automophile

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE my new TL. It and the TSX are the new car bargains of the century! However, for a car that has been as carefully planned as this one, it seems that Honda/Acura shortchanged us on a few things:

First - Things that are on our lower priced TSX, but NOT on the TL:

1. Turn Signals on the Side Mirrors! - What a FAN-tastic idea! They are right at driver eye-level and REALLY get attention. Acura did such a great job on the TSX, they can be seen for more than 180 degrees, even from behind the car. Strangely, in the TL brochure the TL is listed as having them in the confort and safety section. What happened? Did Acura decide that we don't deserve the added safety?

2. Manual Trunk Release - On the TSX there is a little button above the license plate so that you can open the trunk manually when the car is unlocked. This is NOT to be found on the more expensive TL. You must go find your keys or go into the car and find the trunk release button, which is very poorly placed in my opinion. Why is the TSX favored with this privlege and we're not?

3. Fog Lights - The TSX has the option of REAL fog lights placed below the bumper (and the fog), but the TL has converted DRLs up high where they don't work as well. Doesn't make sense.

And other things I believe the TL SHOULD have had:

4. DRLs - The Canadians are lucky to have these. I wasn't sure about having them when I got my '99 Solara, but after seeing several drivers take a second look and stop before pulling out in front of me, I began to appreciate their value. Why don't we have them? As soon as a hack is posted for the '04 to allow the fog lights to run with the parking lights, I will do this in a second. I don't care if I must replace bulbs more often, you are MUCH better off being seen than not seen. Sure, I can leave on the headlights, but our projector type lights are not so visible from a wide angle like the conventional DRL bulbs.

5. Auto headlights - My much cheaper Solara (like many other Toyota products) had this feature, and it also became much appreciated over the years. As you are driving during the day, they will come on at dusk, even before you are aware of needing them. And, you can't leave the headlights on by accident. Our cars have all the right sensors and computers, so why not, Acura?

6. Alarm controller in Key - The cheaper Accord has the alarm control built into the key, but we have to carry the key AND the controller. Why don't we rate the smaller controller?

Are you listening Honda/ Acura?

How about the rest of you - do you agree? Any other suggestions?

acuraddict

What's the point of dwelling on the things that aren't on the car? I can't believe how many people are on this website complaining about little things and talking about what needs to change.

A lot of you guys are perseverating on the negatives, and drawing all of our attention to things that are NEVER GOING TO BE ON THIS CAR!

Turn signals on the side mirrors? SO WHAT?

Bad placement of the trunk release? You'll get used to it!

A different way of setting the window wiper speed? Give me a friggin break already!

You sound like a bunch of "princess and the pea" candidates.

I love this car, and nothing you say is going to change it. When the 2005 comes out, you can trade in your 2004. Then you'll find three of four things that you miss about the 2004, so you can trade in for the 2006 the following year. Then the Type S will come along and you can trade in again.

RJC RSX

this is stupid. The way I see it, the TL has better versions of 1, 2, and 3. I wouldn't want DRL's, and I hate auto headlights, i want to have full control when my lights are on or off. I also prefer a seperate key.

DNA

automophile:

I'm surprised you didn't mention another "lost" feature found on the TSX: the fold-down back seat. The other differences are minor in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.

Acuraadict:

I love my TL and agree there's not much reason to complain about what we didn't get. I don't know if Acura's marketing department reads our comments on this forum. Probably not. It seems like it would be helpful to them if they did, however.

Nevertheless, it is in my nature to think about how something could be better no matter how good it is already. Maybe that's why I'm an engineer. You are right, if this car had every feature found on every car ever made, I'd still think of a 100 missing features it should have.

In reading several threads, including the C&D review threads, I'm surprised how insecure many posters seem to be. I'm extremely happy with my TL, even if I can think of ways it could be better. I never thought I was buying a perfect car. It doesn't bother me one bit when other people think of ways it could be better. They are another kindred spirit.

RJC RSX

fold down back seats = increased interior noise

neuronbob

And reduced structural rigidity, leading to more interior noise.

I wish there'd been a way to improve rigidity AND have a fold-down back seat, though.

automophile

How is it that the TL has better features than the TSX if the TL doesn't have them?

Sure the TL is a FANTASTIC car. I'm not debating that. I own one. My point is that usually you get MORE features when you buy a more expensive model, not less. It is frustating to me, when such a wonderful car could have EASILY been just that much better.

Also - If you haven't had DRLs, Mirror Turn Signals and auto headlights, It's easy to dismiss them - you can't really appreciate what you are missing.

I would like the fold-down seat, I used it often in the Solara. However, I can vouch for the fact that the fold down seat DOES let in more noise, and I have read that it does compromise the torsional rigidity of the chassis. No big deal for a Solara type car, but a big deal for a TL. Oh well, that's what neighbors with SUVs are for!

TimN88

I agree with this one. I have an 03 tls and its such a pain to have the seperate key and remote. The remote also looks horrible after 6 months because the paint is scratched off from rubbing against the key in my pocket. They need to go with an Audi/VW folding key design, imo. Not only are they more practical and more compact, but they are fun to play around with if you are bored while standing in a line, waiting at the doctors office, watching Tv, etc!!

neuronbob

Automophile, I thought a little more about your comments.

1. The turn signals on the side mirrors are, I think, superflous. However, Acura must have at one time planned for them, hence the brochure and window sticker snafus. Perhaps next year!

2. Even on my 2002 TL-P, I always used the key fob to open the trunk. I'm just used to it as a result.

3. The fog light location makes sense to me. It also avoids unnecessary use--how many people do you see on the road using their fogs in clear weather simply because they look good? They are perfectly serviceable in fog.

4. DRLs are a hot topic of debate in the US. Even GM has gone back and forth with the issue. Until they are mandatory or Acura places them on our car, I use the rule of thumb that if I have to turn on the windshield wipers, or if it's so cloudy it's dark, I turn on the headlights, otherwise why bother?

5. Good point. I think that's a good idea for 2005 to have auto sensing headlights.

6. Also a good point.

Just my $ 0.02. I think you raise some very interesting discussion points. I'm extremely pleased with my car as is, though.

And to acuraddict...we are all essentially beta-testers who bought early. That's why you see so many nitpicking comments. It's not that we don't like the car. Our comments will make a super car even better next year, as I'm positive Acura monitors these groups. An Acura engineer even stopped by last month to ask about the quality of some interior parts, so I know they're lurking. I remember when I bought my 2002 TL--it was touted as having over 200 changes compared to the 2001, from styling changes to improved wind noise over the side mirrors. This shows Acura's attention to detail and customers' comments, and is why I will continue to be an Acura customer.

I love this car!!!

DNA

That's what my Acura salesman told me when I asked him if it was available on the TL. It sounded like a reasonable explanation for a couple seconds. Then I remembered that fold-down rear seats are an option on BMW sedans and standard on all BMW coupes including the M3. I've never heard anyone complain about BMW lacking in structural rigidity, and I'd be happy with the noise level in the 5-series with fold-down seats.

I'm not convinced this is a valid argument.

neuronbob

Your point is well taken. I hadn't considered that.

gregory28

I wrote Acura with 3 recommendations on making the car better:

More storage in the cabin; pouches in the fronts of the seats and in the rear arm rest.

Rear head rests that lower below the view of the rear window. I find rear visibility difficult with this car.

Better storage system in the trunk.

They wrote me back with a personal letter thanking me for my comments. I was happy to not receive a form letter. I believe writing them will at least give them input from owners of the car- not sure if they get a multitude of these. My comments are inexpensive improvements.

Automophile: I think some folks would definitely like to see your improvements made, unfortunately some are pricey. The car's price was increased 10% already from the '03 model. I remember the predicted estimated cost was going to be $1-2K more- Edmunds was one of the sources I read. I think the turn signals in the side mirrors weren't added to save money. I think they made the important improvements for the 3rd generation vehicle:

More horsepower, better handling, great sound system, hands-free cell, and better handling- did I mention that already? I do love the way the car performs.

sparky57

As for DRLs and auto sensing lights, just leave your lights on all the time. They will shut off after a short delay when you turn the car off and back on at restart.

BTW, I think DRLs are a stupid idea. They have NOT shown to be statistically beneficial and are highly distracting. Click the following link for details.


Drivers Against DRLs

rw

automophile

Thanks for all your comments. I will write and email Acura with the suggestions.

Of the suggestions, the only one that would really increase costs are the miirror/turn signals. AND - for the added safety here in L.A. where no one cares about anyone else on the road, I would pay more for them.

BTW- There are just as many "statistics" to show that DRLs are definitely beneficial, and after using them for 5 years, I can warrant this.

And - Fog lights are placed low for a reason - there is seldom fog down to the road. Placing them high lessens the usability.

Scott GN231

Agreed. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary or good information about why they were omitted (both here and in the Accord)?

It's such an obvious benefit to storage capacity that the true reason must be substantial. Perhaps it is cost.

-S.

sparky57

Evidently, you know something that NHTSA doesn't.

Or not.

rw

SlntSam

I don't think "Short Changed" are the right words to use. Because I knew all of this before I bought my TL, I compared it to some other cars that I was looking at and I picked the TL as the car I wanted to buy.

I would feel "Short Changed" if there was a feature that Acura said was included with the TL but I didn't get.

DNA

I agree. However, it is curious, I think, that the TL did drop a number of mostly minor features that the TSX has. Usually marketing departments go out of their way to ensure this doesn't happen. For example, how many features can you think of that are in the BMW 330i that aren't in the 530i (E60)? Car makers don't want buyers to say, "I was going to buy the new TL, but I need the folding backseats so I got the less expensive (and presumably less profitable) TSX instead." In fact, I know someone who changed their mind on which car they bought based solely on the folding rear-seat issue.

If the dropped features were unavoidable due to TL changes, improvements, or new features that were incompatible with the dropped TSX features, that would be understandable. But most of the features that automophile mentioned don't seem to be in that category. Except for the folding rear seat, none of the other lost features are very important to me. However, I do find it a curious and unusual marketing practice.

nickpoore

The question I find insteresting are:

Would I prefer daytime running lights or bluetooth phone capability.

Would I prefer mirror indicators or voice controlled navigation.

There are may cars with DRL's and indicators, there are very few with bluetooth or voice control.

The real question that should be asked is if Mercedes and BMW drivers are getting short-changed as their navigation system sucks big time in comparison with the TL.
Er. Yeah.

Just my 2c.

desualt

First post here, following this thread with interest (and many others).

I can't speak of things I haven't tested but will on the ones I had, as a reference I currently drive an Infiniti FX45 and thinking of changing for the TL, did a road test last week and I can think of little things that you guys are NOT short-changed:

The navigation system, is much (MUCH) better than the one in Infiniti cars (no touch screen operation but joggle button.

The dash presentation, controls, fluid lines and materials used make this interior one of the best I've seen, even better ranked than my previous car a Audi S4 2001.



That been said I can't add more right now as my test was short, but enough to open my eyes on this car, in some point, living with the FX45 is not easy and to one extend I do feel short changed (I will never say that to any other FX45 owner).

I will add more about this product if I ever decide to make the move and explain better the situation.

I sold the S4 last week so it is hitching a bit.

in the end, do not feel short-changed with the 04 TL

my first .02

Formula 350

I would rather have the others. I do not have a cell phone, so bluetooth is worthless to me. And guess what, ordering without Navi. I would prefer to have fog lights that I can turn on without the headlights. I would prefer the turn indicators on the mirror.

I do not care about DRL or fold down rear seat. But, I still ordered the car as it is the best OVERALL car that I could find.

Saintor

I would love turn signals on the side mirrors! They definitely add cachet.

As for DRL, I hated them back in 1989 when they were introduced as mandatory in Canada. I have changed my mind. They are lives saver in different situations.

LeMasseHammer

As a TSX owner, I have to say that I use the secret manual trunk latch all the time. My girlfriend's '03 Accord coupe doesn't have it, and it's mildly annoying.

The Accord's integrated key/fob is handy, but it's also very large. I prefer separate key and fob until they go with the switchblade type key.

I definitely like my side-view mirror blinkers.

bhroberts

Just turn on your headlights. On my Subaru Outback I just leave the lights in the ON position and they come on whenever I start the car. So much for DRLs. Can't you do this with the TL? Otherwise, how do you like the way the car drives? That's what I want to know. I have a 5MT Subaru and just test-drove the 6MT TL. I was a bit uncomfortable with the extra gear. Is that easy to get used to? Otherwise, I thought it performed well.

automophile

bhroberts - you are correct- We can leave the lights on all the time as you suggest. However, the TL's lights are the Xenon HID types, and cannot be seen from wide angles like conventional bulbs or DRLs.

jazz5060

I nominate accuraddict to be president of this forum,and to get rid of the snifflers,who can only complain about what they dont have and dont have enough sense to, enjoy what they got!

fsconsult

come on Jazz...lighten up man, you're too tense. Forums are not just for praising the car that u have, its a place where people can voice their dislikes (or preceived dislikes) as well as likes.

Imagine how boring this forum will be if all you heard was people praising the almighty TL.

I like to hear a balanced opinion of the car, whether it petty or real. Remember, what seems to be petty to one may not be petty to others. Everyone's different. We are not mindless drones you know.

nickpoore

I'm not different.
I'm the SAME.

(Sorry, had to get in my Monty reference for the week!)

iNteGraz92

whoever said they appreciated DRL's, i sure don't. usually DRL's are high beams run at a lower wattage. there are a lot of idiots driving around w/ cars w/ DRL and think "hey my highs are on during the day, why should i drive with them on at night." and they drive around unknowingly blinding everybody on the road.

iNteGraz92

HIDs has nothing to do w/ the beam. it's because the 04 TL uses a projector, like bmw's, audi's, and newer benzes.

Dubya

DRLs are standard halogen bulbs. Using your Xenon headlights all the time as faux DRLs is certainly doable, but the problem with that is that you will be dramatically reducing their life expectancy. Better to have dedicated DRLs with less expensive halogen bulbs for that.

And much as I hate to admit it, DRLs DO make you more visible in the daytime, no matter HOW far from the equator you live. More visible is more visible, plain and simple, just as a yellow car is statistically far less likely to get into an accident due to the highly visible spectral wavelength it reflects (though I sure wouldn't want a yellow car!).

The Canadian Federal Government spent a number of years studying this in exhaustive tests. I'll guess they know at least as much as the NHTSA about this subject.

Anything that makes others see you more readily is a good thing, IMHO, and for that reason, I'll take the signal mirrors too!

Jss1

I guess you have never tried to make a turn at dusk when everyone's lights should be on, and someone is on the road without theirs off so you barely see them. Fortunately it has been law here for so long the only time you run into this is a really old car or someone from the States "who doesn't think its time to turn them on". They aren't bright at all and I don't even notice them.

acuraddict

Thank you, I accept the nomination. My first act as president will be to create a support group for TL owners who cannot find contentment with their wonderful new cars. The group will be headed up by a leading clinical psychologist who will help these men (mostly engineers and techie types who just can't stop thinking they are "beta testing" the 2004 TL) to fill the psychic hunger that drives them to focus on what isn't there, rather than be happy with what is.

DNA

I assume you've already signed me up and will let me know when the first group session starts?

Contentment and finding faults aren't mutually exclusive, though. Who has the better relationship, the new couple who is thinks each other is perfect or the couple who has been with each other for a long time, knows each others faults, and are still in love?

I predict that those who insist that their new car is perfect and are annoyed by those who don't agree will trade in those cars the soonest. I never thought my previous car (an Integra) was perfect and I have had that 18 years.

automophile

When all of us snivelers band together, we can perhaps have greater influence on Acura for future models. When do the meeting start?

My reason for starting this thread was not to complain, but to voice frustration that such a fan-tastic car should be missing such obvious features.

My company does new product development, and we never make such obvious mistakes (LOL!).

neuronbob

I can't add to that. Well said.

HondaOnly

I think Acura probably decided against the turn signal lights on the mirror because the TL already had side marker lights. As cool as the mirror lights are, I think it would've been excessive to have them both.

A key like the one on the Accord would've been good, but one drawback is that it gets very hot after driving because of the chip inside the key. I have an Accord and sometimes I find the key too bulky to keep in my pocket, especially if I'm wearing jeans. The key and separate fob is easier to fold up, but the best would be what Audi/VW uses.

As far as autoheadlights are concerned, I'm glad Acura doesn't have these. I figure if you don't know when to turn your lights on or you're not paying attention to how dark it is, maybe you shouldn't be in the car in the first place. Sometimes I think cars are too convenient. Things autoheadlight, autolocking, and power seatbelts come to mind.

Dubya

Yeah, but the side markers don't blink for signaling, so that's an irrelevant argument.

wavshrdr

So why not change it? It should be simple to run a wire to the side markers and/or change the bulbs if need be. I did it on a VW I had. Looked really sweet when it was done.

Just for the record I do like integrated turnsignals in the mirrors and wish the TL had them. My Excursion and my Mercedes has them. MB did a really sweet job on them.

As for the DRL issue, I am glad it doesn't have them. That is one reason I plan on purchasing the car. But for those of you who think they are great to have and that they add safety, why not go one step further and have the "pulsating" kind that many motorcyclists add?

I am an avid motorcyclist (35+ years) and if you really want to get someone's attention put on of the headlight pulsing mechanisms. Just watch the frequency so you don't cause any epileptic seizures.

I do enjoy this thread as it makes me feel better about my intended purchase. If this is the most anyone can whine about are only these issues I should be really happy with mine when it arrives. Maybe by then some of these will be addressed.

-Tim

jshih57

I agree. Also, I think we should get Low washer fluid indicator. Again, why do Canadian models have it & we don't? My 00 Maxima has it as an option. The 04 Maxima SE is a cheaper car than the 04 TL, but has the following which the TL do NOT: 18" wheels, wider/lower profile tires, heated steering wheel, auto rear sun shade (which was on I30/I35 for several years), compass in auto dimming mirror, trip computer can give instantaneous readings, not just avg readings. Also bought one, except I really don't like the looks, especially the interior.