Want to ditch 03 325i...am i on crack?
03-05-2004, 08:15 PM
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Want to ditch 03 325i...am i on crack?
Hey people,
I am currently the confused owner of an '03 325i wagon (sport, premium, leather, 5 spd manual), up here in Toronto. I loaded this thing with (almost) every possible option a year and a bit ago and drove it out the door, and never seriously contemplated getting anything else.
NOW i read about the TL...and somehow something draws me to the Acura $$tealer for a test drive...and now I want one.
Am I crazy?
The dealer wants me to pony up at least CAD$6000 plus 15% tax to switch (bearing in mind we haven't seriously besun to negotiate). I'm seriously thinking about going back and getting into a hardcore negotiation session for an Anthracite 6MT. I'd think about Navi, except up in Canada you can have Navi or 6MT, but not both (6MT is called Dynamic package up here).
For those in TO, I went to Acura Woodbine.
Why?
Things I noticed that are better than my 3er:
- I paid CAD$2400 (!!!), or ~US1500, for my leather, and yet the TL's leather puts it to shame...mine must have come from the most malourished, dehydrated cows imaginable
- I got back in my car after the test drive, and my car felt like it had a lawnmower engine; the power of the TL was FANTASTIC
- my (optional) Harman Kardon stereo sounded crap after lsitening to the Acura demo disc
- the seats were more supple, and there was more room in the rear
- the TL's built-in Bluetooth capability is cool; it is available on newer 3's, but you a) have to pay $US500 for a dealer kit and b) have to either pay for installation or install it yourself (~3-4 hours). Lame.
- Led rear lights. Nice.
- Lovely gearbox; the 3's is also nice, but with longer throws; however, the 3 wagon is geared too short (nearly 4000rpm at 120kmh/75mph) whereas the TL seems to be just right
Things that aren;t so great:
- Holy torque steer...I know this topic has been discussed at length, but the steering wheel was writhing in my hands like crazy...although I was giving it the boot very deliberately (I wanted to compare it to my old Saab 9-5, which also did this, even with only 170hp!))
- Surprisingly small trunk, and the seats don't fold down
- No exterior trunk handle - my Saab 9-5 was like this, and it pissed me off a lot
- No side turn-signal repeaters; i know this is minor, and that there is a mod that can be done, but I'm not down with visiting Radio SHack and disassembling the fender liner when any European car has this as standard
- no free maintenance, and the dealers seem to be pretty low-rent (at least in TO)
- Ummmm...that's probably it
Now, let the comments begin....Canadian comments, rants, put-downs especially appreciated; if you have any tips about Toronto-area dealers, that would be fantastic...
I am currently the confused owner of an '03 325i wagon (sport, premium, leather, 5 spd manual), up here in Toronto. I loaded this thing with (almost) every possible option a year and a bit ago and drove it out the door, and never seriously contemplated getting anything else.
NOW i read about the TL...and somehow something draws me to the Acura $$tealer for a test drive...and now I want one.
Am I crazy?
The dealer wants me to pony up at least CAD$6000 plus 15% tax to switch (bearing in mind we haven't seriously besun to negotiate). I'm seriously thinking about going back and getting into a hardcore negotiation session for an Anthracite 6MT. I'd think about Navi, except up in Canada you can have Navi or 6MT, but not both (6MT is called Dynamic package up here).
For those in TO, I went to Acura Woodbine.
Why?
Things I noticed that are better than my 3er:
- I paid CAD$2400 (!!!), or ~US1500, for my leather, and yet the TL's leather puts it to shame...mine must have come from the most malourished, dehydrated cows imaginable
- I got back in my car after the test drive, and my car felt like it had a lawnmower engine; the power of the TL was FANTASTIC
- my (optional) Harman Kardon stereo sounded crap after lsitening to the Acura demo disc
- the seats were more supple, and there was more room in the rear
- the TL's built-in Bluetooth capability is cool; it is available on newer 3's, but you a) have to pay $US500 for a dealer kit and b) have to either pay for installation or install it yourself (~3-4 hours). Lame.
- Led rear lights. Nice.
- Lovely gearbox; the 3's is also nice, but with longer throws; however, the 3 wagon is geared too short (nearly 4000rpm at 120kmh/75mph) whereas the TL seems to be just right
Things that aren;t so great:
- Holy torque steer...I know this topic has been discussed at length, but the steering wheel was writhing in my hands like crazy...although I was giving it the boot very deliberately (I wanted to compare it to my old Saab 9-5, which also did this, even with only 170hp!))
- Surprisingly small trunk, and the seats don't fold down
- No exterior trunk handle - my Saab 9-5 was like this, and it pissed me off a lot
- No side turn-signal repeaters; i know this is minor, and that there is a mod that can be done, but I'm not down with visiting Radio SHack and disassembling the fender liner when any European car has this as standard
- no free maintenance, and the dealers seem to be pretty low-rent (at least in TO)
- Ummmm...that's probably it
Now, let the comments begin....Canadian comments, rants, put-downs especially appreciated; if you have any tips about Toronto-area dealers, that would be fantastic...
Must buy TL...:p
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03-05-2004, 10:10 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Umm, a wagon? What made you buy a wagon if you were lusting for a sport sedan? I have a 325cic and can tell you that you don't buy a 325 if you're looking for performance. It's fine for every day driving but passing on the highway isn't it's strong suit. As a former Acura and current BMW owner I don't fully agree with some of your criticisms - but hey, to each their own.
If you want a powerful sport sedan at an affordable price you can't go wrong with the TL. You probably paid about $45K USD for the BMW and the TL's about $35K USD. So if you're going to pay an additional $4,500 USD that means it will have cost you $14,500 USD to have driven the BMW for a little over a year. You might want to wait until your car's two to three years old so you don't have to take as big a depreciation hit.
Good luck.
If you want a powerful sport sedan at an affordable price you can't go wrong with the TL. You probably paid about $45K USD for the BMW and the TL's about $35K USD. So if you're going to pay an additional $4,500 USD that means it will have cost you $14,500 USD to have driven the BMW for a little over a year. You might want to wait until your car's two to three years old so you don't have to take as big a depreciation hit.
Good luck.
03-06-2004, 06:08 AM
#11
Senior Moderator
There are so many people who have posted about wanting a TL only a year (or in my case, almost two) after they bought their previous car. Just keep in mind your hit in depreciation. You really might want to wait. When I traded my old TL for the new TL, what I got for it was only a few hundred US$ more than what I owed on the loan, so I could handle it.
As for the cars themselves...the TL won't be as "tossable" as the 325. It's heavier. However, the TL wins on sheer power and straight line performance, and the handling, while definitely not "tossable", is more than adequate for a car of the TL's size and bulk. According to others on this site, much of this problem is fixed with a tire switch. The torque steer is not as bad in my 5AT as in the 6MT, it's easily controllable.
Overall, the TL is a major upgrade on the 325, so considering it is definitely not crazy. I agree with adam209's comment, though. If you had a 330, you'd have a MAJOR dilemma.
As for the cars themselves...the TL won't be as "tossable" as the 325. It's heavier. However, the TL wins on sheer power and straight line performance, and the handling, while definitely not "tossable", is more than adequate for a car of the TL's size and bulk. According to others on this site, much of this problem is fixed with a tire switch. The torque steer is not as bad in my 5AT as in the 6MT, it's easily controllable.
Overall, the TL is a major upgrade on the 325, so considering it is definitely not crazy. I agree with adam209's comment, though. If you had a 330, you'd have a MAJOR dilemma.
03-06-2004, 03:32 PM
#12
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okay, an update:
Went to TerraceGate Acura for comparison (and leverage) purposes, and got the following offer: CAD$3500+ 15% tax (~USD 2500) to change over. Still considering it. Maybe I should deal for the winter tire set as part of the deal; I found out yesterday that my current winter set won't fit the TL (bolt pattern is 5/120)
For the hell of it, I took another test drive, and marvelled at the gearbox and engine (again). Noticed that the seat-bottoms (squabs) are shorter than the 3, but it wasn't that big a deal. Salesman told me that the ACura DVD demo disc "wasn't available"....whatever.
Neuronbob: The TL's not quite as tossable, but as for weight, the wagon weighs ~70kg/150lbs more than the sedan, so it's the same weight as the TL or thereabouts; it's part of the reason the wagon has shorter gearing than the sedan. I found the TL's handling to be very sure-footed; the steering was a bit too light for my tastes, but it certainly isn't a deal breaker.
Anyhoo, going back to Woodbine on Wednesday for a chat with the sales manager Alan, we'll see what happens.
For those who suggested I wait and let the depreciation curve flatten out, I appreciate the warnings; however, I bought this car (325i) as a demo a year ago for about what the TL costs now, so my only real hit would be the $3500 (or whatever the final figure turns out to be). If I really had to eat US15k, I wouldn't even be looking twice....I don't sh*t money!! But thanks guys for the heads-up!
Went to TerraceGate Acura for comparison (and leverage) purposes, and got the following offer: CAD$3500+ 15% tax (~USD 2500) to change over. Still considering it. Maybe I should deal for the winter tire set as part of the deal; I found out yesterday that my current winter set won't fit the TL (bolt pattern is 5/120)
For the hell of it, I took another test drive, and marvelled at the gearbox and engine (again). Noticed that the seat-bottoms (squabs) are shorter than the 3, but it wasn't that big a deal. Salesman told me that the ACura DVD demo disc "wasn't available"....whatever.
Neuronbob: The TL's not quite as tossable, but as for weight, the wagon weighs ~70kg/150lbs more than the sedan, so it's the same weight as the TL or thereabouts; it's part of the reason the wagon has shorter gearing than the sedan. I found the TL's handling to be very sure-footed; the steering was a bit too light for my tastes, but it certainly isn't a deal breaker.
Anyhoo, going back to Woodbine on Wednesday for a chat with the sales manager Alan, we'll see what happens.
For those who suggested I wait and let the depreciation curve flatten out, I appreciate the warnings; however, I bought this car (325i) as a demo a year ago for about what the TL costs now, so my only real hit would be the $3500 (or whatever the final figure turns out to be). If I really had to eat US15k, I wouldn't even be looking twice....I don't sh*t money!! But thanks guys for the heads-up!
03-06-2004, 04:34 PM
#13
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"for my leather, and yet the TL's leather puts it to shame...mine must have come from the most malourished, dehydrated cows imaginable"
That's definitely true. 3-series leather is really tough like beef jerky.
That's definitely true. 3-series leather is really tough like beef jerky.
03-06-2004, 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by SitAndMeditate
"for my leather, and yet the TL's leather puts it to shame...mine must have come from the most malourished, dehydrated cows imaginable"
That's definitely true. 3-series leather is really tough like beef jerky.
"for my leather, and yet the TL's leather puts it to shame...mine must have come from the most malourished, dehydrated cows imaginable"
That's definitely true. 3-series leather is really tough like beef jerky.
03-06-2004, 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by adam209
really? the leather in mine isn't really that bad. maybe you guys got bad cows?
really? the leather in mine isn't really that bad. maybe you guys got bad cows?
03-06-2004, 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by SitAndMeditate
Nope, they're all like that. Compare the leather in the 3 to an old 5er, or the Napa leather in an M3. It should be nice and soft like in the TL, not tough and plasticy like the as_s end of a 50 year old cow. =)
Nope, they're all like that. Compare the leather in the 3 to an old 5er, or the Napa leather in an M3. It should be nice and soft like in the TL, not tough and plasticy like the as_s end of a 50 year old cow. =)
03-06-2004, 11:18 PM
#17
9.5+10.5 22m=Hella Flush
Dude I feel bad for you. All cars depreciate the most the first 2yrs and I almost bought a 325 4dr. I went to test drive one and was going to make a deal. Lucky I saw some new pics of the TL last summer (proto-type) and I loved how the car looks. So i decided to wait and see how the real deal looked and I loved it once I saw the real thing in OCt'03. I thought since the 3series is revamping the looks for 2006 and I don't want to spend more than 40k for a car that is going to look outdated. So that is why i went for the TL. For "270hp" you can't beat the price!!! Go for it if you got the cash to do it. Otherwise I would just keep the car for a few more yrs dude!!
03-07-2004, 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by adam209
did you treat your leather when you got it? maybe that's why mine is soft.
did you treat your leather when you got it? maybe that's why mine is soft.
03-07-2004, 12:36 AM
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I've got an '02 325ci and have been thinking about making a switch. I'm a big bimmer fan but for the money it's just so hard to beat the value of the TL. Haven't done a test drive yet but hoping to soon.
03-07-2004, 08:34 AM
#21
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Originally posted by TorontoTL
The Nappa leather is an upgrade leather in the 3 series and seems very nice. The standard leather you get when you get leather isn't great at all.
The Nappa leather is an upgrade leather in the 3 series and seems very nice. The standard leather you get when you get leather isn't great at all.
I actually had to ask a salesman if the seating in the 330 I test drove was real leather.
03-07-2004, 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by TorontoTL
The Nappa leather is an upgrade leather in the 3 series and seems very nice. The standard leather you get when you get leather isn't great at all.
The Nappa leather is an upgrade leather in the 3 series and seems very nice. The standard leather you get when you get leather isn't great at all.
Well, if i can get the changeover cost as low as possible, i'm going for it.
03-07-2004, 11:33 PM
#23
TL-SHAWD 6MT Rocks!
can you buy an Anthracite 6MT with Nav accross the border and drive it back to Canada?
what happens to people who move to Canada, can they take their 6MT-Nav cars with them ?
what happens to people who move to Canada, can they take their 6MT-Nav cars with them ?
03-08-2004, 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by NOX 3.2
can you buy an Anthracite 6MT with Nav accross the border and drive it back to Canada?
what happens to people who move to Canada, can they take their 6MT-Nav cars with them ?
can you buy an Anthracite 6MT with Nav accross the border and drive it back to Canada?
what happens to people who move to Canada, can they take their 6MT-Nav cars with them ?
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