TL n Sin City

This just in......


The Western Regional Rep for Acura has admitted before the Better Business Bureau and an Arbitrator that there is a known vibration problem on 04 & 05 TLs. Acura has attempted more than one "fix" to the problem but has so far been unsuccessful. They are still working on a fix, but do not know how long it will be before they find one.

caball88

this is for western regional only? what about all us east coast fellas.

rets

I think this is good news.

We'd suspect all Acura Reps would say the same thing and respond with the similar answer if they have to face this kind of situation in front of BBB.

Phill11204

what kind of vibration problem is it?

MrGQDieselNY

Keep us updated!

miiipilot

Thanks for the update.

Does anyone have a link to the actual report or conversation???

I am taking my car in for a few minor issues...The vibration being one of them.
When I first scheduled an appointment for my A1 service, and those other minor issues, the service guy said, "We can align the car and that will solve the problem."

My car only has 5500 miles on it in 4 months. I should not need an alignment yet.

When did you guys have an alignment done?

This report would be a great item to have.

Thanks

ne-fl-tl

TLnSC

What kind of solution were you looking for (repair/replace/repurchase)?

TBone2004

Lets all be more specific.... what vibration? The flat spot on a cold morning at exactly 60mph?


Or is there another vibration? I just get the one from the tires - as it goes away below and over 6o mph or when the tires are warm - whichever occurs first.

Other vibration than that I do not know of.

PhilB

I second the request for documentation of this. I think it would be a very powerful tool for owners taking the car into a dealer if we had a document with Acura's name on it stating there is an issue bigger than alignment or unbalanced wheels.

-phil

willz822

My vibration is not the flatspotting problem. It's a vibration I feel when idling. I can feel it through the steering wheel and floorboard. Only a minor one so far, not that annoying yet.

cM3go

Driveline vibration, if you do a search you'll find a bunch of threads on it

TBone2004

But if this guy is feeling it while idling - how can it be drivetrain?

Nodoze2004

So I assume this means you are well on your way to a new car?? Lemon Law?

need4spd

TLnSC - that is exactly the reason they did not swap my car, and gave me cash back instead.

It is very sad that they can not find a solution!

Good luck!

Scott GN231

The drivetrain is still at work while idling. Just one example, but if the motor is not balanced properly you can experience wicked vibration even when not rolling.

It is interesting though, as an idle vibration would take many other complicatiions out of the mix-- surprised they can't find it. Hopefully your car will find its way to some Acura engineers for them to diagnose.

Thanks for the report-- as others have noted any more information would be much appreciated.

-Scott

JDM5lugHatch

I am now experiencing the vibration on my '05 anywhere from 50+mph. It doesn't go away and its not intermittent and it does not vary according to the RPM's. I also have the Michelins. I did not have this problem until I did some spirited driving on a back road that was rough no potholes though just rough. Taking it in monday for that and to get my A-spec kit install completed.

dgracer

Sounds like you tossed a wheel weight.

JDM5lugHatch

Thats the first thing I thought too but they are all there! I even mentioned that to my service writer that they may just need to be rebalanced. I might swing by my friends shop and have him rebalance them tonight if he can. We shall see if that fixes it or not. I also thought about rotating the tires to see if that makes a difference too. You won't notice an out of balance wheel in the rear like you do in the front.

Legend2TL

Did Acura of North America refund all of your initial purchase price?

Lore

They probably refunded all but a calculated dollar amount for "usage" of the car since the problem was reported.

Road Rage

Can someone please explain to me that if this is indeed pandemic to all the 3G TL's, why doesn't my car do it? Is it perhaps that my physiogonomy acts as a precisely inverse harmonic offset?

Logic is my business, and since nothing I have seen on the site indicates that every TL has this problem, any statement by anyone (Acura rep, George Bush, or Barney Rubble) who says that "there is a known vibration problem...." is obviously mistaken - unless that sentence is qualified with the word "some".

If I am wrong in my thinking, then perhaps those of you who do not have "the vibe" can explain it to me.

There are also plenty of vibrations in any car - those of you with "it", is there an agreed upon definition (who, what, where, when)?

I get some flat spotting when the tires are very cold, and it has been sitting for several days. I get the same thing in my S2000's RE050's.

need4spd

Yes, 100% I was only into the car for the interest on the loan, that's it.

RoadRage, I am sorry that you cannot understand the problems that people are having with their TL. I have had many cars, and know vibrations, what should and should not be, but the TL has some issues that should not be, and even the regionals are agreeing (in the case of the BBB that started this post, and some others I have read about). Plus they bought my car back, that should tell you something.

Regarding your question about vibrations, as far as I can tell from reading all of the posts, there are 4 types (I have written about 3 before you came to the board:

1. Cold Tire flat spotting after 6-8 hours in sub-50F temps (NOT for a few days, just hours, so every day it happens).
2. 1500rpm vibration and droning sound (occurs slightly at 30-35mph and again, but more pronounced at 50-60mph). Typically happened when just maintaining speed, or at slight acceleration. Depending on your driving conditions/commute it can be more evident to some other than others - AT only
3. Vibration at idle - AT only I believe
4. Above 60mph - Mostly what I can tell is a tire balance issue, but for some, it is not consistent (some days there, some days not, and then even if you slow down and speed up it goes away).

Personally I had numbers 1, 2, and 4, but it was the second that resulted in the buy back. I have been relatively silent on the buy back, but seeing no fix to the issue and too many complaints, I have been starting to talk about it, like I had once PM'd you about.

It would be nice if everyone explained specifically which vibration they had so we could keep the fixes (if any) straight??

JDM5lugHatch

Where in VA are you? I will let you drive mine to see the vibration we all speak of. However I believe mine to just be a tire/balance problem. Thats what I am hoping at least. My friend is going to balance them tomorrow real quick.

05TLTony

no vibration here either.

Lore

I've also never experienced the vibration (But I do have a bad tire pull!). I've always wondered what this driveline vibration is supposed to feel like. Maybe I do have it but it's so subtle that I haven't really noticed it. Someone I asked a few months ago described the entire car vibrating - so much that you can even feel it where your feet are.

Is this really the case?

need4spd

yes it was, at least for 1, 2 and 4.

PARK EX

need4spd,

I'm having the same issues you had. Mine are mostly #2- initially at 40-45, then 60mph, and lately 80mph, and issue #4. It's been in service for the vibration 6 times now. The dealership actually swapped my wheels and tires with new ones and it still does it. I have the factory 18in wheels with michelin pilots. I'm currently going thru the lemon law. I was wondering which route you went through with your buy back? I'd appreciate any feedback you can provide me, if you are allowed to disclose anything.

Thanks

need4spd

Park Ex, check your PM

myrwon

bought my '05 WDP/AT on 11/10. To-date, I only have 571miles on it. I also have these vibrations that everyone seems to be mentioning. (1,2,4). When I back out of the driveway and place it drive and pull away, I notice a big vibration on the steering wheel & at my feet for the first 10-30 feet or so, then it goes away. WTF....

Than I have the droning sound...very annoying. It's sounds like when your driving a manual transmission in the wrong gear and you give it gas....DROOOOOONNN..so you drop the gear and sounds goes away. Next thing is to get my tranny checked.

Today I picked up the car from service regarding #4 vibration. All they did was rebalance and rotate tires. Made no difference. needs to be readdressed.


from the sounds of it, there doesn't seem to be a fix to these vibrations problems, YET!!!!

need4spd

myrwon,

Sounds like the same issues from a year ago.

Multiple rebalancing including road force balancing by Hunter, never corrected number 4.

As for your discription of being in the wrong gear in a manual, sounds just like the same issue (and originally described as engine lugging), yes, puting it in SS mode and droping to a lower gear (higher revs) makes it go away.

As for the first 10-30 feet, maybe that is flatspotting, but for most people it was more like the first 10 miles or so.

vinster

I go home from work everday through a tunnel that was just newly resurfaced and onto a parkway also paved smooth. Feels like my tires are badly unbalanced.
Just replaced them two weeks ago. Each and evertime this shake or vibration occurs involves being in 5th gear, 1500 RPMS and 45MPH. This happens everyday to me when ever these three factors are involved. Other than that no vibration at any other level on the car.

JDM5lugHatch

My Vibration = 2 Bent rims up front. I haven't hit any potholes at all. This happened after a spirited drive on a bumpy back road but no potholes. One is obvious it's bent as the inside lip is bent and well the other is just out of round.

Maybe the cast on the wheels are bad causing the vibration? If you know anyone that can check the balance of the wheels on your car do it. My friend works at a specialty rim shop and he put them on the machine without the hood and you could see the rims were bent

Ken7

Mine started as the weather got colder. I just came back from a business trip and drove the car for the first time in 5 days.....the vibration was very bad for the first several miles. It does take time for the vibration to go away. At one point I thought that when I took my foot off the gas, the vibration would go away. I was wrong, it doesn't. This is not good!

sftroy

So, here is another unhappy person with a vibrating, whining and droning 04TL. I've filed a case with BBB and my arbitration hearing is on Wed 12/8 - if you have any advice/suggestions/comments, I'd appreciate them. Here are my details:

- puchased my 04 TL in 11/03
- in service 10 times for a total of 34 days
- I'm on my third set of tires, which have been balanced 3 times and realigned once.
- I had the flatspotting problem with the early BS EL42s. Replaced with reformulated EL42s by Acura. These were replaced by BS with Turanza LS-Zs.
- I still experience vibrations at speeds of 60+. Acura claims this is a "normal characteristic" of the 04TL with OEM tires. My tires are no longer OEM and my car still vibrates.
- Bridgestone agreed my car vibrates and agreed to replace my EL42s - I upgraded to the LS-Z on my own dime.
- There is a whining sound in my tranny - it started in ~May and I reported it to Acura Cust Svc. We agreed to have it looked at when the tranny recall work was to be done. My servicing dealer and the Acura DSM state that the sound is a normal characteristic of my model/year. The noise is getting worse and the Acura Customer Service said there is nothing they can do since service and the DSM said its a normal sound. The whine is high-pitched and heard when I decelerate and now I can hear it when accelerating.
- I have the drone sound when the car is at 15-18K RPMs mostly in 5th gear but also now at lower gears.
- My headliner has been worked on twice - it now droops in the center behind the moonroof. A TSB has been issued on this but my dealer at the time was unaware of this.
- Other issues experienced: rattles, squeaks, replaced radio, seat memory failure, wobbly windshield wipers, missing carpet anchor bolts . . .

Acura Customer Service has been a total disaster. They don't return phone calls, they are rude and will not escalate issues for a manager to handle directly. I left two messages for someone named "Julie" who I was told was the manager, but she never called me. Instead, I get "Bob" who is a jerk and doesn't follow thru on things - he actually accused me of saying that my service manager is a liar. I've been very, very patient with Acura - I've missed lots of work time and Saturdays taking my car to the dealer, I've gone on multiple test drives, had to make so many phone calls and all for not. I have a POS car that vibrates, whines and drones that I have to drive everyday during my hour long commute. I didn't pay $34K for all of this.

The funny (or not so funny thing) about this is that I was the unlucky owner of a 03 V6 Accord Cpe which, it just so happens, had similar whining sounds just prior to tranny failure. This is after Honda Cust Svc determined that the whining sound was normal - the very next day, my tranny failed on the freeway in 5th gear. I "upgraded" the Accord, after they "fixed" my tranny by installing a refurbished tranny, to the Acura and now I'm going thru another year of problems. Two Acura dealers assured me that the 04 TL was totally new and had a redesigned tranny.

I've been an Acura/Honda fan for a long time, and my TL is my fourth new Acura/Honda that I've purchased. I've spent over $100K with Honda Corp and I'm surprised at the way I've been treated and shocked to see that others are going thru the same thing.

Ok, enough of my rant. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any comments you may have.

- sftroy

Donte99TL

I had the tire flat spotting but when I got new rims that took care of that.

I will have to look into these other vibrations that you are talking about. I haven't noticed them in my car but I don't pay much attention to stuff like that I guess.

If there is some one in San Diego area that has these vibration issues I would like to meet. I would like to have you show me these issues. Then we can compare my car to yours so I have a better understanding of it.

need4spd

You had cold flat spoting of the tire.

See my other thread on this for information on the cause:


The Truth About Flat Spoting Tires - Tire forum

need4spd

sftroy -

I would bring with you all the posts on the vibration issues with the TL from this site and vtec.net, and those who have gotten a buy back on the TL.

Search the posts and you will find there are others besides me that have posted about it.

Best of luck and stay calm, prove your point with data, and not by yelling.

You may want to allow people to send you PM's (private messages) and you may get more info.

JohnDoe2

What yelling? Sftroy's post was calm, rational and factual.

THIS IS YELLING!

need4spd

You missunderstood, I was saying not to yell at his BBB arbitration meeting this week. It will be easy to get pretty worked up at the hearing.

chas083

I had the same EL 42 issue. Replaced with Conti Extreme Contact. Still flatspotted. I was told the Turanza LS would do the same. Dealer replaced with Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss. Perfectly smooth for over 17000 miles.