Costco

Damn sorry to hear. I know how you feel, trust me..... but you put in so much work on your car, it hurts.

TlsNavi03

iTrader: (1)

Yours and your g/fs health is the important part here, but when you put so much thought, work, and dedication into that car, it makes it a little more.. Its like a big hobby ( for lack of a better term)

The emotion is definately understood. I felt the same when I smacked up my Galant, and it was almost stock, but it was mine.

Things will work out!!

dragonlord

DAMN BRO! Sorry to see her that way. Just thankful the you and your girl are fine. Let's lay to rest that beautiful girl and DO get another NBP! We cannot lose you to the light side!

JD TL-S

iTrader: (1)

Very sorry to hear this. You had one of the HOTTEST TL's on this Forum

Good luck with the insurance. I hope your back and necks are OK.

Hope to see you with another awesome set-up like Blackura soon

Evader

Allon, I know exactly what you mean by it being more than just a car. I drive120 miles a day in her and she feels like one of the family. A prius or a saturn is just a car...the tl-s just a car? hardly. Look on the bright side, atleast someone from the tow shop didn't steal your girls atm card and go to a bunch of mexican supermarkets and the liquor store.. $600 later they are going to be prosecuted..... Idiots....

Here are the pictures of my recent accident which I just posted to my thread:









WTF did the Tow company do to my wheel?

94eg!

Timmahh,

Here is the information that you are looking for:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakekits.shtml

ABS effectiveness does rely directly on the computers ability to predict the torque vs pressure being generated by the caliper/rotor combo, as well as how much the brake system expands under such pressure. If you change these values, the computers per-programed algorithms won't match rendering the ABS system slow or ineffective...

PS: I would not trust a single word that Excellerate is typing just for the simple fact that the guys opinion is completely biased. He sells these kits on a daily basis and even did the install on the vehicle in question. Besides, with ABS there is no learning curve for a braking system. If it functions properly, all you need to know is the "stab-n-steer" method. Simply apply the brakes as hard as you want, and then steer to avoid an oncoming hazard. There's no "getting used to the amazing stopping power of my new brakes to allow my ABS to function properly" or any corny BS like that. It's simply absurd...

Now weather or not the BBK is at fault is completely up to the insurance investigation. But keep in mind that we will never truly know EXACTLY what happened...

timmahh

That is a fantastic write up and answered all of my questions in regards to BBKs effect on factory control systems. Very nice find thank you!

Blackura.. any insurance updates?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

not yet. the car is getting looked @ today or tomorrow. As of right now, insurance wont let me take the brakes off the car..... i have to keep collecting my stuff...i want everything back that they arent going to pay me for.

i will keep you posted.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

some day time shots for you guys

johnny--2k

oh man is that painful......Damn.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Wow. That's a bold statement to make about someone you don't know, but I guess that's the internet. Everyone is always tough and assertive behind a computer. I happen to be a very honest person and I pride myself on being honest with my customers and trustworthy. My sales of ROTORA products have nothing to do with any of my statements, and no I don't sell BBK's daily. If I did I would be sitting at home relaxing instead of being maligned on the web. My customer's welfare and satisfaction are most important to me. If there is something wrong with ROTORA's BBK, which I doubt but it's possible, then call up ROTORA and talk to them. However, on our side, the installation went fine and we drove the car for 15 minutes before giving it to the customer. And Allon drove it 200 miles before this happened.

Just a side note, Stoptech's BBK is a 328MM disc w/ 4 pot caliper and ROTORA's is a 330MM disc w/ 4 pot caliper. The difference in overall piston size is a few percent. I can get technical and find out exactly but if ROTORA's kit were to be the problem, then wouldn't Stoptech's have the same issue?

Also no one claimed for there to be a learning curve with ABS. There is a slight learning curve with BBK's, not ABS, b/c you are dealing with more leverage than before. Before you point fingers, which you have done before, maybe you should consider that one, the car is cursed, two, he had two master cylinder replacements since he had the car, three, he had noises and issues with the stock brakes, and four there are dozens of 3rd gen TL members running this exact BBK on their car and yet their ABS works. I find that interesting.

ACCURATEin

I've got 56,000 miles on this same Rotora 4piston brake setup. The car is still in one piece.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

I just saw the daytime pictures... jesus, the engine looks to be finished as well

but jesus your rims are showing off they are mint

timmahh

Well size of the rotor and number of pistons on the caliper could be the exact same but if the pressure required to operate the caliper is different you might run into problems. The STOPTECH systems may be designed with internal differences that you cannot see that make them operate internally like the factory setup.

You're still saying the learning curve thing.. there shouldn't a learning curve.

Factory:
You slam on the brakes. The vehicle immediately starts to slow at a pre-defined rate that the ABS system is expecting to see and will compensate for when one or more wheels exceeds the factory threshold.

BBK:
You slam on the brakes. The increased braking force immediately starts to slow the car down at a faster rate than the system is programmed for; the ABS system is reading the data and saying WTF why is this wheel stopping so fast this isn't right, I need to do something about it.

That's what causes the f**king problem; the increase in stopping force sends info to the car computers and it starts to freak out. That's ABS alone - now add on EBD, VSA, and TCS and you've got four systems that are all depending on pre-programmed factory data to make the decisions as to what action is performed. The TL has lateral g-force sensors and yaw sensors to provide input so that at a factory determined value a certain action is performed. If the bigger brakes cause these sensors to send abnormal or exceptionally high values to the system you're going to run into problems.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

get a tl-s... stay away from black... maybe you can your next car a Redcura lol

My history with Geico
3/27/07 - Accident 350z 630am
3/28/07 - Declared a Total Loss 10am
4/13/07 - $18,500 (minus deductible) received in the mail

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I think I am going to step away from this thread b/c there is so much speculation and theories flying around it is absurd. I guess as always real life experience and a company that puts all sorts of time and $ into R&D mean nothing. It is the reading of an article on the internet that makes you an engineer and a source of truth.

godfather2

I THINK WE NEED TO CHILL A BIT AND STOP BLAMING/BASHING JOSH AT EXCELERATE PERFORMANCE. HE'S BEEN NOTHING BUT HELPFUL IN ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS DAILY AND PROVIDING THE FORUM WITH TOP NOTCH SALES AND SERVICE. IF THE ACCIDENT WERE HIS FAULT (which blackura_ny says it's not) THEN DON'T YOU SUPPOSE HE'D BE HIDING IN SOME CORNER INSTEAD SHEDDING SOME RELEVANT LIGHT AND INFO OF THE SUBJECT AT HAND?

TRUE THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA BASH SOMEONE DIRECTLY, PM THEM INSTEAD OF CARRYING OUT YOUR GRIEVANCES IN THE OPEN

godfather2

anyways, back on topic now: BLACKURA_NY, why won't your insurance replace your aftermarket parts? refer back to my post on page 3 for details on how state farm replaced all of mine. also, what insurance do you have?

oh, EXCELERATE please don't exit this thread. you're one of the few that digs up the info/details/specifics we require

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

Specualtion leads to what conspiracy, for christ sake, Blackura's got full coverage and NEW YORK CITY IS NO FAULT INSURANCE

so to be NYC talker- It aint nobody fault

timmahh

I have not pointed a finger at you Excelerate; like most of the people reading this thread we are curious to find out exactly what the cause of the accident was. I think everything I said in my last post was legitimate. If the design of the Rotora system was not the cause of this then fine, that means it's compatible with the TL and no one needs to worry about it. If the Rotora system is the cause then there's going to be dozens of people as you say who are going to start worrying about their brakes.

In the end we are trying to figure out what caused the problem; so that the next post of an accident doesn't involve a dead person because of a BBK incompatability issue. I completely understand why you find this offensive and think that everyone is accousing you - you are the installer so you're going to take every response on this thread to heart. If the setup was done according to the Rotora instructions and nothing was skipped or done half ass then you have nothing to worry about. The cause of the accident will land on two things; 1) factory defects or 2) the Rotora system.


anywho ill try my best to remain an observer in this thread.

Again, sorry blackura

aznbenz07

Shit man, I was just saying how smooth it looked at HIN. First time I saw it (and u) in person. Do u have the pics we took together? Good luck with all the insurance stuff.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

sorry to see this man. if you need a hand pulling parts, i have a bunch of tools and a pickup that would make it go real fast.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

^This why I love this forum! Good luck BLACKURA_NY.

ililillilillilil

Your Bad Luck Will Soon Be A Blessing In Disguise.
I Hope Your Burns Heal Soon. Ouch!

Hardtimes

i guess i am a little late to the condolence party, but i still wanted to tell you i hate it this happened. your ride was always one of my favorites...

ayethetiense

holie shit, did nobody see my post on page 4?

let the insurance company do their thing and see what the results are.

the point of a BBK is to have more power. Yes, the ABS system cant get used to it, you cant expect a BBK to perform like a stock brake setup, so the ABS wont work as effectively as it would with a stock setup but it will still work.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

WOW I just caught up to this thread, I am in shock!! As everyone said, your car was one of the ones I really admired on this forum, it's hard to believe it's gone! And I thought I was going through a bad year of luck!! I won't complain anymore!

Man, I CANNOT look at those pics for another second, I get that pins and needles feeling! OUCH! I feel for ya man, it really, really sucks.

I know you feel lucky and shaken at the same time. Take care of that arm as you get over this. I hope the burns are not bad, I can see in the pic you have it wrapped up. Good luck to you and we can't wait to see you in that badass Type-S soon!

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

thats again for all the input. and ive said it MANY times, and will say again..

NO, we are not blaming josh @ excelerate. people like him make this forum possible and allow us to modify our cars and get parts at an EXCELLENT price. Insurance is investigating the problem, as the car has ALREADY had two faulty master cylinders. Josh, i apoligize for even mentioning you did the install, as it lead to all this unneccesary speculations and accusations.

Spoke with insurance today, car is for sure a total loss. An expert is going tomorrow to check out and evaluate the brakes on the car and see what happens.


stillhere, you only got $18,500??? My insurance company is talking like $30,000 + tax + $1000 in custom parts - my deductible. i should be coasting off with $32-33,000. I owe honda $22k still.


As for the next car..... we will see..... =)

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

one of my main concerns is... yes, the car has had faulty master cylinders before.... now usually, they would look towards Acura as it being there fault...

but.... the addition of the BBK surely doesnt help my situation, as i for sure, voided the warranty on the entire brake system just 5 days ago when i installed the BBK....

Also, progressive promises me to have a check in 6 days or less...

I hate cars

Wow, sorry to hear. I'm keeping my car in the garage since we've had similar luck with our black TLs.

As for the ABS, I don't think it would let you completely lock the wheels even with bigger brakes. Even with the same piston area, you get more leverage on the bigger rotors so less force should be required. Even so, they pulse so there shouldn't be an all out skid. In the end it comes down to the traction of the tires, not the size of the brakes.

I have noticed with the bigger and better tires, my ABS is a little conservative. I can stop the car faster without ABS and I've proven that with measurements. One trick is not to slam the pedal to the floor with better brakes/tires. Keep just enough pressure to where you might feel a pulse or two but not full ABS.

Progressive treated me well when it came to my claim. Being honest and taking money out of the wrong account 3 times was a different story. Good luck!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Anyone who has a 6MT and another car altogether can understand what Josh is trying to say.

I continually have to remind myself what vehicle I am driving because the stopping power of the Acura Brembo's is so much more powerful than what's in my Pilot, not to mention the difference in weight.

It must be even more apparent with a BBK like Rotora's.

We really need to give Josh a break. We tend to try and find scapegoats for anything that goes wrong and the internet is a great place to mouth off, substantiated or not. In all my dealings with Josh, he has always been very good even when I was less than patient.

Also, the fact ACCURATEin has so many miles on the same BBK really seems to point away from any compatibility issues. AND the fact that BLACKURA has had brake issues since the car was new points to something wrong from the start.

Based on the last point, it might have been a mistake to add something like that to an already shaky subsystem. I'm not putting blame here and I probably would have done the same thing if I had that kind of cash. Hindsight is 20/20.

I've messed around with brakes since I was a teenager and it never hit home until I saw this accident.

But based on the damage and outcome at 50mph, this car seems to be the car to be in when something like this does happen.

BTW, I would be devastated as well. This is the first car I truly love to drive. I've said it before, my wife comments about the look on my face whenever we're driving it.

timmahh

The brembos are factory and the required adjustments to the calculations and algorithims used by ABS/EBD/VSA/TCS have been calculated and checked numerous times by the factory before being put onto the road. Yes, the factory Brembos have more stopping power, but that increased brake force is paired with the required software and/or hardware changes to make the system work like the standard brakes on the TL.

What if Acura put a disclaimer in your TL saying "This vehicle features an upgraded Brembo front brake system to increase your braking power. This system may adversely affect the way ABS and other safety features on your new vehicle perform. In the event of a lockup or loss of control due to these high performance brakes Acura will not be held liable."

I don't think you would buy that car. You shouldn't have to remind yourself not to use your brakes as much or as hard because they are bigger calipers and have four pistons; they're made to be used.

I'd be weary of slamming them on full force if there was a crappy car behind me 'cause i'd hate to be rear ended! I'm not sure how many more times I have to say it but no one on here has said "It's Josh's fault". After talking to Blackura a little it sounds like this might fall on the factory system, ultimately all that matters is 1) Everyone is ok and 2) The car gets paid for so he can buy a WDP TL!

daf9919

a co-worker and i where just looking at your pic's the other day. Sorry to here and see your loss. But i can't wait to see your New 08 TL-S.

2k3_tl

Glad to hear you came out of it ok! IT'S A MIRACLE!!!...from the look of those pictures that is. Looking forward to pictures of your new upcoming ride though!

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

no matter what car i get (acura or not) nothing will ever take the place of BLACKURA. she was one of a kind, and a neck breaker. old people, young people, everybody would always comment on the car, the mods and even the custom plates. Nothing will replace life, and i am glad me and my girlfriend are alive and in very good shape.

RIP 3.2.2006 -- 7.24.2007

2006 Acura TL. Black 'betty' as i liked to call her.
The end of an era...

SupaRookie

damn man, sucks to lose a car like that. Luckily all is well.

TwinTurbo335

Rip!

timmahh

Pull the VIN off the firewall so you have something to remember her by! (Like keeping an old dog collar ya know?)

Bearcat94

Blackura hope all turns out well. While you can't replace the time and energy you put into your car, you can find another car you'll love to to work on just as much. Hopefully an '07 or '08 TL-S.

Timmah, sorry, but you are TOTALLY missing the point Excelerate and KN_TL are trying to make. They are saying the DRIVER has a learning curve (i.e. different brake force feel/application) with the BBK - not that the ABS has a learning curve.

I understand your question regards the Rotora "integration" with the programmed TL ABS response, but you have ZERO evidence one way or the other regarding what R&D Rotora did (or didn't do) when developing these brakes for the TL.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

CleanCL. i may take you up on your offer. i was thinking of having her towed to my house to remove the rest of the parts. its a salvage yard now. the car is completely undriveable....

i still have to pull the alarm and the exhaust. the coilovers i dont think i will be able to get, because you need an impact gun and probably a spring compressor to get the OEM suspension on. PM me if you can and we'll talk.