VSA on 6MT?
02-13-2006, 08:19 PM
#1
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VSA on 6MT?
Hi Guys... I am not usually in the TL section, but thought this was the best spot to ask this question. In 2003 if you got the 6MT they did not come with VSA system. When I switched from an auto CL to a manual, I missed this feature.
I was told by someone the other day that the 3rd gen TLs (6 speed manual) do in fact have VSA. Can someone confirm this?
Thanks!
I was told by someone the other day that the 3rd gen TLs (6 speed manual) do in fact have VSA. Can someone confirm this?
Thanks!
02-13-2006, 08:42 PM
#3
Here's the excerpt from acuranews.com
Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
The TL is equipped with 4-channel VSA that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits, for example through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.
In the event of understeer (where the front tires lose grip), the system applies the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw (vehicle "rotation"), slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System and Engine Controller.
The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system applies the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.
An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.
The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.
A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.
The TL is equipped with 4-channel VSA that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits, for example through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.
In the event of understeer (where the front tires lose grip), the system applies the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw (vehicle "rotation"), slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System and Engine Controller.
The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system applies the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.
An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.
The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.
A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.
02-13-2006, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by massr1
why didnt the 6mt come with vsa?
Thanks for all the input guys!
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02-14-2006, 08:37 AM
#8
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One bad thing about VSA with the manual. If you are doing a little serious thing with first, second, and third gears (now I didn't say stop light racing, did I?), turn off the VSA. It will most definitely affect your forward acceleration.
02-14-2006, 09:16 AM
#9
While out playing in the snow, the vsa caused my 6MT to have a top speed of about 5 mph. The car would not go in the snow at all.
With it off, the car took off, I could spin both front wheels and power through almost anything.
VSA is one system I do not need or want.
I would ditch the whole thing if I could.
Its just another system to prevent stupid people from crashing their cars, like abs.
abs kills stopping distances in the snow, yes, you can still steer the car somewhat, but you cant stop worth a crap.
If you could lock the wheels up, they would push a pile of snow and the car would stop. With abs, the wheels will only allow as much braking as they can without locking up, which is almost zip in snow.
I do not need systems to drive the car for me, I dont need systems that shift my transmission, work my brakes for me, or control the power (vsa).
While those systems may help under some conditions, they hurt under others.
If I control things, I can adapt to the situation.
I used to love going out in the snow in an old car (front or rear wheel drive, no abs, no vsa) and sliding around turns, locking the wheels up, doing spins and doghnuts, sliding sideways, etc.
Practice and you can really control a car in the snow.
With the modern systems, you can often go to fast and overwhelm the systems when you do not expect it.
Brett
With it off, the car took off, I could spin both front wheels and power through almost anything.
VSA is one system I do not need or want.
I would ditch the whole thing if I could.
Its just another system to prevent stupid people from crashing their cars, like abs.
abs kills stopping distances in the snow, yes, you can still steer the car somewhat, but you cant stop worth a crap.
If you could lock the wheels up, they would push a pile of snow and the car would stop. With abs, the wheels will only allow as much braking as they can without locking up, which is almost zip in snow.
I do not need systems to drive the car for me, I dont need systems that shift my transmission, work my brakes for me, or control the power (vsa).
While those systems may help under some conditions, they hurt under others.
If I control things, I can adapt to the situation.
I used to love going out in the snow in an old car (front or rear wheel drive, no abs, no vsa) and sliding around turns, locking the wheels up, doing spins and doghnuts, sliding sideways, etc.
Practice and you can really control a car in the snow.
With the modern systems, you can often go to fast and overwhelm the systems when you do not expect it.
Brett
02-14-2006, 09:51 AM
#10
Registered Member
Originally Posted by Brettg
While out playing in the snow, the vsa caused my 6MT to have a top speed of about 5 mph. The car would not go in the snow at all.
With it off, the car took off, I could spin both front wheels and power through almost anything.
VSA is one system I do not need or want.
I would ditch the whole thing if I could.
Its just another system to prevent stupid people from crashing their cars, like abs.
abs kills stopping distances in the snow, yes, you can still steer the car somewhat, but you cant stop worth a crap.
If you could lock the wheels up, they would push a pile of snow and the car would stop. With abs, the wheels will only allow as much braking as they can without locking up, which is almost zip in snow.
I do not need systems to drive the car for me, I dont need systems that shift my transmission, work my brakes for me, or control the power (vsa).
While those systems may help under some conditions, they hurt under others.
If I control things, I can adapt to the situation.
I used to love going out in the snow in an old car (front or rear wheel drive, no abs, no vsa) and sliding around turns, locking the wheels up, doing spins and doghnuts, sliding sideways, etc.
Practice and you can really control a car in the snow.
With the modern systems, you can often go to fast and overwhelm the systems when you do not expect it.
Brett
With it off, the car took off, I could spin both front wheels and power through almost anything.
VSA is one system I do not need or want.
I would ditch the whole thing if I could.
Its just another system to prevent stupid people from crashing their cars, like abs.
abs kills stopping distances in the snow, yes, you can still steer the car somewhat, but you cant stop worth a crap.
If you could lock the wheels up, they would push a pile of snow and the car would stop. With abs, the wheels will only allow as much braking as they can without locking up, which is almost zip in snow.
I do not need systems to drive the car for me, I dont need systems that shift my transmission, work my brakes for me, or control the power (vsa).
While those systems may help under some conditions, they hurt under others.
If I control things, I can adapt to the situation.
I used to love going out in the snow in an old car (front or rear wheel drive, no abs, no vsa) and sliding around turns, locking the wheels up, doing spins and doghnuts, sliding sideways, etc.
Practice and you can really control a car in the snow.
With the modern systems, you can often go to fast and overwhelm the systems when you do not expect it.
Brett
But I confess that I do see an advantage with VSA - under normal driving conditions. In snow, I have advised my wife to turn it off if she finds that she's not getting anywhere. I don't drive my TL in the snow so this is not an issue with me.
As for ABS, it once kept me from t-boning some idiot who pulled out from a residential street in front of me in the snow. My car at the time was a 1994 Honda Accord EX.. not the best car.. I traded it two years later for a '96 Ford Contour, a much better match for me.
You make a good point of braking without ABS where the stopped tires will pile up snow. But I still say ABS has advantages in this department.
However, I'm pretty much like you in the I-don't-what-my-car-to-think-for-me-and-drive-for-me department. I'm perfectly capable of doing this myself.
02-14-2006, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
One bad thing about VSA with the manual. If you are doing a little serious thing with first, second, and third gears (now I didn't say stop light racing, did I?), turn off the VSA. It will most definitely affect your forward acceleration.
Have to agree with BrettG regarding external automation to control your car for you. And, ABS stopping distances are longer even on dry pavement. It has been proven that the fastest way to stop is to lock up the wheels as soon as possible.
Having said all that, VSA did save my ass once... but I probably would not have gotten into trouble if I had a manual transmission. Sometimes I just want to drop a gear on a corner without flooring it.
02-14-2006, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by goredcar
Who in the heck would want to race from a stop light? I have my mods just to increase fuel efficiency
Have to agree with BrettG regarding external automation to control your car for you. And, ABS stopping distances are longer even on dry pavement. It has been proven that the fastest way to stop is to lock up the wheels as soon as possible.
Having said all that, VSA did save my ass once... but I probably would not have gotten into trouble if I had a manual transmission. Sometimes I just want to drop a gear on a corner without flooring it.
Have to agree with BrettG regarding external automation to control your car for you. And, ABS stopping distances are longer even on dry pavement. It has been proven that the fastest way to stop is to lock up the wheels as soon as possible.
Having said all that, VSA did save my ass once... but I probably would not have gotten into trouble if I had a manual transmission. Sometimes I just want to drop a gear on a corner without flooring it.
For the record, this is something I almost never do (rare indeed and only when it's a safe bet).
02-14-2006, 11:40 AM
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I make sure to shut off the VSA 99% of the time when I'm driving, I feel more in control and IMHO, the VSA should have been an option rather than a feature since I think it was designed with automatics in mind. I control the car with the shifter and don't rely on the VSA.
The wife's Odyssey has a VSA button and she swears by it, personally I like the little yellow light "on" on my dash....
The wife's Odyssey has a VSA button and she swears by it, personally I like the little yellow light "on" on my dash....
02-14-2006, 12:13 PM
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Yep, I got that SoutherBoy... that's my story too and I'm sticking to it!
Seriously though, I rarely initiate "action", but for some reason people seem to want to race me. Often I decline and let them go racing off... sometimes though when I see a modified car, and it looks like it might be close, it is pretty tempting. Usually though, with my luck, my wife will be in the car when I see a perfect match up
[QUOTE=SouthernBoy]You'll notice I said, "now I didn't say stop light racing, did I". That means I didn't say that.
Seriously though, I rarely initiate "action", but for some reason people seem to want to race me. Often I decline and let them go racing off... sometimes though when I see a modified car, and it looks like it might be close, it is pretty tempting. Usually though, with my luck, my wife will be in the car when I see a perfect match up
[QUOTE=SouthernBoy]You'll notice I said, "now I didn't say stop light racing, did I". That means I didn't say that.
02-14-2006, 12:19 PM
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Nice pics of your TL... I love the red intake! I used to have one on my last car, but had to settle for a grey one on my current ride. Any other mods? Being an interloper on your TL forum, I don't know that much about your 3rd gen cars (I have a 2nd gen CLS-6). I have heard that the 3rd gen TL's cant add headers because of the way the exhaust manifolds are cast into ther engine... if that true?
Originally Posted by HEK
I make sure to shut off the VSA 99% of the time when I'm driving, I feel more in control and IMHO, the VSA should have been an option rather than a feature since I think it was designed with automatics in mind. I control the car with the shifter and don't rely on the VSA.
The wife's Odyssey has a VSA button and she swears by it, personally I like the little yellow light "on" on my dash....
The wife's Odyssey has a VSA button and she swears by it, personally I like the little yellow light "on" on my dash....
02-14-2006, 04:43 PM
#16
Keep Right Except to Pass
Originally Posted by kennyc
he is talking about 2g TL, I believe all 3g TL have VSA.
02-14-2006, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 1995hoo
I thought the third generation TL was the first time the TL has been available with a manual transmission, based on what I read in the magazines. Am I mistaken? (I know certain versions of the CL had the manual available, originally just the ones with the 2.2-litre engine, and later the Type-S shortly before the CL was dropped.)
02-14-2006, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by goredcar
Nice pics of your TL... I love the red intake! I used to have one on my last car, but had to settle for a grey one on my current ride. Any other mods? Being an interloper on your TL forum, I don't know that much about your 3rd gen cars (I have a 2nd gen CLS-6). I have heard that the 3rd gen TL's cant add headers because of the way the exhaust manifolds are cast into ther engine... if that true?
You're right about the headers...some guys have done the exhaust on the board, from Magnaflow to removing the resonators...
02-14-2006, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HEK
Thanks for the compliments, I have no plans on doing any other mods to the TL, maybe a short shifter, but besides that I think the GM Synthetic tranny fluid change made the car more fun to drive. If I lived in FL or CA, I would have most definitively done a A-Spec drop, but as it is here in MA when it snows it snows and when I get home and have to pull in my driveway as it is I have to plow my way in.
You're right about the headers...some guys have done the exhaust on the board, from Magnaflow to removing the resonators...
You're right about the headers...some guys have done the exhaust on the board, from Magnaflow to removing the resonators...
02-14-2006, 07:42 PM
#20
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[QUOTE=goredcar]Yep, I got that SoutherBoy... that's my story too and I'm sticking to it!
Seriously though, I rarely initiate "action", but for some reason people seem to want to race me. Often I decline and let them go racing off... sometimes though when I see a modified car, and it looks like it might be close, it is pretty tempting. Usually though, with my luck, my wife will be in the car when I see a perfect match up
We all probably have little things that other drivers do that pisses us off. One of my pet peeves is when someone (I watch this in my mirror) approaches the lane I'm in, then switches to the other lane, the road being such that the two lanes merge into one about 50 - 75 yards past the light. That gets to me. So I will launch hard and force them to fall in behind me.
Mind you, I don't do this every time, but frequently when it's obvious to me that they knew exactly what they were doing an why.
Seriously though, I rarely initiate "action", but for some reason people seem to want to race me. Often I decline and let them go racing off... sometimes though when I see a modified car, and it looks like it might be close, it is pretty tempting. Usually though, with my luck, my wife will be in the car when I see a perfect match up
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
You'll notice I said, "now I didn't say stop light racing, did I". That means I didn't say that.
Mind you, I don't do this every time, but frequently when it's obvious to me that they knew exactly what they were doing an why.
02-14-2006, 09:32 PM
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Yep, the lane merging thing is just plain a lack of courtesy... no actually it more than that, it's being a total ass. I actually do the same thing, but I usually do not launch so hard so that it is easy for them to fall in behind Evil, huh?
What really makes me mad is when I am in the fast lane on the freeway... and there is nowhere to go, but some jackass comes screaming up behind me, tailgating, and pissed at me when they can see that there is no where to go. When traffic clears and the dofus holding up tarffic moves over I drop to 3rd and watch the idiot get smaller in my mirror.
Evil, huh?What really makes me mad is when I am in the fast lane on the freeway... and there is nowhere to go, but some jackass comes screaming up behind me, tailgating, and pissed at me when they can see that there is no where to go. When traffic clears and the dofus holding up tarffic moves over I drop to 3rd and watch the idiot get smaller in my mirror.
02-15-2006, 08:12 AM
#22
Registered Member
Originally Posted by goredcar
Yep, the lane merging thing is just plain a lack of courtesy... no actually it more than that, it's being a total ass. I actually do the same thing, but I usually do not launch so hard so that it is easy for them to fall in behind Evil, huh?
What really makes me mad is when I am in the fast lane on the freeway... and there is nowhere to go, but some jackass comes screaming up behind me, tailgating, and pissed at me when they can see that there is no where to go. When traffic clears and the dofus holding up tarffic moves over I drop to 3rd and watch the idiot get smaller in my mirror.
Evil, huh?What really makes me mad is when I am in the fast lane on the freeway... and there is nowhere to go, but some jackass comes screaming up behind me, tailgating, and pissed at me when they can see that there is no where to go. When traffic clears and the dofus holding up tarffic moves over I drop to 3rd and watch the idiot get smaller in my mirror.
Other peeves for me are people who do not stop for stop signs (called running stops), people who run red lights, and people who do not use turn signals for turns or lane changes. All of these are illegal in Virginia, but I've even seen cops do them.
Since most of the time I'm armed, I try not to percipitate any traffic altercations or problems.. I perfer to conduct myself on a higher plane when armed. So does the law.
02-15-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by goredcar
I have never heard about the GM Tranny fluid as an option. Can you tell me more about this... and how does it help? When it is cold I sometimes get a little "crunch" on the 1-2 shift. I have been told that this is normal, and sometimes also occurs on the 3-4, though I have never noticed that.
click here
02-15-2006, 09:35 AM
#24
goredcar, here's another thread on the same subject and includes pix for DIY and several others for you to read:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114774
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/tinkering-star-125774/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120619
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/voltage-3-2-cls-119721/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114774
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/tinkering-star-125774/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120619
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/voltage-3-2-cls-119721/
02-15-2006, 02:16 PM
#25
Safety Car
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
Yep, I agree. Years ago, when someone would tailgate me, I downshift to a lower gear and hit the brakes hard for an instant and at the same going full throttle. This would cause the car behind me to have a little heartache. I stopped doing that a long time ago because it's a good way to get rearended... in other words, it's not worth it.
Other peeves for me are people who do not stop for stop signs (called running stops), people who run red lights, and people who do not use turn signals for turns or lane changes. All of these are illegal in Virginia, but I've even seen cops do them.
Since most of the time I'm armed, I try not to percipitate any traffic altercations or problems.. I perfer to conduct myself on a higher plane when armed. So does the law.
Other peeves for me are people who do not stop for stop signs (called running stops), people who run red lights, and people who do not use turn signals for turns or lane changes. All of these are illegal in Virginia, but I've even seen cops do them.
Since most of the time I'm armed, I try not to percipitate any traffic altercations or problems.. I perfer to conduct myself on a higher plane when armed. So does the law.
We have the same problem with people running red lights and stop signs here too. What is even dumber is when you stop completely for a stop sign, the people behind you get mad?
People run red lights here all the time too, especially when they are making a left turn trying to beat the light. Some are so brazen as to turn eventhough there light is red and people have already started to go. That's how I got in an accident a couple of years ago, a lady ran the light and I hit her.
02-15-2006, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawhyen51
goredcar, here's another thread on the same subject and includes pix for DIY and several others for you to read:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114774
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125774
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120619
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119721
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114774
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125774
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120619
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119721
02-15-2006, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HEK
Here is some good reading on the GM stuff, trust me it makes a World of difference in shifting...
click here
click here
02-16-2006, 07:46 AM
#28
Registered Member
Originally Posted by goredcar
Thanks for the link. I can hardly wait to try this!
For the record, I took my time and made sure everything was done right (used a torque wrench, new crush washers, leveled the car properly), and it took me an hour and a half. Really, it's an hour job at best. This is the easiest car I ever owned to do a manual transmission fluid change.
Also, you do not need to remove the battery. I did separate the top part of the air cleaner housing from the bottom and just moved it to the side (towards the windshield) to better get to the fill hole. But it is a piece of cake, really.
02-16-2006, 08:05 AM
#29
It takes me well under 1/2 hour, I put a hose on a funnel and dont have to remove anything. I put a swivel adaptor on a long extention to remove the fill plug.
We have had the gm stuff in for the last 4500 miles and its still working.
Zero shift problems.
Brett
We have had the gm stuff in for the last 4500 miles and its still working.
Zero shift problems.
Brett
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