's.

jhcivicex

I just wish I could meet a SA or SM/GM that didn't always act like he/she knew everything when all they are doing is BS'ing.... It may work for many, but with my background there isn't anything about a vehicle either electrical or mechanical that I don't understand. Bottom line, I would like to have a conversation with the service dept that didn't have me thinking they were a bunch of con-artists... It's always, "what can I tell this guy to justify the cost and/or why we did or did not do something to his vehicle"... The lack of integrity and honesty is why dealerships (and many businesses) in general have such a bad wrap


Cheers[/QUOTE]
I justify the price with quality and experience doing the repair and reassure the customer with confidence, if this isnt enough than I give up and normally they will call back or come back within a month or so. (fishing takes patience)

thassett

How does this work? After I change the oil, does it automatically know that I did this and reset? Or is there a procedure to reset the MM after each oil change and service? I just turned 3,000 miles on my '06 TL and am still learning...... Thanks!

Andrew McCarthy

You have to manually reset it- check the 3G Garage. It's easy.

VTECboy

Hey, you were great in "Weekend at Bernie's". I remember you in "Class" and "Pretty in Pink" too.

cristphoto

The procedure is in your owners manual. Note also that when you reset the MID some of the calculations get forwarded to the next maintenance interval. This is also explained in your manual. I found that this is only an issue if your first oil change is ahead of the MID suggestion (like if you want to do an early oil change to flush out any factory debris in the engine and convert to synthetic oil - highly recommended). After that I've been following the MID's advice. It's a learning curve if you're coming from cars that didn't have this feature - like my previous Buick.

Andrew McCarthy

Thanks. I usually get that "where have I seen that guy before?" stare.